Tempest
Well-Known Member
6P+K,214P and 1K are unholdable as well on a full wall with either of those setups.
DOA5U Kokoro force tech and tips thread
- Thread starter The_King_Edo
- Start date
6P+K,214P and 1K are unholdable as well on a full wall with either of those setups.
It's good to have some variety, I guess. 236P+K and 214P are probably the best options out of it since you either get really good block pressure or a reset to +0.
Tempest
Well-Known Member
Yeah I didn't there was much merit in the others besides 214p, but I wanted to check because sometimes even moves with the same start up frames don't connect.
BT P6P unholdable is gimmicky for a couple of reasons. It's a high, so the opponent can duck under it on wakeup or 2P out of it. On top of that, since it's similar to 8P, the opponent can interrupt it with a 13F or faster move (iirc) after it lands on block to beat all of the followup options.
EDIT: It's not unholdable. I dunno if anything is. My bad.
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Tbh, its hard to find unholdables that actually work... I've STILL been trying. and nothing as of yet.
However, Since I'm here I might as well make myself useful...
_____________________
Safe Psuedo FT Setup W/Psuedo Guarentee:
- [2H+KK ~ SS P+K]
[Explained]
- ONLY USE AFTER MAXIMUM THRESHOLD
- (First kick from H+K should knock them out Threshold)
[PROS]
- SS P+K will hit anyone that try to get up and try and interrupt this attack. You may want to use this near an wall.
- Only -4 after being blocked. (This was a hidden change. I swear I remember this being -5 in Ultimate.)
[CONS]
- Doesnt beat a WU ~ Mid P Hold.
- Doesnt beat wake up kicks.
Against a wall, I've found the best way to apply pressure is, after getting a wall splat and using a wall combo, forward dashing and using 1K(K) as a force tech. If timed properly, it beats out wakeup kicks. If they insta tech and you time it properly, the followup K will beat out anything aside from blocking, holding, or a very well timed sidestep. If they block, you get the block pressure Kokoro has from her 3K mixup, and if they hold, you can mix up using the followup K with other BT options (like BT P+K, 2P, 2K, P6P).
In open space, there's not really much you can do aside from end your combo in either 2P+K for the BT 2K force tech or 46PP for the 1P force tech. If they insta-tech, both of these options leave you with pretty decent frame advantage, though I wouldn't call them optimal since one leaves you BT, and the other leaves you at a range where you still have to respect some stuff you wouldn't if it left you closer. They both sacrifice a lot of damage on top of that.
In open space, there's not really much you can do aside from end your combo in either 2P+K for the BT 2K force tech or 46PP for the 1P force tech. If they insta-tech, both of these options leave you with pretty decent frame advantage, though I wouldn't call them optimal since one leaves you BT, and the other leaves you at a range where you still have to respect some stuff you wouldn't if it left you closer. They both sacrifice a lot of damage on top of that.
So, I was playing @Commmanda Panda a bit ago and he's done something very interesting with the new P+K. In threshold and counter hit, P+K is a faint stun, only 6P and 2P can connect during the stun's animation. However, you have potential force tech opportunities here as well.
P+K CH > 3K4K force tech's for +20 and leaves Kokoro, -8 if you tech. However, people are so unaware of this due to changes making it seem like P+K is nerfed (lol@that). I liked what I saw so I went to the lab and I see what Panda is doing here. In addition, you can do 2H+KK the same way. You can also do 2H+K-P+K2P for a force tech (and a nasty mix up if someone techs up).
So, it would seem P+K's trade off in frame trap and CH launcher was for extending stun threshold and/or tricky 50/50 ground set ups. I think this is a good pay off in balance.
Just something I thought I'd share, gives you guys something to play with.
P+K CH > 3K4K force tech's for +20 and leaves Kokoro, -8 if you tech. However, people are so unaware of this due to changes making it seem like P+K is nerfed (lol@that). I liked what I saw so I went to the lab and I see what Panda is doing here. In addition, you can do 2H+KK the same way. You can also do 2H+K-P+K2P for a force tech (and a nasty mix up if someone techs up).
So, it would seem P+K's trade off in frame trap and CH launcher was for extending stun threshold and/or tricky 50/50 ground set ups. I think this is a good pay off in balance.
Just something I thought I'd share, gives you guys something to play with.
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Thanapon Buamongkol
Member
The_King_Edo
Well-Known Member
Its weird in training to try a ft, just record the opponent in training and dont press anything for like 2 seconds then hold guard for about 5 seconds is what i do, the 2 seconds will let you stun them into a ft setup and the guard will replicate an actual match where the opponent will stay on the ground then do a WU kick
Record the dummy to do nothing, then set it to playback. This will allow the dummy behavior on the ground to behave as that of a human opponent.
Alright, I was leaving this thread alone for a little while to see if any other Kokoro players would find something neat. Doesn't look like anyone but Hajin's posted particularly useful setups, so I guess I'll go ahead and post what will likely be my last post in this thread.
Against a wall, the best force tech setup I have found with her so far would be the dash in 1KK. You can also just whiff P and use it in the same way as the wall splat force tech setup Hajin posted earlier (whiff P, 1P). This does depend on the combo ender and the type of wall you hit them into, though.
In open space, the best way to set up a force tech is end your combo with 9PP2KK. This does sacrifice some damage, but is useful in certain situations. After you end your combo with 9PP2KK, delay 1P. If they insta tech, the follow up P will either keep them honest, or force them to crush highs. If they do not insta tech, 1P will ground hit. If you don't delay 1P, it will whiff, so head into dojo and get the timing down. Same goes for 1KK setup mentioned previously. If they start to insta tech and crush highs, you can always force them to respect you by using 33P / 6KP / 3K and other stuff like that. Just make sure you time it all properly so it won't whiff. This requires time in dojo as well.
This open space force tech setup is the best I have found so far, and it looks like it's just as good as anything anyone else will find. You can find unholdable setups for it, however, it depends on how high you launch your opponent, and how quickly they fall, so not only does it depend on weight class, it also depends on stun level and the launcher used. That's why I won't be looking for unholdables. Also, I'm fairly certain that unholdable setups change depending on whether they back tech or tech to the side. Makes for a ridiculous number of different unholdables in different situations.
Against a wall, the best force tech setup I have found with her so far would be the dash in 1KK. You can also just whiff P and use it in the same way as the wall splat force tech setup Hajin posted earlier (whiff P, 1P). This does depend on the combo ender and the type of wall you hit them into, though.
In open space, the best way to set up a force tech is end your combo with 9PP2KK. This does sacrifice some damage, but is useful in certain situations. After you end your combo with 9PP2KK, delay 1P. If they insta tech, the follow up P will either keep them honest, or force them to crush highs. If they do not insta tech, 1P will ground hit. If you don't delay 1P, it will whiff, so head into dojo and get the timing down. Same goes for 1KK setup mentioned previously. If they start to insta tech and crush highs, you can always force them to respect you by using 33P / 6KP / 3K and other stuff like that. Just make sure you time it all properly so it won't whiff. This requires time in dojo as well.
This open space force tech setup is the best I have found so far, and it looks like it's just as good as anything anyone else will find. You can find unholdable setups for it, however, it depends on how high you launch your opponent, and how quickly they fall, so not only does it depend on weight class, it also depends on stun level and the launcher used. That's why I won't be looking for unholdables. Also, I'm fairly certain that unholdable setups change depending on whether they back tech or tech to the side. Makes for a ridiculous number of different unholdables in different situations.
Thanapon Buamongkol
Member
My FT version, not sure if this already mentioned before.
and
and
Thanapon Buamongkol
Member
Video for new Kokoro player, 3 moves for force tech in one match.
(1) 2K
(2) 6P+K
(3) 2P+K, 2K
(1) 2K
(2) 6P+K
(3) 2P+K, 2K
The_King_Edo
Well-Known Member
N
nice force techs, wall setups and combos, just an fyi you missed a bit of damage on that cb, best to do is 4P+K, K, 66P+K, P+K, P+K :3 Btw nice greats
nice force techs, wall setups and combos, just an fyi you missed a bit of damage on that cb, best to do is 4P+K, K, 66P+K, P+K, P+K :3 Btw nice greats
The_King_Edo
Well-Known Member
Don't you get P2KP On super light? Lol
jjinkou2
Well-Known Member
Working on force tech changed my understanding on some kokoro's moves, and gave me a strategy for my current games.
These strings (P2KP, K2P, and the like + 214P, 236T P+K with wall, ....) send people far far away, preventing you from keeping the momemtum.
But if you add the thing that kokoro excels at gap closing, wall damage, and wall forcetech, the strategy is obvious:
- Quickly send them to the walls with these moves (look also for moves with +1m wall in frame data)
- use your gap closing moves (33P, 66P, 8P, 1P, ...) or dash in
- then apply your wall techniques.
Yes , That's a generic strategy for all the characters. But that gives a new reading to the P2KP strings.
Don't end your combo with these moves without any purpose on your mind. Now use them to reach a wall.
These strings (P2KP, K2P, and the like + 214P, 236T P+K with wall, ....) send people far far away, preventing you from keeping the momemtum.
But if you add the thing that kokoro excels at gap closing, wall damage, and wall forcetech, the strategy is obvious:
- Quickly send them to the walls with these moves (look also for moves with +1m wall in frame data)
- use your gap closing moves (33P, 66P, 8P, 1P, ...) or dash in
- then apply your wall techniques.
Yes , That's a generic strategy for all the characters. But that gives a new reading to the P2KP strings.
Don't end your combo with these moves without any purpose on your mind. Now use them to reach a wall.
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Probably. I haven't really played in a minute (about 4 months).
Force teching is one of Kokoro's strong points
