How to be disrespectful without being dumb (when playing DOA of course)

[Camel with 2 thumbs]

So some background

I've been having long sets with a couple of high ranking players recently, and all these guys have made the same comment on my play style. they say i play too respectfully and i need to disrespect more. like a dum ass i didn't ask what exactly they meant by that so im turning to you guys and gals on this site.

How do you be disrespectful without putting yourself in a crappy situation? Because when I think of someone playing disrespectfully, im thinking of hitting buttons when it's not your turn (i.e when they're hella minus), being reversal/counter happy, basically playing like you don't care. Now i can do this against people who are low level and it's very obvious what they want to do, but against better players, it much harder to get that read, so naturally i play more defensive and reactionary, and apparently, according to these guys, that's getting me killed ( I lost all of those sets btw).

So maybe there's something about disrespectful play that im completely overlooking, if you know what it is, please help me see the light!

 

[The Spine]

I mean, it's essentially going when it's not necessarily your turn or just making a random guess. For example, if I were to hit you with Kokoro's 66P, which I believe is -4, while you were blocking. If you're going to respect it you'd most likely block since there's nothing guaranteed you can punish me with. Disrespecting in this sense would just be to hit me with a 6P or whatever instead of blocking whatever string I pump out afterwards. A thing to remember is that this is DoA, right, so you can't necessarily autopilot anything because countering exists. Conversely, you don't want to be overthinking your options. Sometimes the best option is to just be a gorilla. Sometimes the best mix-up is no mix-up.

Anyway, I don't know, I'm not very good, and I never was. So, I could be wrong. This is just my opinion.

 

[UncleKitchener]

Well, pressing buttons to kill throw attempts (especially launchers) is one of them. Or you can 2P you way out of it until you've counter-conditioned your opponent to do what you think they're more likely to do based on the situation. As an example, Hayate players usually go for throw attempts after the first two initial hits or try to jab you to cause a long stun to force you to hold. Another example is to throw a Marie Rose player going for a reset with a backturned offensive hold to force them into performing their other backturned options.

There's abare too and that comes into play just like in VF. Semi-safe and safe moves can open up a lot of different avenues. It does some times depend on what character you're playing in DOA. Not all characters have good abare moves but they all have those options.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

It's pretty much abare ("Attacking when your opponent thinks you're weak", i.e. "attacking from disadvantage"), risk/reward, reads and conditioning. It's a case of knowing what your opponent will do in any given situation including when you're at disadvantage and negative frames. If you know what your opponent is gunna do when they're at advantage, you can respond accordingly (i.e. A hi-crush against a high or a sidestep against a linear mid, etc.). Abare is mostly working the risk/reward system of DOA in the sense of the potential reward versus the potential risk of punishment for your disrespectful action. For instance, GenFu's 3P is a good abare move because it hi-crushes (and even mid-crushes) a lot of potential attacks, and can induce a powerful SDS with CH 3PP. If you play overly respectfully, your playstyle is relying too much on the opponent making a mistake. A savvy opponent will catch on to this and take advantage of this static playstyle.

TL;DR

Press more buttons.

 

[Camel with 2 thumbs]

so y'all are saying need to be more buttonsy while im negative to keep my opponents weary and to keep 'em from getting throw happy while im minus, and as force says, i need to find reasonable abare buttons. it's funny cause i actually do this with certain characters (that i unfortunately don't use in long sets), but it's only cause i know they have weird moves that dodge alot of stuff.

For example, for the time i used gen fu, i didn't use 3p as an abare move, but i used the hell out of 4p+k, for some reason it reels him back alot and makes him hard to hit, so if i was in negative situation, there were times where i'd be like "screw it, let's throw this move and see what happens" and worked more times than it didn't. Honoka also has some weird crush moves that I throw out now and then in a devil may care fashion, mainly 4P+k (it's a lei fang shoulder, nuff said) and her 33p can crush highs(and some mids) surprisingly well.

 

[KasumiLover]

Just don't be afraid to take risks, like for instance me and Panic-Sensei were doing mirror Kasumi match long ago in January and the match was 2-2, and I realized I was respecting his free cancels and delays way to much. So during the final match, something just clicked inside me: He started free canceling and trying to open me with 4P so instead of standing and guarding like he wanted, I immediately 6Ped him into stun and was able to get a perfect on him to close the match. :-D I still don't know exactly what I was on when that final match happened, but that taught me that you can't let the opponent pressure you, you gotta sometimes bite the risk bullet to get an advantage.

 

[UncleKitchener]

Hitting someone in between string delays also counts as straight up disrespecting. Doing this with slower characters has a big impact. It mentally stifles your opponent and forces either more simplistic or extreme attempts at trying to get into your head.

 

[WAZAAAAA]

to be disrepectful, you need to connect your microphone and insult their mothers as much as possible after losing or winning any match

 

[Camel with 2 thumbs]

@Force_of_Nature "If you play overly respectfully, your playstyle is relying too much on the opponent making a mistake", this sentence got me thinking, because looking back at my play style alot of it is punishing bad decisions. This also explains why I struggle hard against better players who play it really safe and aren't giving me obvious stuff to capitalize on. I have been quick poked to death many a time and every time it happens im like "dafaq was i supposed to do about that ?"

to be disrepectful, you need to connect your microphone and insult their mothers as much as possible after losing or winning any match

of course, that's what i've been missing! unfortunately i can't plug in my microphone into my controller, Hori pad doesn't have a headphone jack built in ;<

 

[WAZAAAAA]

of course, that's what i've been missing! unfortunately i can't plug in my microphone into my controller, Hori pad doesn't have a headphone jack built in ;<

unleash the hatemails

 

[UncleKitchener]

@Force_of_Nature "If you play overly respectfully, your playstyle is relying too much on the opponent making a mistake", this sentence got me thinking, because looking back at my play style alot of it is punishing bad decisions. This also explains why I struggle hard against better players who play it really safe and aren't giving me obvious stuff to capitalize on. I have been quick poked to death many a time and every time it happens im like "dafaq was i supposed to do about that ?"

You do have OHs. They ruin it for fuzzy-guard-happy players. Since there are no fuzzy guard option selects in this game, it's pretty much the choice between standing, crouching or getting hit when throwing. Pretty reliable unless you're just plain in the negative after a guardbreak. That's when you go for crushes or big moves/stun starters.

Or just hold. That's pretty disrespectful. Do anything except standing still if you really want to be disrespectful.

 

[Brute]

The basic idea is that most "experienced" players know what "the right thing" is to do in each scenario. If you opt for the "smartest" decision all the time, they can easily predict what that is, and will counter it accordingly. This is why "just fuzzy" is a problematic response to tricky scenarios. It's always your safest bet, and if the opponent recognizes that you're a "respectful" player they will bank on you defaulting to that approach.

Respectively, you'll notice that you get popped with some really stupid shit. For example, Leifang will toss out some braindead nonsense and you'll block it leaving her at negative. You may assume Leifang will play "respectfully" and switch to the defensive, but in reality she may just jump straight into a subsequent mash with some stupid sabaki attached, knowing that at light negative it would be smartest for her opponent to retaliate with a quick mid/high poke. Thus, a disrespectful approach would be to use a throw after she puts herself at a safe negative. It's not "smart" in the conventional sense, but it's this kind of fuckery that people are ultimately working with in the meta. This is why the "on paper" stuff often plays out different than what is actually happening in matches.

 

[Camel with 2 thumbs]

The basic idea is that most "experienced" players know what "the right thing" is to do in each scenario. If you opt for the "smartest" decision all the time, they can easily predict what that is, and will counter it accordingly. This is why "just fuzzy" is a problematic response to tricky scenarios. It's always your safest bet, and if the opponent recognizes that you're a "respectful" player they will bank on you defaulting to that approach.

Respectively, you'll notice that you get popped with some really stupid shit. For example, Leifang will toss out some braindead nonsense and you'll block it leaving her at negative. You may assume Leifang will play "respectfully" and switch to the defensive, but in reality she'll may just jump straight into a subsequent mash with some stupid sabaki attached, knowing that at light negative it would be smartest for her opponent to retaliate with a quick mid/high poke. Thus, a disrespectful approach would be to use a throw after she puts herself at a safe negative. It's not "smart" in the conventional sense, but it's this kind of fuckery that people are ultimately working with in the meta. This is why the "on paper" stuff often plays out different than what is actually happening in matches.

So if your opponent thinks you're gonna play smart, do the opposite to throw them off, I think Alex Valle made some quote saying something to this effect "Do 2 smart things and then 1 dumb thing to throw your opponent off", or something like that

It's funny cause your post reminded me of a match i had not too long ago, I was ft5'ing some random in a lobby, and it went down to last game last round, I had a pixel left, and i needed just 1 combo to kill him. I knocked him into a cliffhanger, I went for the strike/throw 50/50, I chose throw, he died, and i won the set. and the FIRST thing the tells me when the set is over is this

"Why did you go for the grab? that was the stupidest thing you could of done in that situation"

my response

"because I knew that you thought i was gonna go for the smarter option, that's why I went for the grab, ggs"

Im sure you all know how that works out, if you go for the cliffhanger strike and they guess right, you both live, if they guess wrong, you 're rewarded with damage. but if you go for the cliffhanger grab and they guess right, the attacker takes damage, so when you got low health, on paper it makes more sense to go for the strike, so that's why i went for the grab

I guess it all comes down to getting a read on your opponents' game plan and thinking 2 steps ahead, and like i said before, when fighting people who make their gameplan very obvious, thinking 2 steps and countering their plan is easy. But when I fight people who make their game plan very ambiguous, that's when i default into the mode of "I can't make a read on this guy, so im just gonna play a reactionary game against this person and see what happens" and 9 times out of 10, it doesn't work. And in the words of Kariya Kagetoki

"...In martial arts you should use your head more, if you only use your instincts and reflexes, you are limited"

Just re-watched samurai champloo, forgive me

 

[Mr Armageddon X]

Embrace the taunting my friend. I see your main is Nyotengu, good choice, queen of taunting. As a rule I always abide to the following at the end of a round:

1st round win - "Come on now, over here" taunt
2nd round win - "I've only been toying with you" taunt
final round win - "I'm weary of your empty boasting"

Then either Great or "finished already" win pose. If knocked down face up when 2 rounds down throw in the "have mercy" taunt too.

 

[Camel with 2 thumbs]

I know this thread is old but imma post this any, so i ran into this one guy last night, played a bunch of games with him, he random selected me for about 10 games, and when it was all said and done, he had this to say
http://imgur.com/OwzIu80
I mean, the dude knew what he was doing, at the very least he knew max damage combos with 10 different characters, but imma take this as a bit of personal victory on the road to holding block less and being more active with my defense

 

[HHH816]

ok i give you one idea on how to annoy them.

for example..they choose kasumi, you choose hayabusa. you beat them

2nd time you choose kasumi, they choose any character..you beat them

just choose any character which they last use.. repeat over 9000 times