DOA5U Kasumi's match video and critique thread

[tokiopewpew]

During some training sessions, I've also figured out that 1K with a following 4p can open up the opponent very good at close range. But sadly, it is only good in theory and does not work on most opponents for me because if we end up in a "who jerks first?"-situation (hate these, but it mostly happens ) and I try to start the offensive with 1K, I got hit by a 6p or something else almost every time.

Most usefull moves are those I picked up from watching ShadeSwifteye. These are 3P (3PP with small delay), 6P and 1P at close range, 6P1K or 6PK (delayed). Although they work very good on high ranked players for me (yeah I know rank does not have to mean anything, but S and U cannot be that bad), I have more problems with people who are mashing buttons (because they don't care delays and I'm really bad at grabbing )

I really should make a video of me playing soon, I'm sure you guys can help me out with some stupid things I do sometimes.

 

[Nameless Sama]

Note: 1. I hate to fight against my first main Ryu. Note : 2 I play in every 2 weeks one time becuase of my study

 

[Tenryuga]

Note: 1. I hate to fight against my first main Ryu. Note : 2 I play in every 2 weeks one time becuase of my study

It looks like you still don't know how to approach your opponent with Kasumi. You either use 3P+K P at bad ranges or stand there blocking at range. Be mobile, but be alert. Move in inch by inch and be cautious if your opponent is good at spacing or run in if you see an opening. I suggest you watch Shade Swifteye's match against Master to get an idea of what I mean.

As for your offense it needs some work. I saw you retaliate against Hayabusa's 6PP with 4K. The first thing to note is that Hayabusa's 6PP is throw punishable. The second is that you should never be retaliating against somebody with 4K. If you need to poke or interrupt someone use P, 6P, 2P, 1P. Slow moves like 4K are best left for the stun game or when you have frame advantage.You should learn some juggles after her launchers too because everytime you got a stun you went for the throw instead of a launcher. That gets predictable and some greedy players like myself will hi counter launch you for it.

When you score a knockdown don't 3P+K. You do not need to 3P+K to flip over somebody that is knocked down. You can use 9P or 9P+K. 9P is better because it leaves you right in front of them for you to hit with BT 2P / 2K or BT 4P if they whiff a wakeup kick.

 

[Soaring Zero]

Is there any reason to ever use 4K? I've just kinda forgotten the move exists. Sometimes but VERY rarely I can catch someone by doing the string that leads into it and stopping after the 4K to do BT 8K but that's only if I'm against someone who isn't doing much in regards to defense.

 

[UprisingJC]

Note: 1. I hate to fight against my first main Ryu. Note : 2 I play in every 2 weeks one time becuase of my study

1.You look rather passive...what I mean is that even though you're in a close distance to Ryu, you just kept blocking.
I saw that Ryu start the attack in a close range a lot of times. You're not using a slow character like Bass so you ought to start the attack.

2.Why did you use her 33P+K when you weren't going to launch ur opponent with that power launcher?
I saw you use it twice for no reason, wrong input?

 

[UprisingJC]

As for your offense it needs some work. I saw you retaliate against Hayabusa's 6PP with 4K. The first thing to note is that Hayabusa's 6PP is throw punishable. The second is that you should never be retaliating against somebody with 4K. If you need to poke or interrupt someone use P, 6P, 2P, 1P. Slow moves like 4K are best left for the stun game or when you have frame advantage.You should learn some juggles after her launchers too because everytime you got a stun you went for the throw instead of a launcher. That gets predictable and some greedy players like myself will hi counter launch you for it.

As for retaliation, well Tenryuga I just have a few questions about this.
1. 1P is as slow as 4K, leaves Kasumi at -9 on block and its follow-up hits high .
On paper her opponent can do a low grab right after getting hit by 1p on normal hit.
If Kasumi doesn't throw out 1PP, she gets thrown by a low throw; even though she does, she's at disadvantage.

Frame data of 1PP and a low throw:

1PP - 19(3)25
2T/1T - 5(2)21 and 7(2)19




I still have no idea how to treat this move correctly.


2. P, 6P, 2P are Kasumi's fast moves and ideal for retaliation. However, would you replace them (mostly p and 6p) with other moves like, K, 6K or 3K when you're fighting against characters like Ryu and Bayman who have high damage output from their holds, especially Ryu's advanced holds against punches.

When you score a knockdown don't 3P+K. You do not need to 3P+K to flip over somebody that is knocked down. You can use 9P or 9P+K. 9P is better because it leaves you right in front of them for you to hit with BT 2P / 2K or BT 4P if they whiff a wakeup kick.

If the opponent whiffs an wakeup kick and Kasumi uses her 9p+k at an appropriate distance and good timing, she'll be right behind the opponent and she can bounce him/her with 6p6k.

 

[tokiopewpew]

If Kasumi doesn't throw out 1PP, she gets thrown by a low throw; even though she does, she's at disadvantage.

Well I'm really not the expert here, but not many people know that 1P can be punished with a low throw. (Don't know about the common tournament participants). I've never seen someone punishing that move this way.

I remember saying Rabies that move would be save as he was commenting a match between Shade Shwifteye and Choosen1 at the FR16 tournament. It hasn't changed with Ultimate, did it?

 

[Nameless Sama]

Yeah I know I play passive because

1. I dont play this all the time in every 2 or 3 weeks on time
2. I dont rush I play safe and quietly imo
3. Kasumi is only a tag partner for Ryu. I need Solo experince with her to get better in Tag.

If I am honest I am really confused. The one guy say dont use while hoshinpo 9PK becuase its unsafe and dont make much damage but the other one use that ? My question is why do you use 9PK when it dont make damage ?.

This is the 5th Time that I play solo in online with her! So thanks for your feedback. I will do this in my way then. That is the best what I can do.

 

[Soaring Zero]

I've kinda limited my usage of 1P. I only throw it out if I score a stun because honestly it seems like a lose lose move. It's not that fast so it can be blocked most of the time and if you don't do the follow up you can be punished. But if you DO the follow up and it gets blocked you can still be punished.

 

[UprisingJC]

Well I'm really not the expert here, but not many people know that 1P can be punished with a low throw. (Don't know about the common tournament participants). I've never seen someone punishing that move this way.

I remember saying Rabies that move would be save as he was commenting a match between Shade Shwifteye and Choosen1 at the FR16 tournament. It hasn't changed with Ultimate, did it?

1P has left Kasumi at -9 on normal hit since 1.03 in vanilla DOA5.
It originally left her at -7 on normal hit.

You're right, I sometimes also get stunned by 1pp. That's why I mentioned "on paper" in that post.

 

[Tenryuga]

1P is a high crush. That's basically what its used for; defensive poking. For example if you are facing somebody that likes to pressure with highs or punch grab 1P / 2P are the answer, just 1P has a deeper stun but a worse situation on NH. I agree with you guys though; I don't really like using it outside of crush situations.

Against characters with damaging mid punch holds I still use my primary pokes (P, 6P, 2P, 3P) but mix up the hit levels. 3K I use at mid range. I don't really use up close a lot since it's -8 and the followup is unsafe. I use it and 6K for retaliation at times though because it and 3K stun on NH. So if they are trying to hold a punch and it hits I pick up frame advantage. K I use a lot for retaliation; especially against Hitomi to get around her punch parry.

As for playing safe it is very possible to be aggressive and play safe with Kasumi. You can't really be passive with her because she's not built to last that way. You have to be on the offensive with her but like someone mentioned earlier you have to know when to stop and block.

 

[UprisingJC]

1P is a high crush. That's basically what its used for; defensive poking. For example if you are facing somebody that likes to pressure with highs or punch grab 1P / 2P are the answer, just 1P has a deeper stun but a worse situation on NH. I agree with you guys though; I don't really like using it outside of crush situations.

Against characters with damaging mid punch holds I still use my primary pokes (P, 6P, 2P, 3P) but mix up the hit levels. 3K I use at mid range. I don't really use up close a lot since it's -8 and the followup is unsafe. It is also 14i so characters with 13i mid punches will beat it with their mids and jabs. K I use a lot for retaliation; especially against Hitomi to get around her punch parry.

Well, I referred to using them(K,3K,6K) for retaliation and simultaneously avoiding people who abuse mid punch holds.
Therefore 13i or slower moves are not a problem as you're at advantage after blocking your opponent's attack.

3K is not good enough for retaliation and 6K is more unsafe on block and has TERRIBLE FOLLOWUPS, 6KK AND 6K2K, which is slow as fxxk...

 

[Princess Kasumi]

Sometimes the 2nd k of 3kk whiffs, so its better to just do the 1st hit and and throw out 66kk or 66k((k)) but people usually sidesteps it, not saying all does but most.

I shouldnt really use pp6p6k during a stun, but i like doing it cause it reminds me of doa4, once the string is finished, i can use 4pkk looks stylish. I should use ppk instead cause it does a lot more DMG

This match was some laggy 2 bars and i was surpised how good i was seeing his low-hold xD
He is an S or S- while i am B- seriously online ranks means nothing -__-

 

[Kyosuke NEO]

I'm sort of a new player, in fact, I didn't even play vanilla 5 and all my other experience with Dead or Alive had been super casual stuff. I played Mila for a good long while, but I didn't get anywhere with her. I'm seeing a lot more results with Kasumi though, and I was looking for ways to improve with her, honestly improve on my play in general. This is the only real match I have on youtube though, and that only because my opponent happened to upload it.

 

[Tenryuga]

I'm sort of a new player, in fact, I didn't even play vanilla 5 and all my other experience with Dead or Alive had been super casual stuff. I played Mila for a good long while, but I didn't get anywhere with her. I'm seeing a lot more results with Kasumi though, and I was looking for ways to improve with her, honestly improve on my play in general. This is the only real match I have on youtube though, and that only because my opponent happened to upload it.

Your offense wasn't bad at all. I saw you working delays and the like just make sure you don't make those your only offensive option. Mix in free cancels here and there to change hit level and start different strings. Also try not to use unsafe moves like 6PKK or 6P6KK. There are specific types of players those strings will hit but generally stay away from completing those strings.

Your stun game needs some work. You are reliant on highs and H+K to get damage. If it's not H+K it's a grab. This is why your opponent felt like it was ok to abuse Hitomi's 1P in stun. You should start using her mid kicks and launchers such as 33K to net some damage. If you are on PSN I'd be glad to show you some juggles. If not there is a thread for them. Feel free to PM me if you don't understand how it's structured.

Other than that good job. Your play reminds me of how I used to use her way back in vanilla DOA5 lol.

Sometimes the 2nd k of 3kk whiffs, so its better to just do the 1st hit and and throw out 66kk or 66k((k)) but people usually sidesteps it, not saying all does but most.

I shouldnt really use pp6p6k during a stun, but i like doing it cause it reminds me of doa4, once the string is finished, i can use 4pkk looks stylish. I should use ppk instead cause it does a lot more DMG

This match was some laggy 2 bars and i was surpised how good i was seeing his low-hold xD
He is an S or S- while i am B- seriously online ranks means nothing -__-

Both PP6P6K and PPK are good. Its a nice mixup. You did fine but try not to use 66H+K and 66KK at range so much. 66H+K is easy to react to and 66KK is unsafe. In the vid you see he sidestepped you and hit you out of 66H+K lol.

 

[Kyosuke NEO]

Yeah, going for throws to much once I get some stun action going is sort of a bad habit I've gotten from fighting so many stun happy players. Most of the decent to good players I fought tend not to hold as much, which end up with me looking mindscrewed since I'm so use to them getting mashed. ^^;; I'll be sure to hit up the combo thread for new stuff as well since having some other stuff in my pocket is definitely a good idea.

 

[Soaring Zero]

Yeah I hate when that happens. I fight players who like to try a hold after almost every stun so against those I have a lot of fun with grabs. A good tip I picked up from the beginner guide is that once you score a stun, you don't have to immediately attack again. It's better to pause slightly just to see if you they are going to try and hold then punish them for it. Don't do it everytime because you may miss out on damage if you do but try it here and there just to keep them guessing.

 

[Tenryuga]

This is a video to show you guys an illustration of why I say you should never bombrush somebody or try to come in on somebody with 66K as Kasumi. I am not the player this vid and my friend was just trolling with Brad Wong and got massive results. Just watch the part from 1:30 till the end of that round. That's generally what happens against anybody with a good keepout move such as Ein's 4K, 46P or Ayane's spin attacks / 3H+K when you try to foolishly rush in with Kasumi.

 

[UprisingJC]

This is a video to show you guys an illustration of why you I say you should never bombrush somebody or try to come in on somebody with 66K as Kasumi. I am not the player this vid and my friend was just trolling with Brad Wong and got massive results. Just watch the part from 1:30 till the end of that round. That's generally what happens against anybody with a good keepout move such as Ein's 4K, 46P or Ayane's spin attacks / 3H+K when you try to foolishly rush in with Kasumi.

Save 66K as a whiff punisher as much as possible or use 66KK(Just-frame input) if you are not afraid of it being SSed or held..

 

[Princess Kasumi]

what do you think of this? Tenryuga