I predict spamming abuse!
Helena in DOA5U
- Thread starter Omegan Eckhart
- Start date
I predict spamming abuse!
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
Oh really? That's pretty cool that she might still have the option to do them.
This game comes out the day before I start school, so I'll be in my room literally the whole day testing also! >Who needs food, water, education or care when you have DOA5U? lol
Lets hope the game works on release day then ^_^
XxSakuraLuvaxX
Active Member
YES. Helena + fancy dress (doad white dress? doa4?) + curls = EEEEEEEEEP!
Rawbietussin
Well-Known Member
I would love that very much. It's high time that she has such. She's probably the only rich, posh, elegant fighter without that hair option.
ninjaguy446
Well-Known Member
Helena excels at using the low 'bokuho' stance to smoothly evade
her opponent's attacks, before choosing
the perfect moment to launch devastating counters.
http://teamninja-studio.com/doa5/ultimate/us/home.html#characters
Bokuho buff anyone? LOL
her opponent's attacks, before choosing
the perfect moment to launch devastating counters.
http://teamninja-studio.com/doa5/ultimate/us/home.html#characters
Bokuho buff anyone? LOL
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
It's always said that lol
ninjaguy446
Well-Known Member
Rawbietussin
Well-Known Member
That description is very understated now, sadly. She'd have to do
just for that to happen.
KwonJigglypuff
Well-Known Member
I think that new piguaquan kick she has in the trailer could work with 99K. That's an intuitive imput. I love that move so much already. It reminds me of Zafina somehow.
XxSakuraLuvaxX
Active Member
I think something a trade with buff/nerf would be to switch 33P4P with her old DOA4 one but give her BKO a buff by letting it duck low hitting mids..
I know that Hajin said that Helena players don't use her juggle potential properly (high launch 33P 33P4P.. wtf?) So having a new launcher that must be used at max threshold for a good juggle would sort of help the players think of what to use.
Letting BKO 22 duck (low mids?) would make them think of what move to use to punish with depending on the speed/recovery of the move.
On a personal note, I still want PP2KK and PP2K2 BKO. I don't care about PP2KP, as that made her juggles too easy.
(once again, PP2K2 BKO 4PKK)
a buff by letting it duck low hitting mids..I know that Hajin said that Helena players don't use her juggle potential properly (high launch 33P 33P4P.. wtf?) So having a new launcher that must be used at max threshold for a good juggle would sort of help the players think of what to use.
Letting BKO 22 duck (low mids?) would make them think of what move to use to punish with depending on the speed/recovery of the move.
On a personal note, I still want PP2KK and PP2K2 BKO. I don't care about PP2KP, as that made her juggles too easy.
(once again, PP2K2 BKO 4PKK)
KwonJigglypuff
Well-Known Member
I wish (in air) 7PKK. 33P4P could work all the time. It only connects near walls..
XxSakuraLuvaxX
Active Member
It works weirdly for me, it mostly depends on your stance with which launcher-
like whether I use BKO 66P, BKO 6K, or just 6K
That mid kick Helena has is definitely a new move. It makes no sense to replace a high kick like 8k that is so imbedded in her moveset (bko 6ppk, bko f+k, 4pp8k, BF pp4pp8k) to be changed to just a standalone mid kick. (If it was changed, that would be a nerf beyond belief, which I don't think TN is trying to do.) It will probably be executed by doing 236k or by doing 46k. Helena is lacking in the poke department when it comes to mid kick pokes, so I am hoping this is pretty safe on block. As for her new bounce move, I see it being either 6p+k p, or 6p+k p+k.
Out of all the characters they have shown, I have seen the most new moves being performed by Helena (a total of 3 new moves, compared to 1 or 2 new moves from the rest of the cast, with the exception of Kasumi.) I am VERY cautious about this. I like the buffs, but it seems to me that they are giving them to her, because they are taking something away. I know it will be her PFT game. Especially since two of these new moves come together to make a new combo that we have never seen before. I saw her do 33p4p in an E3 video, so I know that is still there, but it may not behave the same way in a juggle. For example, it may behave the same way as the low kick in BKO 4pk2k does in a juggle, by pushing the opponent away, and not allowing an immediate force tech to be done. Like what was suggested before, I would rather her 2k force tech than the situation that I just mentioned.
I think that instead of giving her her old 33p4p from DOA4 (the moves animation is so ugly compared to her DOA5 version) They should borrow a tactic that they used in DOA4, but took out of DOA5: if you use 33p twice in a row in a juggle, the second 33p would end the juggle by forcing the opponent to flip in the air.
On a side note: many players are unaware that Helena has the tools that she does because she is meant to be an offensive character. (Hence why she is incredibly safe for the most part.) If Helena were meant to be defensive, she would have sabakis, and parries. These tools have been given to characters such as Kasumi, and Leifang, Bayman, Eliot and Gen Fu because though they can be used offensively, without these tools, these characters' ability to run the match is severely strained. (with the exception of Gen Fu, because IMO he does not need parries) Imagine Christie with parries? it would be game over for everyone involved. This is why Helena has her bokuho duck. It is an offensive move (some may say defensive), which allows her to briefly duck down when the player senses that their pressure may be waning, in order to allow the opponent to attack, and for Helena to successfully counter attack and to continue the pressure. And even though her PFT game was clearly an accident on the part of TN (remember that Helena was considered low tier before players realized that she could do this), if they remove it, they are removing a very important pressure tool. This is why if they remove it, they should bring back her bokuho duck to DOA2 levels. It may sound ridiculous to some, but in the grand scheme of the game, I don't think it does. In the right conditions, a character like Leifang can take away almost half your life with a successful mid kick counter, and that's guaranteed. Helena's bokuho duck may guarantee certain things, but it is on a case by case basis. Also, timing the duck, and using it effectively is much more difficult than relying on her PFT for pressure. So I would completely support the removal of Helena's PFT game if they restored her bokuho. Thoughts?
Out of all the characters they have shown, I have seen the most new moves being performed by Helena (a total of 3 new moves, compared to 1 or 2 new moves from the rest of the cast, with the exception of Kasumi.) I am VERY cautious about this. I like the buffs, but it seems to me that they are giving them to her, because they are taking something away. I know it will be her PFT game. Especially since two of these new moves come together to make a new combo that we have never seen before. I saw her do 33p4p in an E3 video, so I know that is still there, but it may not behave the same way in a juggle. For example, it may behave the same way as the low kick in BKO 4pk2k does in a juggle, by pushing the opponent away, and not allowing an immediate force tech to be done. Like what was suggested before, I would rather her 2k force tech than the situation that I just mentioned.
I think something a trade with buff/nerf would be to switch 33P4P with her old DOA4 one but give her BKO
I know that Hajin said that Helena players don't use her juggle potential properly (high launch 33P 33P4P.. wtf?) So having a new launcher that must be used at max threshold for a good juggle would sort of help the players think of what to use.
I think that instead of giving her her old 33p4p from DOA4 (the moves animation is so ugly compared to her DOA5 version) They should borrow a tactic that they used in DOA4, but took out of DOA5: if you use 33p twice in a row in a juggle, the second 33p would end the juggle by forcing the opponent to flip in the air.
On a side note: many players are unaware that Helena has the tools that she does because she is meant to be an offensive character. (Hence why she is incredibly safe for the most part.) If Helena were meant to be defensive, she would have sabakis, and parries. These tools have been given to characters such as Kasumi, and Leifang, Bayman, Eliot and Gen Fu because though they can be used offensively, without these tools, these characters' ability to run the match is severely strained. (with the exception of Gen Fu, because IMO he does not need parries) Imagine Christie with parries? it would be game over for everyone involved. This is why Helena has her bokuho duck. It is an offensive move (some may say defensive), which allows her to briefly duck down when the player senses that their pressure may be waning, in order to allow the opponent to attack, and for Helena to successfully counter attack and to continue the pressure. And even though her PFT game was clearly an accident on the part of TN (remember that Helena was considered low tier before players realized that she could do this), if they remove it, they are removing a very important pressure tool. This is why if they remove it, they should bring back her bokuho duck to DOA2 levels. It may sound ridiculous to some, but in the grand scheme of the game, I don't think it does. In the right conditions, a character like Leifang can take away almost half your life with a successful mid kick counter, and that's guaranteed. Helena's bokuho duck may guarantee certain things, but it is on a case by case basis. Also, timing the duck, and using it effectively is much more difficult than relying on her PFT for pressure. So I would completely support the removal of Helena's PFT game if they restored her bokuho. Thoughts?
DR2K
Well-Known Member
I believe Helena is getting all these new moves is because moveset wise she was one of the last characters added in DOA5 and got the least amount of new animations/tools.
I have a feeling the PFT Helena players are going to be in for a rude awakaning come DOA5U, but she should have the DOA5 tools she was lacking to componsate for it. She'll overall be a lower tier character, but a very solid one. Especially if she still has her NH low and crushes as they are.
I have a feeling the PFT Helena players are going to be in for a rude awakaning come DOA5U, but she should have the DOA5 tools she was lacking to componsate for it. She'll overall be a lower tier character, but a very solid one. Especially if she still has her NH low and crushes as they are.
Helena received a pretty hefty amount of new animations. The problem is that instead of being added to her moveset, they simply replaced older animations. That's how she got the short end of the stick.
DR2K
Well-Known Member
Hmm... she got some new string enders. Lost a few integral strings too.
ninjaguy446
Well-Known Member
Do you guys think Team Ninja would even consider the return of her BKO FT even though they nerfed FT's? I think it would be cool of we got that back.
I love how her handslaps animation is. It looks so elegant, although it felt silly to use it for every ender. Good thing I'll be using it a lot less in DOA5U!
I love how her handslaps animation is. It looks so elegant, although it felt silly to use it for every ender. Good thing I'll be using it a lot less in DOA5U!
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
Do you guys think Team Ninja would even consider the return of her BKO FT even though they nerfed FT's? I think it would be cool of we got that back.
I love how her handslaps animation is. It looks so elegant, although it felt silly to use it for every ender. Good thing I'll be using it a lot less in DOA5U!
Her BKO force tech was way better than her PFT is. The frame advantage from that was absolutely mental. I don't want that to return, I honestly want all her brain dead tech removed and replaced with strong but highly situational tools that only good players can use.
I miss the old days when you could tell the dedicated Helena players apart from the scrubs. Nowadays we all look the same :/
DR2K
Well-Known Member
It was mostly dependant on her BKO throw. Whereas PFT could be done off of anything easily. At the same time there was nothing guaranteed off of either tech.
Omegan Eckhart
Well-Known Member
Nothing was guaranteed that's true but Helena had enough frame advantage back then that she could do anything she wanted whereas now if the opponent mashes on 6P they can beat out most of her options if she doesn't go for her fastest pokes.
In DOA4 I think I counted about 40 something guaranteed force tech's with Helena. As long as you knew which launcher you had used and which weight class you were juggling you could guarantee force tech from any launcher. Something like 9K on CH on a lightweight character then do 8P > BKO 4PK > 2K (that's just an example I don't think that is an actual one, I can't really remember any of them now). That took serious work and skill to land as each one was almost character specific, now it's just launch 33P4P > 6P on everything.
Losing her BKO throw FT was a good trade for getting her PFT on every launch. Still though her FT game was far superior in DOA4 in every respect. It's just that you had to be really good to do it back then whereas now anyone can do it with no real practice.