DOA5U "Lisa, it's your birthday!" DOA5U Lisa General Discussion Thread

[Gruff757]

I pretty much use the same way I use (well not completely the same way)

withers away a bit of health due to it being a 2-in-1, and causes the opponent to be more alert to it, I also use it to to bait a run-in attempt to trip them up with (the delay on this string is absurd btw and I love it)

It is also a really good round-ender in my opinion.

Also, as I've stated ages ago, people tend to be more worried about to the point where they usually get tapped in the head by , despite it being pretty slow.

 

[Tempest]

I pretty much use the same way I use (well not completely the same way)

withers away a bit of health due to it being a 2-in-1, and causes the opponent to be more alert to it, I also use it to to bait a run-in attempt to trip them up with (the delay on this string is absurd btw and I love it)

It is also a really good round-ender in my opinion.

Also, as I've stated ages ago, people tend to be more worried about to the point where they usually get tapped in the head by , despite it being pretty slow.

also has a great crouching hitbox that can make it a good tool to use in the neutral game against a certain characters with fast, long highs, like Hitomi.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Despite being about i21, I'd say 1K is arguably Lisa's best low. Along with what has been mentioned, it's essentially used the same way as Bass' 1P~ strings: To condition the opponent to not press buttons after getting tagged with the initial hit. Being instant hi-crushes definitely alleviates the speed issue increasing their usefulness.

 

[Gruff757]

Despite being about i21, I'd say 1K is arguably Lisa's best low. Along with what has been mentioned, it's essentially used the same way as Bass' 1P~ strings: To condition the opponent to not press buttons after getting tagged with the initial hit. Being instant hi-crushes definitely alleviates the speed issue increasing their usefulness.

I'd say 2nd best behind BT
the only drawback of BT is that you have to be bt to do it haha

 

[Force_of_Nature]

I'd say 2nd best behind BT
the only drawback of BT is that you have to be bt to do it haha

Yeah pretty much. Being able to use 1K from neutral makes it a bit handier. BT2P is cool and complements her BT game nicely.

 

[Tempest]

Despite being about i21, I'd say 1K is arguably Lisa's best low. Along with what has been mentioned, it's essentially used the same way as Bass' 1P~ strings: To condition the opponent to not press buttons after getting tagged with the initial hit. Being instant hi-crushes definitely alleviates the speed issue increasing their usefulness.

Nah, like gruff said, BT2p is a lot better. From FT you have 66PK and 2k (which has guaranteed followups in stun which is pretty nice for a low). I like 1k but like many of Lisa's tools, an observant player is going to blow you up really hard for making a habit out of it. 1K's risk reward is really just kind of lacking since 1k2k doesn't really provide you with much and 1kk has really shitty followups on the off chance your opponent eats move that takes more than half a second to land.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Nah, like gruff said, BT2p is a lot better. From FT you have 66PK and 2k (which has guaranteed followups in stun which is pretty nice for a low). I like 1k but like many of Lisa's tools, an observant player is going to blow you up really hard for making a habit out of it. 1K's risk reward is really just kind of lacking since 1k2k doesn't really provide you with much and 1kk has really shitty followups on the off chance your opponent eats move that takes more than half a second to land.

BT2P needs to be set up, but yeah, it is a great low from BT. 66PK is also surprisingly sneaky and is a good way to enter BT (though its effectiveness can go down a bit the more its abused). 2K or 2KK are also nice thanks to the safety on the second hit. 2KK is actually one of my favourite lows (since the second hit is pretty much like 3K or 3K4). The thing that I like about 1K is that the string can easily stop an opponent in its tracks due to them have to respect all the follow-ups from the string if you're delaying and mixing them up well. The instant hi-crush capability and the ability to use it from neutral helps 1K a lot too. However, I will admit that the overall reward could be better, but tagging people with 1KK is fun lol. It's too difficult to react to either 1K2K or 1KK, thus meaning that the follow-up will only be held on read for the most part.

 

[Tempest]

BT2P needs to be set up, but yeah, it is a great low from BT. 66PK is also surprisingly sneaky and is a good way to enter BT (though its effectiveness can go down a bit the more its abused). 2K or 2KK are also nice thanks to the safety on the second hit. 2KK is actually one of my favourite lows (since the second hit is pretty much like 3K or 3K4). The thing that I like about 1K is that the string can easily stop an opponent in its tracks due to them have to respect all the follow-ups from the string if you're delaying and mixing them up well. The instant hi-crush capability and the ability to use it from neutral helps 1K a lot too. However, I will admit that the overall reward could be better, but tagging people with 1KK is fun lol. It's too difficult to react to either 1K2K or 1KK, thus meaning that the follow-up will only be held on read for the most part.

Unless it's the end of the round and it's a hold or die situation, your opponent will be looking for 1kk, since it's slow and has actual reward. 1k2k just gives you some really mediocre oki. If your opponent can't hold 1kk on reaction he's unfamiliar with the matchup. There's no reason to risk getting thrown by Lisa to make a read that will save you from taking an extra 20 damage or so. It's not a bad tool but Lisa has better things to do with frame advantage and better crushes.

Lisa has actually scary tools that warrant respect but 1k followups are not among them.

 

[Lulu]

I only use when I'm cornered.... and I mean literally cornered, if I'm just backed up against the wall I'l just on it and off it.

If I have the space I prefer to crush with , it doesn't have the same momentum stopping power as but it is better on counter hit.

I set up my BTs by whiffing then going for ..... although it is better if is blocked.

If I had to be honest, La Mariposa's High Crushes are Awful. Shes more of a Jumper than a Squatter.... Haha.

 

[Tones]

BT 2p 6pp CB =). Catches everyone.

I use pp4 to set up my 2p.

 

[ailingeternity]

Shes more of a Jumper than a Squatter.... Haha.

HAHAHA XD

If I had to be honest, La Mariposa's High Crushes are Awful.

Her crushes are extremely vital to her pressure game, without them she would be trash. On NH her high crushes have a poor payoff but landing them on CH is where she really shines since she can rack up CB really fast and also has strong throw punishment options to counteract holders, getting opponents to a critical burst ready state is where her true potential is unleashed because of her significantly strong options for damage that are available such as Deja Vu, (CB), BT (CB) etc. and BT are some of your greatest friends since they are so good for helping her achieve that.

 

[Lulu]

HAHAHA XD

Her crushes are extremely vital to her pressure game, without them she would be trash. On NH her high crushes have a poor payoff but landing them on CH is where she really shines since she can rack up CB really fast and also has strong throw punishment options to counteract holders, getting opponents to a critical burst ready state is where her true potential is unleashed because of her significantly strong options for damage that are available such as Deja Vu, (CB), BT (CB) etc. and BT are some of your greatest friends since they are so good for helping her achieve that.

I think I need deeper stuns from mid attacks other than the Critical Bursts.... I actually haven't gotten accustomed to all her moves yet, my road to Ctitcal Burst is often a preplanned set up, it's not as free form as my Tina and Rachel days.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

I think I need deeper stuns from mid attacks other than the Critical Bursts.... I actually haven't gotten accustomed to all her moves yet, my road to Ctitcal Burst is often a preplanned set up, it's not as free form as my Tina and Rachel days.

You don't really need to CB with Lisa too much since her stun-launch is decent, along with air throws not damage scaling. I like BT4P for quick launch damage. And of course if you can hit a couple Deja Vu's, especially on hi-counter, they're life bar will crumple. Try initiating the stun game with 1PK or 236K4. If you CH the opponent, you're left in a great spot.

 

[Tones]

Her crushes are extremely vital to her pressure game, without them she would be trash.

elaborate.

 

[Lulu]

You don't really need to CB with Lisa too much since her stun-launch is decent, along with air throws not damage scaling. I like BT4P for quick launch damage. And of course if you can hit a couple Deja Vu's, especially on hi-counter, they're life bar will crumple. Try initiating the stun game with 1PK or 236K4. If you CH the opponent, you're left in a great spot.

I just like the load explosive sound of a critical burst
I also need to get use to& actually I was experimenting with Page 2 of the move details, I was using the height details plus the recovery frames of the moves to see if this stuff actually made a difference. It does.... to a certain degree. a Raw doesn't allow a follow compared to a raw does... I don't remember for which weight class.

 

[Lulu]

There is something with Lisa that I personally just haven't been able to make useful. Her dodge into back turn. I can't find a good reason to do it. If any of you have found anything, even if you consider it a gimmick, I would appreciate it being posted. i just don't want to believe that it can't be used strategically. Especially if I'm blind to it what ever that may be. So thanks in advance.

All right so with out knowing exactly how long a Side Step is I can't be certain.... but I do believe there is a use for SS..... its too help you have access to Lisa's BT moves more quickly..... now I know what you're thinking... isn't that what is for.... well yes it is. But thats for if you have the Space For it.

My theory is SS is for if you don't have the space but need to access BT moves..... but unlike , the moves you want from after performing a Side Step are crushes... Namely Lisa's BT and especially her BT....
It just seems like they go together well with the Side Step.... the Side Step is an Evasive move.... and BT is a an Excellent Crush move because it goes high enough to avoid some short range Mid Attacks, BT on the Hand crushes both Highs and Lows.... not at the same time obviously but its still a move to be reckoned with.... in theory. Put that all together and you have a strategy that consists of first avoiding Linear Strikes... possibly granting you enough advantage to make slower moves that avoid Circular Strikes alot more viable.

Thats best I can come up with.....
I just can't be certain because I don't know how many frames the Side Step is..... but that doesn't mean I can't test it.....

I'l report back if I learn something.

 

[Gruff757]

i just use the SS to mess with people in stun lol

 

[Lulu]

i just use the SS to mess with people in stun lol

There is a bit of nuance to Lisa's BT Shenanigans.

Using page 3 of the move details I was able to find out that Lisa's turns her around in 8 Frames.... but her SS turns her around in 7 Frames (but only after the side step Cancel interval window)

If I could just get more accurate data then I genuinely believe this could be very usefull

 

[Gruff757]

SS is 26 frames, SS is 28 frames

so if you land a and go straight into SS, you will be left at +11 or +12 depending on the distance, if the opponent Slow Escapes(fastest), you will be left at +1 or +2 depending on the distance.

and if you do SS , it would be +9, +10/ -1,0

its still pretty gimmicky unless you can get your opponent to quit hitting buttons, which will also open up your throws

Edit: If they start slow escaping, you can go straight into and be at the same advantage as non se'd > SS

 

[Lulu]

Really ? I thought SS was exactly 20 Frames... I mean the game does say the Side Step Follow Up Interval starts a 13 Frames and it takes 7 Frames for Lisa to turn around.

Ofcourse that page never gives you the exact recovery of certain moves..... they just tell you when the window opens and closes.