FatalxInnocence
Well-Known Member
I'd answer this question, but I honestly have no clue what a lift stun is... I can tell you what her sit-down stuns are but I'm pretty sure everybody knows the answer to that one.
Characters Lolicopter - [Marie Rose Information & Discussion Thread]
- Thread starter Brute
- Start date
I'd answer this question, but I honestly have no clue what a lift stun is... I can tell you what her sit-down stuns are but I'm pretty sure everybody knows the answer to that one.
A lift stun is a stun that causes the opponent's chin to jump up, hence the alternative moniker "uppercut stun," as it looks like they were hit with an uppercut. Lift stuns are useful because they typically last 60 frames and are some of the deepest stuns in the game (you usually don't get a full +60 from them, however, since you have to factor in the recovery frames of the move you used to initiate it). Nevertheless, they provide over 23 frames of stun even if the opponent executes the fastest possible stagger escape, and are thus common lead-ins to critical bursts.
If you tell me some characters you use, I can give you a few examples of attacks they use that cause lift stuns.
I'm not sure if you're familiar with Hayabusa, but a few of his are 6K, 6P+K, 8P (NH), 3P (CH), & ongyoin 6P. You can see Hayabusa's 6K cause a lift stun at 0:48 in this video, as well as at 0:58.
I'd actually love to hear 'em. I remember ones like KK, but if I forgot any, it'd be nice to know.
Oh, and I doubt you'd know the frames, but if you do know how long any of the sit-down stuns last, I'd love that info, too.
FatalxInnocence
Well-Known Member
I can't really give much apart from KK & 3P+KK. They appear to be her only sit-down stuns. As for the length of them, well without the training information up it's kind of hard to say. I've noticed that nobody counters a 6P off the KK when it hits, so I'm guessing that is guaranteed off the KK sit-down. 8K might be a definite launch as well since most of her ADV. Counters lead to a guaranteed 8K + they put the opponent in sit-down.
Going from that animation in the video you sent, 9K seems to put them in that chin up state- so that may be a lift stun. I've seen a similar animation with 8K and PPK when they hit naturally. 8K however within the stun threshold launches, so I'm guessing on nh it puts them in a lift stun, or possibly when they're crouching which may make it useless.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm22994670 < - 03:15 ~ Is that a lift stun? Never heard of them prior to... well just now! so I may or may not be right about them. Still, it's a new video to watch regardless which is never a bad thing ;D
Yup! That looks like a lift stun! So that's 9K, right? Meaning we get an option K follow-up, and that the BT transition is optional?
And yeah, a lot of CH/stun launchers will cause lift stuns on NH. Hitomi's 9K is an example of this, as well as Lei Fang's 66K and Hayabusa's 8P.
And yeah, a lot of CH/stun launchers will cause lift stuns on NH. Hitomi's 9K is an example of this, as well as Lei Fang's 66K and Hayabusa's 8P.
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FatalxInnocence
Well-Known Member
Yeah. I've seen some interesting mix ups from her 9K BT. The BT throw seems to guarantee a H+K. But you can also CB from her BT... or the additional mid k option after 9K. Seems like one of the tools of hers I'd be utilizing a lot whilst my opponent is in stun with her.
Oh, really? That's news to me! thanks for that! =D
Princess Kasumi
Well-Known Member
so 18 days left?
isnt her 4k a lift stun too?
Her 236P seems good, long range, 17i buuut it doesnt seem as good as ayane's 236K. ayane gets more dmg and 16i ?
isnt her 4k a lift stun too?
Her 236P seems good, long range, 17i buuut it doesnt seem as good as ayane's 236K. ayane gets more dmg and 16i ?
It's not on NH. Dunno about CH. Seems like a weird move animation-wise to 'cause a lift stun, but hopefully it does. Mid K lift stuns are the best. I can speak from experience.
*cough* Brad Wong's 236P *cough*
It translates to something along the lines of, "Don't underestimate me just because I'm small!"
The translation is off, but it's not terrible.
FatalxInnocence
Well-Known Member
I don't think it is. Even on CH it just makes them hold their stomach. ( Or is that animation a lift stun as well? )
No, it isn't.
Lift stun -> Izuna
Hayabusa BnB
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FatalxInnocence
Well-Known Member
Lift stuns don't have guaranteed follow ups, right? They're just deeper stuns? I'm guessing sit-downs are better? As most sit-down stuns actually have guaranteed follow ups.
Marie seems like one of those characters you don't want to be in stun with once she's BT. One thing I'm curious about, is her BT H+K and it's properties prior to launching. Will it have the same affect as the 7K BT H+K combo? or is the move an instant knock-down with no launcher prior to using the move....
Least for the most part we know what her combos are. Seems like even off a minimal height 8K launch you can get a 6PP PP6PK and off a minimal height 7K you get a BT H+K BT KKK.
I think I'll be using her 6K4K more than 6PP though. It honestly looks cooler. Not sure why the JPN players don't use it more. Seems like a staple wall combo too.
~ Also does anyone notice how unreliable the current JPN burst combo is? the CB 7K 4K 4PP PP6PK... the end part seems to whiff a fair amount. I feel like after the first 4K your best bet is to go into 6K4K PP6PK, but that's just me. 4PP seems unreliable in a combo.... we'll see what happens though I guess.
Marie seems like one of those characters you don't want to be in stun with once she's BT. One thing I'm curious about, is her BT H+K and it's properties prior to launching. Will it have the same affect as the 7K BT H+K combo? or is the move an instant knock-down with no launcher prior to using the move....
Least for the most part we know what her combos are. Seems like even off a minimal height 8K launch you can get a 6PP PP6PK and off a minimal height 7K you get a BT H+K BT KKK.
I think I'll be using her 6K4K more than 6PP though. It honestly looks cooler. Not sure why the JPN players don't use it more. Seems like a staple wall combo too.
~ Also does anyone notice how unreliable the current JPN burst combo is? the CB 7K 4K 4PP PP6PK... the end part seems to whiff a fair amount. I feel like after the first 4K your best bet is to go into 6K4K PP6PK, but that's just me. 4PP seems unreliable in a combo.... we'll see what happens though I guess.
Unless it's a natural combo, then no.
Basically, though there are a few frames just after the lift-stun where they can't hold. Not enough to guarantee any attacks, but it has useful yomi application.
Yes and no. For example, if I'm at critical level 2 w/ Busa (which I greatly prefer to enter with a lift stun), I can opt for Another lift stun or a long sitdown stun. The sitdown guarantees a CB. That is my option should I go the sitdown route. It's my best option in every scenario, really. But if I opt for another lift stun, that puts them on the threshold for a CB. If they try and hold out of the CB, I can get an additional 120+ points of damage from a HiC throw, which is more damage than I will get from a post-CB juggle. I can also opt for a mid K mini-launch, a mid K bound, a mid P CB, a high jab then CB or a high launch. So I get a lot more options from the lift stun, some more damage than from the sitdown. But, it is definitely riskier.
In general lift stuns also have faster execution frames than heavy sit-down stuns do. Unless you're dumb like Gen Fu or w/e.
Well, her BT 4P is a mid P lift stun, at least on NH. i20, -12.
Is her 8K really a mid? It doesn't look or feel like it should be, but the frame data lists it as one.
FatalxInnocence
Well-Known Member
Ooooh! ok! Very informative. Thank you.
BT 4P launches on stun though (I'm pretty sure). I know it launches off her 3P+KK. I don't know if I'd be down for risking a nh BT 4P considering it's frames on block. But that's just me personally.
Yep! It's a mid kick. Which I'm thankful for already hahaha. She has 7K as her high launcher, and her CB is mid punch, she needs a mid kick for launch variety and thankfully she has one! =D
No problemo.
This seems to be a trend with her. She already has a lot of launchers. I'd prefer more deep stuns, myself.
Mid kick is preferable to high kick, but I still wish it stunned on CH instead of launched.
I know, I know; I'm just stuck in the grappler mindset. xD
Still, very good to know. Thanks.
FatalxInnocence
Well-Known Member
Well, you got your 9K for when you want that type of stun. It's still a great option. You can also sabaki cancel off it supposedly according to the movelist. So 9K4PP/K or sabaki feint into something else. I see me using it a fair amount. She's also got her BT 2K trip thing. BT CB, BT throw, BT 4P if you want to try launch instead.... also got her BT 4K4 sabaki hahaha everything into sabaki.
I'm going to have so much fun with her sabaki cancels. I wouldn't want to become too predictable with them though.
edit; I'm also noticing her BT KK has pretty quick recovery frames, so if you want a quick high jab out of 9K that also evades lows this would be useful!
Yeah, my only hesitation there is that it's a high. And I have a funny feeling that when people realize she has a lot of good highs and OHs, they'll start ducking/low holding a lot. Having a mid K lift stun on CH is a wonderful, wonderful thing. I can say this from much experience.
FatalxInnocence
Well-Known Member
That's a good point, most of Kokoro's ( since I now know what a lift stun is now thanks to you, Koko seemingly has a fair amount of them! 9P & 8P, her 8P6P is a lift stun into a sit-down rofl... I barely see people use it though. I wonder why? ) are highs. But the beauty if 9K with Marie is it has a mid follow up. So it may be a low hold/crouch to escape but the follow ups of it have to be respected either way.
9KK will force people to stand to block the mid kick, which will give way for a BT throw or 9K4P guard cancel continue pressure or throw them. I feel punch throwing is going to be a vital in her offense since she lacks decent lows.