DOA5U Kasumi's match video and critique thread

tokiopewpew

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This only happens because of latency online I guarantee you. Kasumi cannot delay 4PK's followup so as soon as it blocked the minute the opponent spots the cancel they just need to hit 5T or 6T. I'm speaking from experience because I've faced a player in offline casuals that likes to do the same thing with 4PK and hoshinpo knees. It's not too difficult to react to the cancel either so yeah if someone feels like it they can throw punish that.

Oh, I've noticed that I confused 4PK with 6PK. Therefore, there are no doubts that it isn't unsafe.
I'm sorry for that guys, everything you said was true and adequate.

http://dict.leo.org/#/search=adequately&searchLoc=0&resultOrder=basic&multiwordShowSingle=on
CB > FS > 4H+K KK7K 6P+K > 9PK > 6P+K > KK (Universal)
CB > 33K > 33P > 2P > PKK7K ( or PKKK both this & PKK7K works on all but heavysets so 4PKK heavyset), a great wall juggle
CB > 236P > KK7K > 6P+K > 9PK > 6P+K > KK (Works on mostly feather to lightweights)

Thanks for posting these combos again. I already try to use the second one as much as possible, it works fine.
I have problems with the excecution of 6P+K and 9PK following out of hoshinpo, it's input is not easy for me. I really want to learn this move, it's effective and looks very cool, but I don't get it right now.
 

J.D.E.

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First of all, no worries, it's not. Thank you very much for giving some feedback.



I see. Currently, I try to make my gameplay/used moves a bit more varied and I'm still learning some combos. I tend to use the same moves every time because I'm afraid to lose damage I could have done when dropping a combo. I think I also have to concentrate more while playing, sometimes, I forget about all the tools I can use for combos/juggles (excitement :confused:). I'll try to use the moves you've mentioned more.



Yeah, I know that it can be slow escaped. Actually, I only use it one or two times to see if my opponent is slow escaping. If he is, I wont use it again.

I did not know that H+K 9K is guaranteed, sounds like it's really worth to use it then.



I have to admit that I don't know yet what tools Brad has to punish that. I like to use 4PK because I can free-cancel the followup, what works on most opponents. I know it's unsafe on paper, but it's difficult for most characters to punish it, because it pushes them away a bit, even when they block.



Tenryuga also told me that. I promise I will use it very rarely. :oops:


That's a bad habit, I'm already trying so hard to break.



Yeah, I was already trying out these moves, I still have to learn when it's the right situation for using them.


Like I said before, thank's a lot. Here is some more stuff, maybe you find something else that is important to mention.



You did much better in these 2 videos in terms of juggling options, but I can tell that you're too reliant on a critical burst. Kasumi is a character that doesn't need a critical burst in order to win, which is a bonus.Use more of her launchers & her guaranteed damage too so that you don't get predictable You did good however with your use of the 33K juggle follow ups after it. But like I said before, don't get so reliable on it. A few times you got predictable & the Bass player was able to read it. He was also making you pay for the use of 4PK lol. When the Bass player was just hitting buttons out in the open trying to bait you into bomb rushing, that was when you should've been whiff punishing with either 66P, 66K, & 3K can also be used too. That's why I was trying to tell you other than good mixups & CBs, go for the guaranteed damage (H+K 9K). There's nothing they can do to get out of guaranteed damage. Unless you're wanting to tech with H+K 66PP (another great option) at the max, go for the granted damage until they learn to respect it. Remember that. It does the same thing as 6K except your juggle options are a little bit different. If you can't do the 6P+K > 9PK juggles, then just do PKK7K > 6P+K > KK. You're still getting damage. Do that until you learn the others. Also, if you noticed that Bass was lying on his stomach. You could have teched him with 2K or 9K if he was just lying there, taking away his wake up game.

Against Gen Fu, after you CB'd in the open, you did the same follow up, but dropped it. That CB follow up that you're using is a situational juggle (for the wall or angle carry). The moves in 33K > 33P > 2P > 4PKK (or PKK7K) will not always work. Remember, 33K > 66K~K > 7K > 6P+K > KK, 33K > 66K~K > 4PKK or 33K > 66K~K > PP7K > P+K are some follow ups too for CBs. Those are some simple CB follow ups. 236P > PKK7K > 6P+K > KK is another one. Freestep > 4H+K > PKK7K > 6P+K > KK is another (most damaging one out of all I've listed here). She has even more damaging ones, but I listed these since you're still working on 6P+K > 9P+K timing.

Much better overall though from what I saw. I'll edit the post if I view it again to see what else I can find.
 
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UprisingJC

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@JDE Try not to give up the advantage Kasumi has at round 1 fight too often. Against the Momiji player, whose speeds are 10/12/14 vs 9/11/12 there were two rounds you blocked against her when she should be the one blocking against you in round 1 fight. Then against Lisa who is an overall slower character you SS at R1F. You don't want to do that at round 1 fight because Lisa only has two options to keep Kasumi in check: crush or 4H+K which beats her 11i mid because of its crappy hitbox and out-speeds / out-damages the rest of them. The main crushes Lisa has also track so by sidestepping you are actually making it easier, not harder, for her to get a hit on you at round 1 fight.

1.Momiji has an i12 2p, too.
2.!? Can Lisa crush Kasumi's i11 6p by 4H+K? WTF?
 

tokiopewpew

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You did much better in these 2 videos in terms of juggling options, but I can tell that you're too reliant on a critical burst. Kasumi is a character that doesn't need a critical burst in order to win, which is a bonus.

Yeah I know that going for a CB with her is not recommended in general, but I wanted to try it anyway, especially because I'm not able to perform some high damage combos and I need to deal damage in other ways. It worked out two times of four in this case, that's not to bad, isn't it?

He was also making you pay for the use of 4PK lol.

So true.:rolleyes: I think I'm cured of using it so careless now.

Also, if you noticed that Bass was lying on his stomach. You could have teched him with 2K or 9K if he was just lying there, taking away his wake up game.

Since a wakeup kicks sometimes can turn around a whole game, I'm a bit carefully with force-tech until I know what my opponent is doing when he is grounded. That's why I've used 6H+K later for helping him up.

Remember, 33K > 66K~K > 7K > 6P+K > KK, 33K > 66K~K > 4PKK or 33K > 66K~K > PP7K > P+K are some follow ups too for CBs. Those are some simple CB follow ups. 236P > PKK7K > 6P+K > KK is another one. Freestep > 4H+K > PKK7K > 6P+K > KK is another (most damaging one out of all I've listed here). She has even more damaging ones, but I listed these since you're still working on 6P+K > 9P+K timing.

I'll try them, I just need to have them in the back of my mind while playing online.

Much better overall though from what I saw. I'll edit the post if I view it again to see what else I can find.

Please do. Thank you very much for all that feedback.
 

J.D.E.

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Yeah I know that going for a CB with her is not recommended in general, but I wanted to try it anyway, especially because I'm not able to perform some high damage combos and I need to deal damage in other ways. It worked out two times of four in this case, that's not to bad, isn't it?



So true.:rolleyes: I think I'm cured of using it so careless now.



Since a wakeup kicks sometimes can turn around a whole game, I'm a bit carefully with force-tech until I know what my opponent is doing when he is grounded. That's why I've used 6H+K later for helping him up.



I'll try them, I just need to have them in the back of my mind while playing online.



Please do. Thank you very much for all that feedback.

Actually, it "can" be a bad thing, depending on how knowledgeable the player is that you're facing. 9 times out of 10, if you're doing that 2 out of 4 times like you said, then it's getting held & then makes it easier to predict your next move leading to a deep threshold or setup that you're aiming for. Aim for more mixups, stun-launch, & use of good setups like I've mentioned. If you can confuse them, & you think that you can get it off, then by all means, go for it. More power to you. Because if they guess wrong, that's big damage for you. I always use a critical burst no matter what character that I'm playing, but I'm also aware of what other options that I have to keep them guessing, but it has a very high payout. If I have them respecting a certain things, then that's when I go for the burst.

4PK. 4PK is a good tool, but doesn't need to be used so freely. Matter of fact, 4PK is a good launcher for a juggle, part of her mixup game. It's also guaranteed after 66T~T (besides 6P6K). I use it for both mixup & 66T~T (only when I'm against the wall or somewhere close to it).

As for teching, he was grounded & most of the time, he was pressing buttons. That was a time that you would have had good advantage if you teched him. I see your point, though because I had to get used to it at one point, still am at times.

You should also use 236T, & 46T more. 46T, regardlss of what some say about it can be annoying aiming for more mixup game. 236T is good if you catch them miss holding besides H+K because it gives you a free air juggle. 5T is 5i. I seen you use it a few times. It's a decent throw, but it can be throw escaped. Use 6T more often; mainly for you throw punisher since it's 7i.
 
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tokiopewpew

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You should also use 236T, & 46T more. 46T, regardlss of what some say about it can be annoying aiming for more mixup game. 236T is good if you catch them miss holding besides H+K because it gives you a free air juggle. 5T is 5i. I seen you use it a few times. It's a decent throw, but it can be throw escaped. Use 6T more often; mainly for you throw punisher since it's 7i.

46T is a bit tricky imo, since I'm mostly playing online.

Don't you mean 66T?
33T is her best throw-punishing move as far as I know. (I like 214T also)
 

J.D.E.

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46T is a bit tricky imo, since I'm mostly playing online.

Don't you mean 66T?
33T is her best throw-punishing move as far as I know. (I like 214T also)

No, 46T. 66T is good too. 33T is slower than 6T. 6T is 7i which is fast & is a throw punish for an unsafe move. For you to use 33T like that, you would have to be playing somebody who plays wild.
 

tokiopewpew

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No, 46T. 66T is good too. 33T is slower than 6T. 6T is 7i which is fast & is a throw punish for an unsafe move. For you to use 33T like that, you would have to be playing somebody who plays wild.

Oh my bad. You were talking about throw punishing unsafe moves. I actually had punishing holds in my mind.
 

Tenryuga

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1.Momiji has an i12 2p, too.
2.!? Can Lisa crush Kasumi's i11 6p by 4H+K? WTF?

I mean it could have been because it was online or due to a bad range but I have had Kasumi's 6P crushed by Lisa's 4H+K at R1F multiple times. I can believe it does crush it because the hitbox for that mid isn't the greatest. Maybe you guys should double check this when you get the chance.
 

UprisingJC

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I mean it could have been because it was online or due to a bad range but I have had Kasumi's 6P crushed by Lisa's 4H+K at R1F multiple times. I can believe it does crush it because the hitbox for that mid isn't the greatest. Maybe you guys should double check this when you get the chance.
No wonder Lisa players tend to use that move that frequently -_-
An I12 move that beats most of the other i12 ones.

I should consider using only 2 or 3 characters now. I think I've almost forgot how to use Ksaumi to put pressure properly...-_-
 

Tenryuga

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No wonder Lisa players tend to use that move that frequently -_-
An I12 move that beats most of the other i12 ones.

I should consider using only 2 or 3 characters now. I think I've almost forgot how to use Ksaumi to put pressure properly...-_-

plus its not like they can get punished for it consistently. You have to run up and grab the moment you block 4H+K otherwise they can just jab you unless you are at a wall.
 

tokiopewpew

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Ok ...
Since I had not much time to play during the week, I was quite anxious to start putting all your tips into practice yesterday. Therefore, I want to show you guys some of my latest matches.

I'm sorry if I might clutter the this thread with my rubbish, if someone thinks it's annoying, please don't hesitate to tell me. I hope it's not to bad, in consideration to the fact that this thread has not seen many new posts during the last months.

I still practice some of the combos posted before, especially those with 66K~K are a bit tricky for me, sometimes the opponent won't bounce from the ground. I think I'm just to slow with my input.

If someone might spend some time watching my videos and want to commentate, I'm rather interested in concerns regarding safety, spacing, getting into the opponent and predictability than combos I should have used for max damage this time.


You will notice that I've used 4PK again in this video as well as in the second one. I used it because I did not know that the opponents moves are that save and thought it would hit them.Lack of knowledge about frame data. At 0:54, I failed with doing the right followup for starting a wall juggle, 33P should have worked I think.


In this match, I also had some input errors. Around 0:24, I tried to go for a 236T launcher twice, I got a 6P instead.
At 1:35, I should have done a 9K for the juggle.


Well, my opponent here was not a beast with Ein, but he still did some unpredictable things.


Some questions I have:

I think I'm using 6P to much, maybe I should use P strings more. Is 6K also recommendable? I would use it only if I know the opponent is doing a lot of mid punch holds. Its a bit slow, isn't it?

Are 9K or 2K better moves for force-tech as 6H+K? You might have noticed that 6H+K did not work often and I got hit by a wake-up kick.
 

J.D.E.

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I'll have to look at them & give my point of view some other time, man. Sorry it took me so long to respond. I've been busy all last week & this week, I've been packing & getting ready for the KiT tournament along with a few sets of casuals that I can squeeze in online.

I think I'm using 6P to much, maybe I should use P strings more. Is 6K also recommendable? I would use it only if I know the opponent is doing a lot of mid punch holds. Its a bit slow, isn't it?

Are 9K or 2K better moves for force-tech as 6H+K? You might have noticed that 6H+K did not work often and I got hit by a wake-up kick.

Yes, it is. I wouldn't use 6K itself. It's a good tool, but not like a move you would throw out there. 6K2K is a mixup, but it's slow catching tracking moves Nobody is really going to get hit with it either due to it being so slow.However, 4H+K 6KK & 4H+K 3PP (or 4H+K 3P in a deep stun state for a small juggle) are guaranteed. 6KK is a good tool.

I have to look & see what you're doing in terms of teching when I look at the video.
 
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Tenryuga

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@ToKyo PewPew

I don't have alot of time so I'll just answer your questions. 6K is a really good move in stun, and 6KK is a 2 in 1 in stun, which has great application when you are near objects, explosive walls, or danger zones. Outside of stun it is used to track SS even though it doesn't do a reliable job at that. You should use 6K followups on block very rarely, preferably 6KK when you are near a wall to get the splat. Nobody is ever getting hit by 6K2K unless they are unfamiliar with the MU or have poor reactions because that low is slow as hell. 3K is also a good poke to use during spacing.

All the moves you listed are decent to force people to get off the ground, however due to the invincibility of opponents it is a hassle being successful at utilizing them in that fashion.

About the P strings yes you should use them often. PK is a really nice counterhit tool for Kasumi because it grants her + frames and if you choose you can go into PKK, which forces them to hold mid kick if they don't want to eat the launching mid kicks in that string. 2P is also good to reset pressure in some MU's and if you condition the opponent correctly counterblows and damage start rolling in.
 

tokiopewpew

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Thanks for your answers, JDE and Tenryuga.

No worries, there is no hurry, I do not expect to get immediate responses because FSD is a forum, not an instant chat messenger.:rolleyes:

I don't like using 6K with that 2K followup because I rather want to launch my opponent than bowl him down, but I will try to use 3K more, as well as the P strings.
 

UprisingJC

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Kasumi's 6K2K is NOT WORTH USING for most of the time due to it being slow as f**k and Kasumi is in a standing status when performing that move, which means that she can't even evade high attacks or standing OHs(For example: Bayman's sideroll scissor).

6K2K is so slow that even a character with his/her fastest mid being i13 is likely to hit her before her 6K2K hits him/her.

Even if Kasumi hits her opponent with 6K2K, for most of the time she can do nothing but see her opponent down on the ground if it's a counter hit or higher.
 
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Tenryuga

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Take note of how good PK is as a counter-hit tool guys. Almost every time it's used the exchange goes in Kasumis favor if they don't do anything about PKK.
 

tokiopewpew

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I'm wondering about the massive usage of :4::K: and the following :K: in the middle of strings, when she gets back turned. At first, I though these were just input errors, but I checked the frame data and it looks like she's relatively save on block with this. However, I'm not sure if it is worth using it, because standing back turned can be very risky imo.

Any different opinions?
 
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