Marie Rose Safety

Seppu

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United Kingdom
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Brad Wong
Why would you ever hold guard after using a parry that has safe follow ups. Its there to stop people from punishing you for throwing out 6K on block because 6K is -9 on block as is 6KK. Lol.... I'm done. 6K4 is again -4 IE you cannot throw punish the person. Try to throw punish and she can use any move from Rondo and they'll HCH'd all day. 6K4P HCH'd sweet free 3H+K all day for me. :) And if you're worried about 6K4P being blocked that's -4 too so again no throw punishment. Its a win win situation if they choose to try and throw you or block up and block the Rondo P anyways.
again we're talking about the moves on their own, not bt, not follow-ups. i don't recall mentioning throw punishing either, only interrupting, and all three of those options can be interrupted = unsafe.

i don't see why you can't understand that they're -19 and -16, not -4 and -1... if you do the twirl you're going to get hit no matter what, but by all means use those moves against others online and get stunned because of it.
Seppu is right here. Don't trust that frame data in training mode ;) (It does say -1 and -4 )
/argument
 

HoodsXx

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again we're talking about the moves on their own, not bt, not follow-ups. i don't recall mentioning throw punishing either, only interrupting, and all three of those options can be interrupted = unsafe.

i don't see why you can't understand that they're -19 and -16, not -4 and -1... if you do the twirl you're going to get hit no matter what, but by all means use those moves against others online and get stunned because of it.

/argument
When you talk about something being unsafe that'd usually mean safe from punishment IE throws not strikes. Obviously you'll get hit if you try to stop them from hitting a button. But again its used to stop solely throw punishment as well as parry punches in case someone decides to hit a button that's not a punch. If they do however they're getting parried none the less. The OP made this thread solely for using moves that can't be throw punished so I contributed.
 

Seppu

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United Kingdom
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Brad Wong
technically the moves you mentioned can be throw punished though, as any follow-ups count as a different move. it's just part of the guessing game.

and i tried marie's 10 frame high and 12 frame mid after guarding, as well as lows and kicks, and nothing was getting parried. the guard stun on those moves are long, so by the time you're able to strike again, the parry is already over and marie is recovering.
 
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Prince Adon

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Okay Hoodsx, you're right and you're wrong. While Marie Rose is left at -4/-1 during those transitions, she can be strike punished with a kick on reaction. So it's one of the very few moves in the game that is strike punishable. She can't be thrown, or striked with a punch, but it doesn't factor in her transition recovery from her parry. So if she doesn't go into the parry you can throw her, and if she does you can strike punish the parry with a kick. So it's not safe. Now we can get on with our regular program, because Adon is always right.
 
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MasterHavik

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Chicago, IL
Main Character
Zack
Okay Hoodsx, you're right and you're wrong. While Marie Rose is left at -4/-1 during those transitions, she can be strike punished with a kick on reaction. So it's one of the very few moves in the game that is strike punishable. She can't be thrown, or striked with a punch, but it doesn't factor in her transition recovery from her parry. So if she doesn't go into the parry you can throw her, and if she does you can strike punish the parry with a kick. So it's not safe. Now we can get on with our regular program, because Adon is always right.
Strike punishable? didn't know that exist in this game...I wish there was more of it.
 

Brute

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Standard Donor
I strike punish whiffed attacks, but on block, the only time I'll strike punish is if I think a throw punish won't work (ie: they may continue a string, fuzzy, free-cancel strike, etc.) The only time a strike will be guaranteed on block if I want to go for it is if they're at -17, since that will guarantee my fastest stun. but like -13 is all throw punish, since my jab is lame on NH.
 

StrikerSashi

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Yeah, the times when you'd consider a strike punish, you can generally get 62+ guaranteed damage. I'd rather take the guaranteed damage over hitting them with a 6P or something.

EDIT: Except stuff like Rose's butt. I'm hitting that.
 
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Prince Adon

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Strike punishable? didn't know that exist in this game...I wish there was more of it.
There are plenty of it. For example; Momiji's 8k is strike punishable if you have a 10 frame or higher (you can't throw it regardless of it being -12). Lei Fang's 4P+K parriy is strike punishable, and also whiff punishing is strike punishment.

For those that Do NOT understand what punishment means, it is when a opponent do something so unsafe(rather it whiffs, or on block) you get a free strike, or throw. They can't hold, they can't block, they can't SS, they can't stagger escape, it's not a risk. If you're striking a attack that leaves your opponent the possibility to block, or hold that is NOT punishment.
 
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StrikerSashi

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Well, it's not that it can't be done. It's just usually not worth it in my opinion. Unless I have a Gen Fu 16P or something, throw is usually more guaranteed damage and strike is an entry into stun if you're lucky and have a quick stun starter or they did something REAAAAALLY unsafe.
 
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Prince Adon

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Well, it's not that it can't be done. It's just usually not worth it in my opinion. Unless I have a Gen Fu 16P or something, throw is usually more guaranteed damage and strike is an entry into stun if you're lucky and have a quick stun starter or they did something REAAAAALLY unsafe.
Punishing, rather it's a strike or throw is always worth it as long as you know what, when and how to punish.
 
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StrikerSashi

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Well, I'm only saying it's not worth it 'cause I can throw punish instead. In general, strikes are a lot slower than throws and do less damage (per hit). The only reason why throws don't get mashed are 'cause they lose to strikes. If the other guy is in a situation where he can't strike, I can't justify using a strike to punish instead of using a throw, unless if I have a strike that does massive damage, gives a really good sit down stun on NH, etc. Like if the other guy charges Leifang 1P+K out of range, I'll strike punish the eventual whiff with a power blow. That's literally the only sort of situation I can think of where I'd strike punish instead of throw punish.
 

iHajinShinobi

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Well, I'm only saying it's not worth it 'cause I can throw punish instead. In general, strikes are a lot slower than throws and do less damage (per hit). The only reason why throws don't get mashed are 'cause they lose to strikes. If the other guy is in a situation where he can't strike, I can't justify using a strike to punish instead of using a throw, unless if I have a strike that does massive damage, gives a really good sit down stun on NH, etc. Like if the other guy charges Leifang 1P+K out of range, I'll strike punish the eventual whiff with a power blow. That's literally the only sort of situation I can think of where I'd strike punish instead of throw punish.
Adon is correct, if you KNOW something is throw punishable on block (or closely whiffs enough for an i12 throw), you throw the unsafety. If you KNOW something is strike punishable (or whiffs in strike range), you punish the unsafety with a strike.

If I block Leifang's 3P+K, I am going to 6PP the fuck out of her with Ayane because she can't do anything about it. I'm getting 74 damage for doing so, instead of the usual 50+ for throwing it. Same for Ayane's BT 6H+K and 7K/BT7K, you SHOULD be strike punishing this stuff instead of throwing it.

Strike and throw punishment is simply that, punishing the opponent's risks. If you KNOW something can be throw punished, you are not at risk. If you KNOW something can be strike punished, you are not at risk. Both forms of punishment are most certainly worth it. Throw punishment just so happens to be the more common (and natural) form of punishment in DOA.
 

StrikerSashi

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Right, that's what I'm saying. I'm not saying there aren't things that are better to strike punish, but in situations where you can either throw punish or strike punish, it's usually more damage to throw. Obviously if they're back turned or if they have their back to the wall, it's a different matter.
 
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iHajinShinobi

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Right, that's what I'm saying. I'm not saying there aren't things that are better to strike punish, but in situations where you can either throw punish or strike punish, it's usually more damage to throw. Obviously if they're back turned or if they have their back to the wall, it's a different matter.
No, I'll actually legitimately strike punish Jannlee, Eliot, Pai and Rig's dragon kicks as well after ducking them on reaction with Ayane's 4K. Like I said, if you know something can be strike punished, take the free damage.
 

iHajinShinobi

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I am saying if I know something can be strike punished, I will strike it. That's what I've been saying the entire time, if I KNOW something can be striked or thrown, I will do the correct punishment. This is why training mode is so essential to the game, lol.
 
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