DOA5U Kokoro force tech and tips thread

The_King_Edo

Well-Known Member
Irving, tx.
Main Character
Honoka
PSN ID
Edoscoris333
This thread will contain all of kokoro's force tech's (Or atleast a good amount of them) the frame advantage it gives her, And what she can do after the force tech to limit her opponent's options, and also any tips anybody can give other kokoro players!
 
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Heikou

Active Member
Standard Donor
South Carolina
Main Character
Kokoro
PSN ID
Onsen-no-Osen
Before I start, I just want to say that the moves you're going to want to use may differ from the ones I want to use, but I have the plus frames listed so you should be able to figure out which moves you'd like to use yourself. Also, if the plus frames are higher than the execution frames of the move I list or the move you want to use, you need to delay them or they'll whiff.

1P (+21)
Good moves to use would be 33P, 1KK, 3K, 8P, 214P, 2K, and P+K.

2P+K (+18)
This is a somewhat unique force tech because it leaves her BT.
Good moves to use would be BT 4K, BT 4P (best imo), BT P+K, BT 2P+K. You can use her BT P if you'd like, but I haven't found it to be very useful.

My personal favorite force tech(s) come from the 1KK string. She has a lot of options even if the first kick doesn't tech.

1KK (+5)
It's best to let the second K whiff for multiple reasons; the second K leaves her facing forward instead of BT and closes some space. If you don't use the followup K, all of her BT options whiff unless the opponent tries pressing a really dumb button to press. It also leaves her with her followups in case the opponent isn't force teched, or if they decide to back tech (which will leave you with advantage or disadvantage depending on the situation.)
Good options if this force techs the opponent would be 66P, 8P, 33P, 6KP, 2K, 3K, and P+K. As with everything else, this has to be adjusted based on what your opponent wants to do when they're force teched.

3K4K (+20)
This is similar to 2P+K as it leaves you BT, but you get 2 frames more advantage than with 2P+K.
Good moves are BT K (situational), BT 4K, BT 4P, BT P+K, BT 2P+K.

3KP and 3K2P / Heichu 2P (+21)
Good moves to use would be 33P, 1KK, 3K, 8P, 214P, 2K, and P+K.

Sort of off topic, but since this thread deals with oki, I guess this is the place to post it. A decent unholdable setup I've found is, when you wall splat, after using her 9P, 6PPP wall juggle, instantly use 1P, then 8P. 1P will whiff and 8P will be unholdable.
 
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The_King_Edo

Well-Known Member
Irving, tx.
Main Character
Honoka
PSN ID
Edoscoris333
Before I start, I just want to say that the moves you're going to want to use may differ from the ones I want to use, but I have the plus frames listed so you should be able to figure out which moves you'd like to use yourself. Also, if the + frames are higher than the execution frames of the move I list or the move you want to use, you need to delay them or they'll whiff.

1P (+21)
Good moves to use would be 33P, 1KK, 3K, 8P, 214P, 2K, and P+K.

2P+K (+18)
This is a somewhat unique force tech because it leaves her BT.
Good moves to use would be BT K (situational), BT 4K, BT P+K, BT 2P+K. You can use her BT P if you'd like, but I haven't it to be very useful.

My personal favorite force tech(s) come from the 1KK string. She has a lot of options even if the first kick doesn't tech.

1KK (+5)
It's best to let the second K whiff for multiple reasons; the second K leaves her facing forward instead of BT and closes some space. If you don't use the followup K, all of her BT options whiff unless the opponent tries pressing a really dumb button to press. It also leaves her with her followups in case the opponent isn't force teched, or if they decide to back tech (which will leave you with advantage or disadvantage depending on the situation.)
Good options if this force techs the opponent would be 66P, 8P, 33P, 6KP, 2K, 3K, and P+K. As with everything else, this has to be adjusted based on what your opponent wants to do when they're force teched.

3K4K (+20)
This is similar to 2P+K as it leaves you BT, but you get 2 frames more advantage than with 2P+K.
Good moves are BT K (situational), BT 4K, BT P+K, BT 2P+K.

3KP and 3K2P / Heichu 2P (+21)
Good moves to use would be 33P, 1KK, 3K, 8P, 214P, 2K, and P+K.

Sort of off topic, but since this thread deals with oki, I guess this is the place to post it. A decent unholdable setup I've found is, when you wall splat, after using her 9P, 6PPP wall juggle, instantly use 1P, then 8P. 1P will whiff and 8P will be unholdable.
Ty for the useful information, tbh I didn't know her 3k4k force teched Lol, Once I find my copy of doa since I lost it (Fml) I'll post some force techs I like to personally use and some setups you can use to lead to force techs.
 
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The_King_Edo

Well-Known Member
Irving, tx.
Main Character
Honoka
PSN ID
Edoscoris333
Later on today I'll be giving some force tech setups, for now I'll give a few kokoro players some tips, After 4T if you succesfully land 66P You get a guaranted 6KP and i believe 4P+K For a back turned launch, This cannot be slow escaped after 66P And here are some combos you can do.

Bt 66P: 6K.P combos
  • Bt 66P: 6K.P 9PP2KP
  • Bt 66P: 6K.P P2KP - Only this one works on super heavy weights
  • Bt 66P: 6K.P 66P+K P+K P+K
Those are the combos I know, ill go into specific weight classes (Super, heavy, medium, light, feather) Later, for now I hope this helps some kokoro players out there.

Edit: 4P+K after Bt 66P is slow escapable in fast SE mode but 6K.P is guaranteed and not slow escapable, Force tech setups will be posted later
 
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The_King_Edo

Well-Known Member
Irving, tx.
Main Character
Honoka
PSN ID
Edoscoris333
Ok now time for the force tech setups I like to use in battle with the most minimal damage loss

  • (After critical burst at wall) 4P+K 9P (x3) P2KT2P - +21
  • (After critical burst in open space) 4P+K K 9PP2K P+K 2P - +21
  • (On normal hit or in any stun level) 2P+K, 2P+K - +18
  • (On normal hit or in any stun level) 2P+K, (Delay a little) 2H+K, K (2nd K if the opponent does not get force teched) - +20
  • (While opponent has been wall splatted) PK2P, This is a setup because they'll be falling while she's doing her PK and and when they're on the ground her 2P end of the string will force tech them
Here are the ones that you have to sacrifice damage in order to get the force tech

  • (Highest level of critical stun) 1PPP - +21
One tip after the force tech especially at the wall, if they try to sidestep Use 6T or 66T for special wall throw, below are some force techs I use myself.
2H+K - +20

7K - +19

2P - +24 This force tech is kinda tricky and is only prefered at the wall when you have wall splat them because of her (while opponent is on the ground) 2P, my method is to just mash 2P until they get force teched by it, if you can pull it off without the wall in open space, your awesome, and also I believe if you don't want her (while opponent is on the ground) 2P I think you have to crouch.
 

Heikou

Active Member
Standard Donor
South Carolina
Main Character
Kokoro
PSN ID
Onsen-no-Osen
After 4T if you succesfully land 66P You get a guaranted 6KP and i believe 4P+K For a back turned launch, This cannot be slow escaped after 66P And here are some combos you can do.
Although this is technically stagger escapable, it's very, very difficult. 4T, 66P, 1KKP. Not sure exactly who I saw use this first, but I wasn't the one who found this, just to clarify. After the launch, you can land 9P, 6KP, P2KP on Superlight - Heavy weight classes, and 9P, 66P+K P+K P+K on superheavy.

I'll post some force tech setups myself as soon as I can find some good ones.

As a side note, when you force tech with 2P+K, if the opponent likes to SS after being teched, delaying 4K is my favorite way to beat that out.
 
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StrikerSashi

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Premium Donor
Toronto
Main Character
Eliot
Gamertag
StrikerSashi
PSN ID
StrikerSashi
Oh, for the 4T thing, I haven't played Kokoro in like a year, but I believe 3PP will launch on BT opponents, so if you manage to hit someone with 66P when they're backturned, it's a free CH level launch. Other good choice is 4PPPP which will leave you at a sizable frame advantage. This is also useful if you hit with H+K (or variants like 3KK, etc.) in open stance, since 66P is guaranteed.

I don't think 4P+K is guaranteed 'cause it's a high and they might be able to crouch to avoid it even if they can't slow escape and block. Not sure, though. Like I said, haven't played for a while and haven't played Kokoro for longer.
 
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the space cadet

Active Member
Uranus
Main Character
Kokoro
Since you're guaranteed the next strike after 66P in an opponent's back, there's a lot of various setups and juggles, all of which have varying degrees of dmg. What I considered one of the best setups in Vanilla no longer works in Ultimate, so I had hit the lab to find a replacement.

Despite there being multiple nice setups, I personally am the type of player that only looks for, and uses, the most powerful setups. I don't care about setups from the same situation that result in 10-20 dmg less. Of course, "most powerful" is subjective based on each individual's own style for playing. However, of all the setups I'm familiar with, the following two are what I consider the best.

After 66P
1. 9PP2K > sitdown > Must hold
-No part of the 9PP2K can be held. A 7K launcher is available after the sitdown since nothing can be SE'd. A CB is also there, but the timing of 7P is very strict and changes depending on how much (or if at all) the opponent is SE'ing. If the timing of 7P is off, you'll just knock the opponent away. This is due to the sitdown originating from the opponent's back. It's also very easy hold bait when the opponent knows they have no other choice. That, in turn, gives you more flexibility for a CB.

2. 6PP > launcher > juggle
-Can't be SE'd or held. Best option for "guaranteed" dmg. No other guaranteed setup will lead to higher dmg output. Just make sure you're not doing the 6P6P input, which can be SE'd or held, because that leads to a different stun than 6PP.

Here's a video I slapped together showing the above setups. I didn't finish the juggles so I could fit them all in one round.


Although this is technically stagger escapable, it's very, very difficult. 4T, 66P, 1KKP. Not sure exactly who I saw use this first, but I wasn't the one who found this, just to clarify.
That setup can't be SE'd. The 66P in the back is something like a 25 frame stun on fastest SE. 1K is 18 or 19 frames. Under silly conditions, the P can be held. But it's literally closer to being a fluke than a real defensive tactic by the opponent.

Also, I've been using that 1KKP setup since Vanilla and had learned it on my own, so it's possible you saw me using it. I showed that setup to a few other Kokoro players in Ultimate.
 
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The_King_Edo

Well-Known Member
Irving, tx.
Main Character
Honoka
PSN ID
Edoscoris333
Since you're guaranteed the next strike after 66P in an opponent's back, there's a lot of various setups and juggles, all of which have varying degrees of dmg. What I considered one of the best setups in Vanilla no longer works in Ultimate, so I had hit the lab to find a replacement.

Despite there being multiple nice setups, I personally am the type of player that only looks for, and uses, the most powerful setups. I don't care about setups from the same situation that result in 10-20 dmg less. Of course, "most powerful" is subjective based on each individual's own style for playing. However, of all the setups I'm familiar with, the following two are what I consider the best.

After 66P
1. 9PP2K > sitdown > Must hold
-No part of the 9PP2K can be held. A 7K launcher is available after the sitdown since nothing can be SE'd. A CB is also there, but the timing of 7P is very strict and changes depending on how much (or if at all) the opponent is SE'ing. If the timing of 7P is off, you'll just knock the opponent away. This is due to the sitdown originating from the opponent's back. It's also very easy hold bait when the opponent knows they have no other choice. That, in turn, gives you more flexibility for a CB.

2. 6PP > launcher > juggle
-Can't be SE'd or held. Best option for "guaranteed" dmg. No other guaranteed setup will lead to higher dmg output. Just make sure you're not doing the 6P6P input, which can be SE'd or held, because that leads to a different stun than 6PP.

Here's a video I slapped together showing the above setups. I didn't finish the juggles so I could fit them all in one round.



That setup can't be SE'd. The 66P in the back is something like a 25 frame stun on fastest SE. 1K is 18 or 19 frames. Under silly conditions, the P can be held. But it's literally closer to being a fluke than a real defensive tactic by the opponent.

Also, I've been using that 1KKP setup since Vanilla and had learned it on my own, so it's possible you saw me using it. I showed that setup to a few other Kokoro players in Ultimate.
Ty for the extremely useful information here, I had actually done one of the setups but different in the lab, I was testing kokoros bt combos and after 66P I used 2H+K And noticed it put them in a sitdown stun, I didnt know 9PP2K could be used though, Tyvm
 

Heikou

Active Member
Standard Donor
South Carolina
Main Character
Kokoro
PSN ID
Onsen-no-Osen
That setup can't be SE'd. The 66P in the back is something like a 25 frame stun on fastest SE. 1K is 18 or 19 frames. Under silly conditions, the P can be held. But it's literally closer to being a fluke than a real defensive tactic by the opponent.
I'd meant to say that, if you SE quickly enough, you'll be left FT and able to hold any part of 1KKP. Sorry for not clarifying. As for 6PP > Launcher, you can SE then hold it, but you can't SE then block the launcher. But, as with 1KKP, it's difficult enough to SE it that you won't see this happening very often.

Great setups regardless, but if your opponent is a god at stagger escaping and has good yomi / knows the setups well enough to hold, 9PP2K 1 guess setup is the best option in that case. I don't think she has any guaranteed damage after BT 66P aside from 6KP. Then again, if they can SE that quickly then hold properly, they probably will either start blocking 66P after being hit by it once or twice, or they'll already know that you can just backdash after being thrown.

Just so this thread stays somewhat on topic, I've found launching and going for either PK4K or PKP (or her BT equivalent, 4PK4K / 4PKP) to be fairly nice in setting up a force tech, and you stay at a pretty huge advantage if they decide to tech. The only issue is that it sacrifices a significant amount of juggle damage for momentum. Using PK4K then BT 2P+K or PKP then 2P+K to force tech seems to stuff wakeup kicks from certain launch heights, but PKP then 1KK is the better option if they start to back tech.

Edit: Against superlight / lightweight, it looks like launching with 7K then going for 4PK4K or 4PKP then using (BT) 2P+K will force the opponent up if they try using a wakeup kick from level 2 to level 3 critical stun, or from SDS in level 1 or 2 critical stun. I'd love for someone else to test this. If I'm right, I'll probably be devoting a good amount of time to finding more setups like this.
 
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The_King_Edo

Well-Known Member
Irving, tx.
Main Character
Honoka
PSN ID
Edoscoris333
Great setups regardless, but if your opponent is a god at stagger escaping and has good yomi / knows the setups well enough to hold, 9PP2K 1 guess setup is the best option in that case. I don't think she has any guaranteed damage after BT 66P. Then again, if they can SE that quickly then hold properly, they probably will either start blocking 66P after being hit by it once or twice, or they'll already know that you can just backdash after being thrown.
These setups apply to her H+K 66P you don't have to use 4T for 66P BT mix ups Lol
 

Heikou

Active Member
Standard Donor
South Carolina
Main Character
Kokoro
PSN ID
Onsen-no-Osen
These setups apply to her H+K 66P you don't have to use 4T for 66P BT mix ups Lol
None of them apply to H+K 66P since the stun level on landing 66P after 4T and after H+K is different. Every setup the space cadet mentioned knocks down prematurely after H+K, 66P.
The one you posted is actual guaranteed damage and works after both setups, though. I don't know why I hadn't thought of that earlier, lol.
 
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Heikou

Active Member
Standard Donor
South Carolina
Main Character
Kokoro
PSN ID
Onsen-no-Osen
Against superlight / lightweight, it looks like launching with 7K then going for 4PK4K or 4PKP then using (BT) 2P+K will force the opponent up if they try using a wakeup kick from level 2 to level 3 critical stun, or from SDS in level 1 or 2 critical stun.
This just makes the timing strict for using wakeup kicks. It also leaves you at a heavy disadvantage if you whiff 2P+K, so I'd say that if you want to keep momentum up, using 9P to refloat then PKP or BT 4PKP and force teching with 1KK is the better option. This basically just gives you a real advantage if the opponent decides to insta-tech, which you don't get with her normal enders since they knock back and reset it to a neutral game, but you have to deal with wakeup kicks when normally you don't have to.
 

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
California
Main Character
Ayane
Here is some wall oki I found, took about 5 minutes, lol.

For full walls after the wall combo;

P (whiff) > 1P (+26) > another ground strike (advantage will vary)

For half walls after the wall combo;

P (whiff) into delayed 2K (P2K string), +23 > another ground strike (advantage will vary)

The first ground hits do not auto force up but give you massive + frames if they tech up, if they don't they you can do another ground hit to force them up. For the P > 1P set up; if they tech up to avoid the 1P ground hit, they have to deal with 1PPP/1PP6P/1PT as string mix up as well as your free cancelled mix up. And 1PP hits all button presses.

The P2K forces people to respect that 2K low whether they get up or not because it's being delayed mid string
Which also means that if you know someone will tech up, you can mix up PK and P2K to further throw them off
They have to deal with the string mix up and free cancel mix up after P whiffs or P2K and P whiffs > 1P.

Eliminates WUK (wake up kick) opportunity.
 

Heikou

Active Member
Standard Donor
South Carolina
Main Character
Kokoro
PSN ID
Onsen-no-Osen
2KP has a kind of funny knockdown. Makes for some great oki in open space if you can time stuff properly.

After 2KP connects and knocks the opponent down, you can forward dash, and if the opponent insta-techs, you're at advantage. If they don't insta-tech, you can get a guaranteed force tech. Opponent can't WUK or tech if timed properly. It's absolutely possible to check and see whether or not they tech, so you get the advantage no matter what the opponent decides to do.

I like forward dashing and either using 236P+K or 3K if the opponent does insta-tech, and if they don't, I'll either use 2P+K or 1P to force tech them. If they don't press any buttons, 1P will just be a ground hit, but 2P+K will force them up. Just need to get the timing for it down.

Makes 2KP a hell of a lot more useful in open space.

I'm working on ways to end combos for good oki in open space right now, but not having a great time finding anything amazing.
 

Heikou

Active Member
Standard Donor
South Carolina
Main Character
Kokoro
PSN ID
Onsen-no-Osen
Alright, so, I haven't been looking much into tech lately. Just been trying to improve my fundamentals and understanding of other characters. This is sort of incomplete, but I'll go ahead and post it now in the hopes that there'll be some other posts in this thread.

Anti WUK force tech setups


Open space
End juggle with 2P+K, BT 2K

Wall (full)

6PPP - P (whiff) 1P / 2P+K
P2KP - slight delay, 236T 2P

Wall (half)

6PPP - P2K (P whiffs, delay 2K)
P2KP - 3K4K (3K whiffs)

Unholdables


Open space
End juggle with 2P+K, BT P6P (P whiffs, 6P is unholdable)
This setup is gimmicky. I'll explain why if anyone actually cares.

EDIT: This isn't unholdable. I don't know why I thought it was. I can't find any good unholdables from this. If any of you guys decide to look for or share unholdables, please update me so I can update this list or improve it.

Wall (full)
6PPP - 3P (whiff), 236P+K
P2KP - 236P (whiff), 236P+K

Wall (half)
6PPP - T (whiff), 3K
P2KP - I'll post this when I find a decent one


Kokoro has potential for unholdables and possibly anti WUK force tech setups after throws (and probably holds), but only when she throws the opponent against a wall. Almost all of her throws and holds put her just out of reach of wakeup kicks, and give her nice advantage when the opponent insta techs.
 
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The_King_Edo

Well-Known Member
Irving, tx.
Main Character
Honoka
PSN ID
Edoscoris333

Unholdables


Open space
End juggle with 2P+K, BT P6P (P whiffs, 6P is unholdable)
This setup is gimmicky. I'll explain why if anyone actually cares.
.
>:C I care, please explain, and sorry, it seems this thread has seemed a bit dead in the past few weeks, i'll be posting some combo's i found with kokoro that are a bit out of the usual xD Just haven't found a time to sitdown and post them here
 

The_King_Edo

Well-Known Member
Irving, tx.
Main Character
Honoka
PSN ID
Edoscoris333
Kokoro combos and setups

8P(17) 236P+K (18)

2K, T (Throw whiff) P+K, 6KP (Launch), 9PP2KP or 66P+K P+K P+K
Damage:91 (66P+K ender) 85 (9PP2KP Ender)

9PPP, 6KP, 9PP2KP or 66P+K, P+K, P+K
Damage: 91 (66P+K ender) 85 (9PP2KP Ender)

66P (Close hit: 36) (Normal hit: 24)

66P+K P+K 2P, 9P (Launch) 6KP, P2KP
Damage: 103

66P+K P+K 2P, 6KP, 66P+K P+K P+K
Damage: 109

236P (25)

Dash, 1K (Cancel into bt) BT 4K, 7K, 4P, 9PP2KP OR 66P+K P+K P+K
Damage: 88 (9PP2KP Ender *note might require a little dash before doing this ender in this combo*) 90 (66P+K Ender)

Dash 3K2P, 4P+K 9P (x3) P2KP
Damage:87

236T (Heichu throw) P (11)

4PPPP, Dash, 66P+K P+K P+K
Damage:70

8P6P (29)

Dash 3KP 66P+K (Free cancel) 2KP
Damage: 84

236P Dash 66P+K P+K P+K
Damage: 72

Dash 3K, 4P+K, 9P (x3) P2KP
Damage: 84

236P+K, P

8PP 9P (Free cancel) 66P+K P+K P+K
Damage: 84

I haven't yet put them to weight class and if someone can tell me a few characters to use for mid, light, heavy and super, ( I already know about alpha and rachel's weight class) When i think about more setups i'll be sure to post here, and just a few quick tech setup, (66P Or any attack that causes stun, 1P (x2) 1P, 1K, 7K, 236T 2P, (Crouch) 2P
 
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