Kokoro's Match-up Rating Discussion

jjinkou2

Well-Known Member
thanks i will try them for Jak and Hayate at labs.
:4::4::P::P: doesn't work regularly. So i will stick with :7::P: and what you have answered.

But there is a real gap between lab and a real opponent. When i see christie's pattern :6::6::P::P: it's always too late for my brain to react. I think it will improve with practice
 

Bushido

Well-Known Member
thanks i will try them for Jak and Hayate at labs.
:4::4::P::P: doesn't work regularly. So i will stick with :7::P: and what you have answered.

But there is a real gap between lab and a real opponent. When i see christie's pattern :6::6::P::P: it's always too late for my brain to react. I think it will improve with practice
Record the computer. As you are Christie, do some random strings, and throw out :6::6::P::P: at random. If you make the recording super long, then you won't really expect :6::6::P::P: because there is no pattern there. As an added bonus, you react to the other strings as well.
 

StrikerSashi

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
It's a shame DOA5U doesn't have slots for recording. I play Melty which lets you record multiple slots with the option of randomizing which slot is replayed. It's soooo useful.
 

jjinkou2

Well-Known Member
2) I don't think Kokoro has effective way to deal with that SS. 6PP help a bit but not good enough to rely on. The same problem or even worst with Bayman's SS OH.

As i was always eating Bayman's SS OH, i found that Kokoro's low hold :2::T: is more than correct to punish this.
 

StrikerSashi

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
Well, it's not that she doesn't have an answer. It's just that it's a lot riskier than something like Gen Fu 1P.
 

ScattereDreams

Well-Known Member
Eh you want to play defensively against characters who have special sidestep commands or else they'll walk all over Kokoro. Play defensively until you land a stun. Anticipating Bayman's tankroll or Christies Jaheiko stance correctly and PK will stop them similar to Rachel's PK anti SS move
 

jjinkou2

Well-Known Member
Continuing my quest as a novice knight, now i face the famous dragon gunner from :jannlee:. Since too much online foes like to throw it to me, i sat at the labs trying to find something really useful.

I tried many things but not really with great success. I know it's a OH so I can do a throw. But when you see it coming out from its cavern, it's too late to retaliate with a throw.

So I looked for something against the :6::H+K::4: that usually comes after. Nothing seems to work but the hold. However the hold works only 30% online. 70% of the time it's directly in my face.

Since i can't rely on this, i said to myself ok let's try to deal with the last part of the combo. And now i fall in the mind game that came after : either the mid-kick or the mid-punch.

So Paladins tell me how you hold your lance and pierce this dragon?
 

QueenJakheiho

Well-Known Member
The Dragon Gunner is a guessing tool and in Ultimate is that move nerfed about 4 frames its really easier to avoid as in vanilla. When you get the feeling the DG is coming crouch and follow with a throw punish.
 

jjinkou2

Well-Known Member
When i was mainning Helena i fewer face this pb, as i was always in bko stance and crouching a lot. But now it's common to face it as i stand up in guard.

The problem is, i don't have the feeling that is coming, so i'm trapped, and i want to get out of this net, dealing with something useful.
May be there isn't anything but feel. That would be annoying.

May be the answer lies in what you say about the nerf, i should rush more, and don't give him the time to do it.
 

StrikerSashi

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
If they really like using it, throw out 2H+K more often. It's -9 on neutral hit and -11 on block (I think) but it's not really punishable 'cause of the followups (even though everyone will stand block the second hit and get advantage). You crush highs and tech crouch throws and standing OH. It also gives you the perfect frames on counter hit to setup a 214T/66P mixup.
 
...

So Paladins tell me how you hold your lance and pierce this dragon?

I was destroyed by that dragon for a countless time. It is scary move to me as it has high potential to deal tons of damage. The 6H+K is guaranteed, against good player you can't hold as they will always timing it correctly. It is better to aim to hold the high punch/mid kick from dragon stance just after 6H+K, or try low hold to whiff high punch, however, it is not effective anyway as the good Jann Lee will just pull another Dragon Gunner or Throw you after you have shown successful hold from dragon stance.

This is my strategy against Dragon Gunner after he caught me. If I'm lucky, I might survive.

1. Guard : See if 6H+K connect or not. For the average Jann Lee player, there is some chance that you could block 6H+K but not from skillful one.

2. if 6H+K connect : Low hold. See if you could whiff high punch or not. If not, it is high chance to be mid kick. Keep in memory to mid kick hold next time instead of low hold. If it is mid punch or another Dragon Gunner, then my life is harder as much more parameter to guess hence smaller chance to survive.

If he switch between high punch and mid kick from dragon stance from time to time, my life is harder as well.

With the future patch, he will get his fastest mid punch back. And our life will be even more riskier against him.

PS. I use alternate PSN ID in order to keep playing on rank match and I think we have fought like more than 5 matches before (I'm not Kokoro). One of your obvious weakness is your 2H+KK as I mentioned earlier. Second, you seems to forget her best open up tools. Although you have good response to pull out 214T throw combo on hold spammer guy, however, you will have difficult time with guarding people.
 
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jjinkou2

Well-Known Member
thanks to all of you 3. now my quest can continue. i will try every answers and try to feel when it comes like a jedi. thank you thanapon for telling me my weaknesses. i tried to rely less on 2H+KK, but it is wired in my brain.
 
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StrikerSashi

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Premium Donor
Yeah, it's not a bad move but it's terrible at opening people who know how it works. Maybe you can trick some people with 2H+K 214T. :v
 

QueenJakheiho

Well-Known Member
2. if 6H+K connect : Low hold. See if you could whiff high punch or not. If not, it is high chance to be mid kick. Keep in memory to mid kick hold next time instead of low hold. If it is mid punch or another Dragon Gunner, then my life is harder as much more parameter to guess hence smaller chance to survive.

Normally after 6H+K every Jann Player uses a mid kick.
 

jjinkou2

Well-Known Member
Normally after 6H+K every Jann Player uses a mid kick.
You are true, every online players i met, used this following, so i tend to hold or block this mid kick.
But i saw videos of JL players that mix a lot. So like 2H+KK, i shouldn't rely too much on this, otherwise i could wired it again.
 

The_King_Edo

Well-Known Member
Genfu (i10/i11/i15) vs Kokoro (i10/i12/i13)

Genfu is very fast at i10 and i11, his low jab is slow but it is neutral (+0) on hit, -4 on block. His K is also fast at i11 and is a high kick. +4 on neutral and -9 on block. A really good tool for stun and for interrupting something (outside of his 6P). His 6P is his i11 mid punch, his 4P is i13 (4P6P is a very good block string and it retracks on side step attempts).

His 3P is also a mid punch, i15 frames, and is considered one of the best hi crushes in the game (for good reason). It's a lift stun on counter hit and in Criticual stun. Not exactly something you can stagger out of at all. As 3PP will just put you in his crumple stun, guaranteeing the rest of his follow ups into either a 3P relaunch for air throw into vortex OR crumple ground stun into 80-100 damage with a close hit.

3P's stun puts you into a lose lose situation. You cannot stagger out of it, because 3PP sits you on your ass, or 4P+K puts you into a faint stun and guarantees a 64P crumple ground stun for damage. You are put into a "must hold" situation if you are caught by Genfu's 3P lift stun.

His 3K is i14 and is a very good mid kick with follow ups. 3KPP ends with a high punch and guard breaks, 3KP6P ends with a mid punch but is throw punishable on block. 3K leads into good block string pressure, and forces you into a must hold situation because it has follow ups he can and will get away with if you don't hold. On hit, 3KPP guarantees him a 6PPP juggle. For 3KP6P on hit, he's guaranteed a 214PP follow up.

His 44P is a very good guard break. Linear and slow, but difficult to side step because it's hard to see when it actually is extended out to side step in time, and it's chargeable. It can be mixed into his block string pressure to break your blocking since you will not expect to see it. And it's extremely good when mixed into his vortex.

Guarantees him multiple follow ups to continue his offensive pressure, air throw into vortex, or just gets him damage.

He has a high AND mid parry. Both guarantee him an 8PP OR a 4P6P for Critical stun into a favorable mix up.

Genfu can shutdown a lot of Kokoro's offense. She has a sabaki and a mid punch sabaki. Her original sabaki is barely viable against him because his K is really good, and sabakis lose to throws. Her mid punch sabaki is throw punishable on block, and it's timing is far to strict to keep Genfu's 6P in check. Her lows lose to his 6P and his 4P. His 4P6P will counter hit her side step attempts for sure.

His 3P crushes her jab and high pressure too well. His jab AND his 6P counter hits her Heichu option selects clean outside of stun.

At range, she has more to fend him off than he does against her. But after getting so comfortable playing with Genfu, he does not have problems inching his way in on characters, especially because his 66P has very good hit priority and is only -5. His 214PP is also really good to step in with, stuns on neutral, and is only -4 on block with push back. All it really takes is good patience to get in with Genfu (Sweet Revenge will tell you the same thing and his Genfu is much better than mine). Being an Ayane main, she requires me to play patiently anyway. I carried that over to Genfu.

Kokoro can definitely fight Genfu, it's a matter of breaking his strong offense AND defensive game to keep him from doing so much. Because if he stuns you or throws you with 214H+P or 236H+P, things get shaken in his favor.
Yeah i'm not playing kokoro vs genfu now :( seems that kokoro can't do anything but get the shit beaten out of her in that MU, Time to look for a thread just like this one but on marie rose lol

I'm not missing any context. I told you exactly what Hitomi has for range and that they are effective even in this match up.

1KK is not good nor is it decent for range by any means. Neither is 8K.

Kokoro is not a rush down character, you can't even play rush down that effectively in this game, with most moves with good hit priority being negative (or so negative) on block. She has very good offensive tools, but she is not a rush down character, lol. Especially not when she's literally been slowed down in DOA5U.

2H+KK does not by any means justify rush down. It's not even intended to be used as a get in tool.

I think you really need to play some better players for better match up experience. You clearly cannot see how inaccurate your last post was (while others and myself can, which is why they originally liked my post in the first place). You're too busy worrying about "Context, context, context!".

Your OP even states that you have limited experience and knowledge about said character, especially since you "just recently picked up Kokopuffs." Since I had to come in here and correct two match ups for you.

Discuss the topic maturely.
Umm from what i've seen kokoro is a rush down character, if she's not a rush down character then what is she...... Lol =P

Just leave it alone. This is the Kokoro MU discussion thread.
Best Post i've seen on this thread yet, Ty lol
 
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iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Kokoro is a neutral defensive character that will only ever go offensive once she scores a harder hit (stun) to gain any momentum. There is no "rushdown" in DOA, that is an overly and loosely used term by players getting offensive momentum, and mistake that for a false impression (lots of folks misunderstand a lot of terms in this game).

Kokoro has many defensive intercept tools that are mistaken for offensive tools.
 
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The_King_Edo

Well-Known Member
Kokoro is a neutral defensive character that will only ever go offensive once she scores harder hit (stun) to gain any momentum. There is no "rushdown" in DOA, that is an overly and loosely used term by players getting offensive momentum, and mistake that for a false impression (misunderstand a lot of terms in this game).

Kokoro has many defensive intercept tools that are mistaken for offensive tools.

Kk thnx c:
 
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