Jann Lee changes

Gurimmjaw

Well-Known Member
Cleveland, OH
Main Character
Jann Lee
PSN ID
Gurimmjaw
#1
Hello everyone, Jann Lee player here. I was talking with my good friend @Darkslay about some changes for Jann Lee that would be nice well it first started out as talking about a move becoming a normal from one of his movesets and I was thinking maybe we can get some changes to happen for a future patch.

Here are some of the things we suggested:

- The second hit of k4k and 3k4k becoming a normal move and assigned as 44k. This move would be very beautiful as a normal move as he would have access to another range move.

-2p becoming neutral on hit again. This would help a lot and can follow up but with it being -1 on hit as it is now he can't really follow up afterwards against characters with fast strikes unless they are slower characters. I think he is really the only character who has a 2p that -1 on hit.

-6k becoming 12 frames like it was back in vanilla.

-33p becoming a true high crush. As we know Jann Lee does not really have a good high crush at all. 2p is of course your generic high crush, and 2h+k is too slow, and 3p+k is just really risky have if blocked they can follow up with a move easily. 33p would be nice as a high crush may not be crazy like Gen Fu's 3p, but at least would be better than Jann Lee's 3p+k

- throw added in dragon gunner stance. I was talking with Ryujin before about some of Jann Lee moves and said him having a grab would be good.

If anyone agrees or disagrees, or simply have some suggestions please post here and let us know so I can add to the first post. Lets try to get TN to take notice so Jann Lee does not get unnoticed any longer.

@Darkslay
@RyuJin
@DroWin_MaN
@eks2009
@RiBu
 
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Darkslay

Well-Known Member
Dragon's Gate
Main Character
Jann Lee
PSN ID
Darkslayxz
#2
Hello everyone, Jann Lee player here. I was talking with my good friend @Darkslay about some changes for Jann Lee that would be nice well it first started out as talking about a move becoming a normal from one of his movesets and I was thinking maybe we can get some changes to happen for a future patch.

Here are some of the things we suggested:

- The second hit of k4k and 3k4k becoming a normal move and assigned as 44k. This move would be very beautiful as a normal move as he would have access to another normal move.

-2p becoming neutral on hit again. This would help a lot and can follow up but with it being -1 on hit as it is now he can't really follow up afterwards against characters with fast strikes unless they are slower characters. I think he is really the only character who has a 2p that -1 on hit.

-6k becoming 12 frames like it was back in vanilla.

-33p becoming a true high crush. As we know Jann Lee does not really have a good high crush at all. 2p is of course your generic high crush, and 2h+k is too slow, and 3p+k is just really risky have if blocked they can follow up with a move easily. 33p would be nice as a high crush may not be crazy like Gen Fu's 3p, but at least would be better than Jann Lee's 3p+k

- throw added in dragon gunner stance. I was talking with Ryujin before about some of Jann Lee moves and said him having a grab would be good.

If anyone agrees or disagrees, or simply have some suggestions please post here and let us know so I can add to the first post. Lets try to get TN to take notice so Jann Lee does not get unnoticed any longer.

@Darkslay
@RyuJin
@DroWin_MaN
@eks2009
@RiBu
Nice, good going bro. Lets see if we can get something going here.

I'll give my feedback on these changes.

- 44K was the main thing we talked about, having that long reaching (2.04m) safe poke as a normal move would be a blessing, i would be fine without the P followup too tbh. It would just be a really good spacing tool.

- 2P would be big for him, his neutral game is not bad as it is but it would be great for him, that was one of the main ways they nerfed him, and i think so, i don't think anyone else has a -1 2P.

- I see this one pretty unlikely, he already has 5K as a long reaching, safe, NH stunning i12 high kick, having another i12 poke would make him a little too good IMO.

- While i would like this one, i feel 3P would be better, but maybe from a balance stand point 33P would be better since it would be unsafe on block unless charged.

- A throw of off DS would change how Jann Lee is played almost entirely, the only way i see this being balanced would be for the throw to either be breakable or a 2 part throw. This change would be insane though.

Now for what i would like to see.

- For Jann Lee to get 1P9KK, similarly to Lei Fang's 33PKK, these two already share an amount of moves, it would be good to see this one as well, either that or 1PH+K, it would be a low crush into a high crush, H+K is unsafe so i see this one being balanced.

- For 246P and all of its variants to become crouching moves, this would be a tame way of improving Jann Lee's crushing game IMO.

- For 9K and 214P to become true mids, this always struck me as weird since these moves always looked like true mids to me but they aren't, they would be good for forcetech setups.

- For DS 6P to go from -12 to -7/8, i would really like this one to become semi safe, its hard having only 1 safe option from DS. :(

That's all i got, whether we get at least 1 one of these or multiple, i would be happy, Jann Lee needs at least 1 substancial buff IMO. I will also call these people, see what they have to say.

@KING JAIMY
@Jefffcore
@Kberry14
 
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KING JAIMY

Well-Known Member
Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Main Character
Rig
Gamertag
KING JAIMY
3DS Friend Code
5086-3025-4977
PSN ID
King_Jaimy
Steam
KING JAIMY
#3
It's very hard to come up with changes for a character in my opinion but I noticed Jann Lee doesn't have a 10 frame throw. Maybe they could give him a 4T which is usually a characters' 10 frame throw? It helps his punishment game a little better so he can punish -11 or -12 moves on block with a more damaging throw.
 
Likes: Darkslay

RiBu

Active Member
Main Character
Lisa
#4
I think a throw/low out of dragon gunner stance would be okay...it's something that's normalized for the most part in this game, so I guess give it to him as well...outside of that I don't think he needs anything. Character is basically as good as he should/can be within the game and its meta from what I see in videos...
 
Likes: Gurimmjaw

Jefffcore

Well-Known Member
Mt. Pleasant, ON, Canada
Main Character
Mila
Gamertag
Jefffcore
#5
I think you should look at the tools he has, and how they work with the way he plays first. You also need to look at what the changes will do to matchups.

Are you wanting these changes because you want him to play like other characters, or because you want him to play a better Jann? If it's the former, you might want to just play other characters.

I don't think he needs a high crush in the way of 33p. He has fast movement, and a back-step. Unlike Ayane (who also has fast movement and good crushes) he has an 11i mid. The characters with good crushes are usually slow (other than the odd one like Lei Fang). On the other hand, if he's being pressured and put at negative he has a little trouble. I'd like 1p to crush like it did in 4, personally.

2p might be -1 on NH, but it's +4 on CH.

I'm not convinced a "44k" is something he needs, or should have. He's already got 3k, k(4k), 6p+k, 4h+k, etc.

I can get behind 6k being 12i again.

Not sure how I feel about DS. The only time I feel you NEED to go into it is from 6h+k after a DG, in which case it would be nice. Any other time it's just a mix up for attacks after you've gotten a stun; you never need to actually use it.
 
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Darkslay

Well-Known Member
Dragon's Gate
Main Character
Jann Lee
PSN ID
Darkslayxz
#6
I think you should look at the tools he has, and how they work with the way he plays first. You also need to look at what the changes will do to matchups.
Most of the changes wouldn't really affect matchups really, types of stun and frame alteration is what affects matchups most of the time, we didn't suggest any of that.

Are you wanting these changes because you want him to play like other characters, or because you want him to play a better Jann? If it's the former, you might want to just play other characters.
I don't really get your point here. Play a better Jann? Also why would i want to play other characters if i already like my character? These are just small changes that would help the character's playstyle.

I don't think he needs a high crush in the way of 33p. He has fast movement, and a back-step. Unlike Ayane (who also has fast movement and good crushes) he has an 11i mid. The characters with good crushes are usually slow (other than the odd one like Lei Fang). On the other hand, if he's being pressured and put at negative he has a little trouble. I'd like 1p to crush like it did in 4, personally.
Other fast characters have amazing evasive abilities and moderate crushes, I fail to see your point here. We're talking about moves that visually look like they should be crushes, but they aren't, weirdly enough

2p might be -1 on NH, but it's +4 on CH.
A lot of characters get a +4 on CH with their 2Ps, same as a lot of characters get a +9 in a LV3 stun. Irrelevant.

I'm not convinced a "44k" is something he needs, or should have. He's already got 3k, k(4k), 6p+k, 4h+k, etc.
Because of 3K4K and K4K we came up with 44K, both of those strings can easily be held on reaction, same is the case with 4H+K, 6P+K is good, but its still semi safe, all of those moves are good, no doubt about that, but they're not his best spacing tools, by far.

Not sure how I feel about DS. The only time I feel you NEED to go into it is from 6h+k after a DG, in which case it would be nice. Any other time it's just a mix up for attacks after you've gotten a stun; you never need to actually use it.
Untrue, a lot of Jann Lee players seem to believe this misconception, DS has two main uses, to apply pressure and to play keep out, you did mention its first use, however this stance shines at a distance, where the opponent is forced to respect your space. Have you seen how good 6K is in DS?
 
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Gurimmjaw

Well-Known Member
Cleveland, OH
Main Character
Jann Lee
PSN ID
Gurimmjaw
#8
- 2P would be big for him, his neutral game is not bad as it is but it would be great for him, that was one of the main ways they nerfed him, and i think so, i don't think anyone else has a -1 2P.
Yeah thats what im saying 2p being neutral on hit would be nice. Can't follow up really after 2p since you are negative. Think this only good right now against the slower characters (Nyotengu, Leon, Bass, etc), but just about everyone has a 2p that either neutral on hit or plus advantage.

see this one pretty unlikely, he already has 5K as a long reaching, safe, NH stunning i12 high kick, having another i12 poke would make him a little too good IMO.
I do not know about that man and I don't think him having another i12 poke would make him too good. He had this in vanilla. So him having this again which he orignally had in the first place wouldn't be a bad thing.


While i would like this one, i feel 3P would be better, but maybe from a balance stand point 33P would be better since it would be unsafe on block unless charged.
I can see why you would say that since this here is a stun, and would probably help with certain match ups, but from a balance point of view probably as you said 33p would be better. 3p would be kind of crazy as a high crush/ 1p wouldn't be too bad since it not a deep type of stun. I know 1p does crush high's from certain points, but not true crush as like 3p+K which is what we want which is why I do suggest 33p since it not too crazy.

A throw of off DS would change how Jann Lee is played almost entirely, the only way i see this being balanced would be for the throw to either be breakable or a 2 part throw. This change would be insane though.
I don't think it would be insane. Even just a low out of DS would be nice so either would do. For the grab it wouldn't be a reset grab or anything and they can make the damage low coming out at 30 points of damage. Though I would agree to the throw being breakable.

I still find it weird that Honoka gets to have Jann Lee's 4pp from DS but Jann Lee does not get that option.



For Jann Lee to get 1P9KK, similarly to Lei Fang's 33PKK, these two already share an amount of moves, it would be good to see this one as well, either that or 1PH+K, it would be a low crush into a high crush, H+K is unsafe so i see this one being balanced.
Yeah I remember we talked about that Jann Lee getting that I woudn't mind him getting that but balance wise how would it affect how he is played?

- For 246P and all of its variants to become crouching moves, this would be a tame way of improving Jann Lee's crushing game IMO.
That would be great for 246P to be a high crush, though I thought it kinda was but that would be better than 3p+k since it does a bit more damage.



-
For DS 6P to go from -12 to -7/8, i would really like this one to become semi safe, its hard having only 1 safe option from DS. :(
Well I don't think the options from DS need to be safer. Though don't forget he does have 2 safe options actually 6K and P.






Are you wanting these changes because you want him to play like other characters, or because you want him to play a better Jann? If it's the former, you might want to just play other characters.
Definitely don't want him playing like other characters, so I like the way he plays right now. What @Darkslay and I are saying is just some of the changes would help a bit.

I don't think he needs a high crush in the way of 33p. He has fast movement, and a back-step. Unlike Ayane (who also has fast movement and good crushes) he has an 11i mid. The characters with good crushes are usually slow (other than the odd one like Lei Fang). On the other hand, if he's being pressured and put at negative he has a little trouble. I'd like 1p to crush like it did in 4, personally.
I wouldn't say the characters with good crushes are usually slow. There also Kasumi and as far as I can tell has quite the number of crushes though there are also characters who are fast with not that many good crushes too like Rig for example.


Jann Lee having a 33p type of crush would not be a bad thing I would think that would be better than 3P+K....and we know that one is pretty bad. I like the 1P you suggest and think that would be a good option. Can't really comment on how it was in DoA4 since I didn't really play DoA4.

2p might be -1 on NH, but it's +4 on CH.
While that is true, however every character also has +4 on CH or even more around +6.

I'm not convinced a "44k" is something he needs, or should have. He's already got 3k, k(4k), 6p+k, 4h+k, etc.
K4K and 3K4K are nice, but everyone knows the follow ups to these moves so it not hard reacting to them. So having a normal out of the 2nd hit would be nice.

6P+K is good and has its uses and has decent range.

4H+K I don't think that well outside of stun although it does have a follow up





I can get behind 6k being 12i again.
Im glad we both agree with that.





I would rather have a parry/sabaki instead of a throw from his DS. I know he can do Dragon Counter from his DS, but that seems useless to me. Plus they should make his DG more powerful like this pic here. I call it DG Version 2. Where JL knee goes though his face and makes the opponent go into a LV3 critical stun lol. :confused::confused::confused: View attachment 13324
A throw from DS or even a low for example would help the mix up game for him in DS. He doesn't really actually need a sabaki. His counter I believe is one from his taunts and can be used in DS stance as well. I can see why you see it useless as I view it as the same. It only holds mid kicks and the damage isn't that great when the regular mid kick hold does more damage. Im surprised it doesn't also hold mid punches. Though either way not a move that great as it is now.
 
Likes: Darkslay

Jefffcore

Well-Known Member
Mt. Pleasant, ON, Canada
Main Character
Mila
Gamertag
Jefffcore
#9
My point was just that 33p would be out of character; It would launch. It would be unsafe at least.

If you use 2p to interrupt strings instead of trying to pressure with it, you have advantage. That was my point.

I assume they made his crushes ass to put more focus on his spacing and dragon gunner to open people up. There is a reason they suck. I also assume that's why his safe attacks knock people away.

The way I see it, if you give him better crushes, he starts to play differently.

This "44k" would almost make the rest of his ranged pokes useless. He a mid poke in 3k, , a high poke in k, and a whiff punisher in 6p+k. K also has a high follow up, not just the mid.
44k would just be all those in one.

I'm really just trying to look at the big picture.

What id really like, is a mid that's a little less high risk/low reward.

You can interrupt the DS anytime you go into it on block, so I'm not entirely sure what you mean when you say keeping pressure.
 
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Darkslay

Well-Known Member
Dragon's Gate
Main Character
Jann Lee
PSN ID
Darkslayxz
#10
I do not know about that man and I don't think him having another i12 poke would make him too good. He had this in vanilla. So him having this again which he orignally had in the first place wouldn't be a bad thing.
He was top tier in vanilla bro, there were various reasons for that.

I don't think it would be insane. Even just a low out of DS would be nice so either would do. For the grab it wouldn't be a reset grab or anything and they can make the damage low coming out at 30 points of damage. Though I would agree to the throw being breakable.

I still find it weird that Honoka gets to have Jann Lee's 4pp from DS but Jann Lee does not get that option.
It would man, people would actually be afraid of holding because of it, dealing with DS would become an educated read, not just a random guess. And 30 is big, its chip damage, like every time you land a 66K.

And yeah its very weird, he would benefit from it a lot.

Yeah I remember we talked about that Jann Lee getting that I woudn't mind him getting that but balance wise how would it affect how he is played?
It would affect it him a little, using 1P mid stun would be incentivised since there would be a launcher associated with it. But not his core gameplan.

i you use 2p to interrupt strings instead of trying to pressure with it, you have advantage. That was my point.
The main use of a 2P is to chip at the opponent in neutral game, rasing awareness, Jann Lee's neutral game aches because of his 2P being -1.

I assume they made his crushes ass to put more focus on his spacing and dragon gunner to open people up. There is a reason they suck. I also assume that's why his safe attacks knock people away.

The way I see it, if you give him better crushes, he starts to play differently.
This also makes no sense, His crushes already give him heavy knockdowns, and something like 33P would only grant him a launch, not a stun or frame advantage, he already uses his crushes to impose his spacing game. His playstyle wouldn't change, whatsoever.

This "44k" would almost make the rest of his ranged pokes useless. He a mid poke in 3k, , a high poke in k, and a whiff punisher in 6p+k. K also has a high follow up, not just the mid.
44k would just be all those in one.
Why would it make them useless? 44K would be, mid, unable to follow up and non tracking, you would need his other pokes for this reasons.

You can interrupt the DS anytime you go into it on block, so I'm not entirely sure what you mean when you say keeping pressure.
Pressure in stun that is, oki situations also go in favor of DS.
 

Jefffcore

Well-Known Member
Mt. Pleasant, ON, Canada
Main Character
Mila
Gamertag
Jefffcore
#11
How are his current crushes anything like what 33p would be like. 33p would launch, allowing oki or a decent chunk if health.

How can you say something is meant to work a certain way, when it doesn't work very well in said situation?

You don't need tracking for whiff punishment. If you read what I wrote, I said almost. He has whiff punishment, and he has pokes that do exactly what they're supposed to do. 44k would be good for poke ing, and whiff punishment together. It's only downfall would be it's linearity. It'd be just like Mila's old 4H+K (which they took away). You could throw it out over and over until someone did something about it, and switch to low sweeps or DG. You likely wouldn't need any of his other pokes (depending on your range).

Like I said he doesn't actually need to go into it in stun. Therefore, you can not go into it, then throw. Same goes for oki.
 

Darkslay

Well-Known Member
Dragon's Gate
Main Character
Jann Lee
PSN ID
Darkslayxz
#13
How are his current crushes anything like what 33p would be like. 33p would launch, allowing oki or a decent chunk if health.
3P+K does 64 damage on CH close hit, 33P would give you somewhere around 75 to 85 and even less the heavier the opponent gets, 246P already gives you 83 points on CH close hit. Its not relative, he it would work the same way, plus 33P is i25 raw and -13, it would be a hard read everytime you land it as a crush, same thing with 3P+K, you wouldn't just throw out his crushes.

How can you say something is meant to work a certain way, when it doesn't work very well in said situation?
It doesn't work well because his tool doesn't work like the others.

You don't need tracking for whiff punishment. If you read what I wrote, I said almost. He has whiff punishment, and he has pokes that do exactly what they're supposed to do. 44k would be good for poke ing, and whiff punishment together. It's only downfall would be it's linearity. It'd be just like Mila's old 4H+K (which they took away). You could throw it out over and over until someone did something about it, and switch to low sweeps or DG. You likely wouldn't need any of his other pokes (depending on your range).
No, you said 44K would be all of his ranged pokes together, and that its downfall would be it being lineal, it wouldn't be just that, it would also have no followups and be -17 on block but safe due to pushback.

Like I said he doesn't actually need to go into it in stun. Therefore, you can not go into it, then throw. Same goes for oki.
In a stun situation, DS leaves the opponent guessing between a CB, a launcher and a faint stun. Its because of these options not being used that the stance often goes to waste.
 
#16
Nice, good going bro. Lets see if we can get something going here.

I'll give my feedback on these changes.

- 44K was the main thing we talked about, having that long reaching (2.04m) safe poke as a normal move would be a blessing, i would be fine without the P followup too tbh. It would just be a really good spacing tool.

- 2P would be big for him, his neutral game is not bad as it is but it would be great for him, that was one of the main ways they nerfed him, and i think so, i don't think anyone else has a -1 2P.

- I see this one pretty unlikely, he already has 5K as a long reaching, safe, NH stunning i12 high kick, having another i12 poke would make him a little too good IMO.

- While i would like this one, i feel 3P would be better, but maybe from a balance stand point 33P would be better since it would be unsafe on block unless charged.

- A throw of off DS would change how Jann Lee is played almost entirely, the only way i see this being balanced would be for the throw to either be breakable or a 2 part throw. This change would be insane though.

Now for what i would like to see.

- For Jann Lee to get 1P9KK, similarly to Lei Fang's 33PKK, these two already share an amount of moves, it would be good to see this one as well, either that or 1PH+K, it would be a low crush into a high crush, H+K is unsafe so i see this one being balanced.

- For 246P and all of its variants to become crouching moves, this would be a tame way of improving Jann Lee's crushing game IMO.

- For 9K and 214P to become true mids, this always struck me as weird since these moves always looked like true mids to me but they aren't, they would be good for forcetech setups.

- For DS 6P to go from -12 to -7/8, i would really like this one to become semi safe, its hard having only 1 safe option from DS. :(

That's all i got, whether we get at least 1 one of these or multiple, i would be happy, Jann Lee needs at least 1 substancial buff IMO. I will also call these people, see what they have to say.

@KING JAIMY
@Jefffcore
@Kberry14

i agree and i'll have something to say real soon after i gather my notes
 

KING JAIMY

Well-Known Member
Rotterdam, The Netherlands
Main Character
Rig
Gamertag
KING JAIMY
3DS Friend Code
5086-3025-4977
PSN ID
King_Jaimy
Steam
KING JAIMY
#17
This thread got me thinking lately, and I've been thinking of an improvement for Jann Lee's :8::h+k:. It is a pretty good move for crushing lows but I honestly think it is not fair for it to be -3 on block. The general rule is usually that slow moves should be advantageous on block since the logic usually is: ''The defending player could have seen that slow moving coming and could have held it, but the defending player didn't do that so the offending player should be rewarded with frame advantage.''

My suggestion is that they should make his :8::h+k: around +1 or +2 on block. This would make the move a lot more useful, but it would not be broken because he only gets light frame advantage.

What do you guys think?
 
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Darkslay

Well-Known Member
Dragon's Gate
Main Character
Jann Lee
PSN ID
Darkslayxz
#18
This thread got me thinking lately, and I've been thinking of an improvement for Jann Lee's :8::h+k:. It is a pretty good move for crushing lows but I honestly think it is not fair for it to be -3 on block. The general rule is usually that slow moves should be advantageous on block since the logic usually is: ''The defending player could have seen that slow moving coming and could have held it, but the defending player didn't do that so the offending player should be rewarded with frame advantage.''

My suggestion is that they should make his :8::h+k: around +1 or +2 on block. This would make the move a lot more useful, but it would not be broken because he only gets light frame advantage.

What do you guys think?
I agree, its his slowest move as well.

I also thought of something recently. What if :2::p+k: and :1::p+k: became low crushes? He already hops in place while doing both, and would make the moves a lot more dynamic.
 
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#19
Hello everyone, Jann Lee player here. I was talking with my good friend @Darkslay about some changes for Jann Lee that would be nice well it first started out as talking about a move becoming a normal from one of his movesets and I was thinking maybe we can get some changes to happen for a future patch.

Here are some of the things we suggested:

- The second hit of k4k and 3k4k becoming a normal move and assigned as 44k. This move would be very beautiful as a normal move as he would have access to another range move.

-2p becoming neutral on hit again. This would help a lot and can follow up but with it being -1 on hit as it is now he can't really follow up afterwards against characters with fast strikes unless they are slower characters. I think he is really the only character who has a 2p that -1 on hit.

-6k becoming 12 frames like it was back in vanilla.

-33p becoming a true high crush. As we know Jann Lee does not really have a good high crush at all. 2p is of course your generic high crush, and 2h+k is too slow, and 3p+k is just really risky have if blocked they can follow up with a move easily. 33p would be nice as a high crush may not be crazy like Gen Fu's 3p, but at least would be better than Jann Lee's 3p+k

- throw added in dragon gunner stance. I was talking with Ryujin before about some of Jann Lee moves and said him having a grab would be good.

If anyone agrees or disagrees, or simply have some suggestions please post here and let us know so I can add to the first post. Lets try to get TN to take notice so Jann Lee does not get unnoticed any longer.

@Darkslay
@RyuJin
@DroWin_MaN
@eks2009
@RiBu
- I wouldn't mind seeing a 44k being added. It would give Jann another range option as well as a kick option to get into backturn status.

- 2p becoming neutral would be nice (specially see as his 6p gets crushed by anyone who sees a quarter on the ground) but if he has his 6k back at 12f it maybe a bit much.

- I'm all for 6k becoming 12 frames again. The string from it is short and a bit risky.

- 33p becoming a true high crush only seems fair. I'm not asking for it to crush on frame 1 (would be nice though) but it should crush very early and only end either on its first active frame or close to. They maybe worried about it giving him + on block when fully charged but he gets nothing free (unless blocked from max range or after a tech "blocked on the last few after frames") so it wouldn't be to strong.

- Throw in dragon stance...yes please. I don't want to hear it would make him to strong. Most of the cast that has a stance has a throw from them. He has no tracking options from stance. He has no low option from stance. I'd like to see a throw. Maybe a 10 frame throw that puts you right next to him at +3. Yeah I said it +3. It does not have to be an OH just a normal throw.

Other things I'd like to see...

- add the option to enter Dragon stance at the start of the round. In its current state he has no tracking option so if you are worried about him being to strong in it you can either just walk away from him (giving him only the 6k option to use) or side step. If they added a throw side stepping could be a problem but still not overpowered. Right now you CAN get into stance at the start of the round but it is unreliable. Most of the time when you try he exit stance right as the round starts.

- add the option to cancel his shakes after landing things like 66k, 46k, etc. Now I know it looks cool and hell I'd even let it rock from time to time but it just seems odd that everyone can rush down after most of there knock back attacks but not Jann Lee.I'm fine with the Dragon kick being how it is for balance reasons but everything else needs to change. Lets look at Ein and Hayate. They have a 14f punch that is hitting for about the same as Jann's 66k. Now 66k has good range and is safe so I can understand why the shakes...maybe be warrantied but I'm not happy with it. Why does 46k have a shake after it? Its unsafe, (-12) the range is not that good, and it is slow. Upside is it has high damage and it is a tracking mid BUT IT IS SLOW! If they had to knock 10 points of damage off to remove the added recovery at this point I would be happy with it.

If said move has to be unsafe to not have the recovery added on they why does he shake after 216p? Because its 13 frames and does high damage? Well its only 13 frames once you are in a crouching state. You cannot buffer this into anything that does not have you crouching already and have it come out in 13 frames. I'd have to do some more testing but at best you could get it out in like 15 or 16 frames. Also in DOA2U his 216p crushed better. Due to the fact that I've blocked most of DOA4 from my memory I can't really speak on it in that game.

- His kick parry needs to be faster. I'd love for the start up to be faster BUT not needed. Not sure how they meant for it to be used but it can't even be used to parry a wake up kick. The opponent has time to do the mid wake up kick and block the strike that follows.


The only reason I can see as to why Jann Lee is in the state he is in is due to Dragon Gunner. The dev team maybe worried that if he is buffed to much then he would be to strong. Seeing as we've had tons of patches to test that I don't see why he has seem little to know love. Dragon Gunner is nice but in actual competition you can react to it...while stunned. I don't want DG to be faster...if anything I'd like it to have a bit more range but its not needed.

Jann Lee is great for knocking the opponent back and wall damage. The thing is when I knock you back towards the wall I'd like to try and keep you there. If he keeps the recovery on his strikes then I'd like to see an increase to his movement speed. Back walk, forward walk, and back dash. Not need for an increased forward dash.

Jann Lee is not a horrible character but comparatively to the rest of the cast he is lacking. I may or not maybe going a bit overboard and that is fine. I'm sure I've missed some good info in this thread and I'll try to use my lunch break to catch up. Also...I'm sure I'll have to edit the heck out of this >_<
 
#20
Giving Jan Lee a throw in DS is too much. I mean what if you're stuck in the corner against that?
If I side step he'll grab me
If i duck he'll kick me in the face.
If i block he'll grab me..
And if i do nothing he'll kick me in the face.
He's already good enough since he's anti air and grab. The only problem is his mix up game. He relies too much on highs. His 3k4kp or 1pp should at least GB. I do agree on speeding up his Dragon counter. For DS if you're talking about canceling the ds then that's ok since everyone else can cancel their stance
 
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