Meter: Yay or nay?

[NewWestFan]

Also I just read "When using a break hold remember that the damage is minor. It's primary use is to get out of hard situations. Using the breakhold will not allow you to use the break blow in the same round." From their official NA social media accounts.

That changes a few things.

 

[Raansu]

I think the CB was actually good in DOA5, because it was such a risk pulling it off. You had to constantly change strategies to get your launchers in and I love that mind game setup. It's so fun and gratifying ! But I agree 100% ! If this is the mechanic and system that's gonna stay in DOA6, veteran players will be able to get such good launchers and do a great deal of damage from 1 combo. It needs to be holdable or something needs to happen to this mechanic, so it is implemented into DOAs triangle system.

My concern with FR and meter is its just going to dumb the game down in the ways DoA4 did. The meter builds so fast that its going to be nothing but fishing for chances to hit a FR string to force a player to use the break hold or baiting out to use a break blow because it has a sabaki built into it. Feel like everyone is going to play the same meta just like how DoA4 was.

I just in general think this meter is a bad idea. At least with power blows it was only there at 50% health and it took somewhat of a setup to reliably pull off. I get that TN seems to what a special move that has more of an impact and is used more often as the power blows were used very little and power launchers was basically just to show off, but making powerful mechanics easier to pull off is just not healthy for a game imo. It should require quite a bit of effort to use a move that takes nearly 50% of your health, which again is why I think power blows were ok.

 

[NewWestFan]

My concern with FR and meter is its just going to dumb the game down in the ways DoA4 did. The meter builds so fast that its going to be nothing but fishing for chances to hit a FR string to force a player to use the break hold or baiting out to use a break blow because it has a sabaki built into it. Feel like everyone is going to play the same meta just like how DoA4 was.

I just in general think this meter is a bad idea. At least with power blows it was only there at 50% health and it took somewhat of a setup to reliably pull off. I get that TN seems to what a special move that has more of an impact and is used more often as the power blows were used very little and power launchers was basically just to show off, but making powerful mechanics easier to pull off is just not healthy for a game imo. It should require quite a bit of effort to use a move that takes nearly 50% of your health, which again is why I think power blows were ok.

Who knows. Maybe FR can only be used once a round. It looks like they're not being stupid and are already putting a limit on BB and BH. If you're a stickler for wording in the quote I just mentioned they said "Using the breakhold" not using "a" breakhold.

So if we can extrapolate from that you get either a Breakhold or a Breakblow and you only get one, that would mean that FR would probably follow the same rules yeah?

 

[Raansu]

Who knows. Maybe FR can only be used once a round. It looks like they're not being stupid and are already putting a limit on BB and BH. If you're a stickler for wording in the quote I just mentioned they said "Using the breakhold" not using "a" breakhold.

So if we can extrapolate from that you get either a Breakhold or a Breakblow and you only get one, that would mean that FR would probably follow the same rules yeah?

No, because we've already seen people using FR multiple times in a round and using full meter's multiple times. Whether that changes in a later build or not we'll find out at evo, but right now my concerns are still that the game is just going to come down to fishing to force meter usage. I'd rather force a break hold then get smacked with a break blow.

 

[NewWestFan]

No, because we've already seen people using FR multiple times in a round and using full meter's multiple times. Whether that changes in a later build or not we'll find out at evo, but right now my concerns are still that the game is just going to come down to fishing to force meter usage. I'd rather force a break hold then get smacked with a break blow.

Hmmm.... Yeah you're right. I'm going to just stop trying to over analyze the footage we have and wait patiently for more material. Dunno why I'm even concerning myself with the new game coming out when I'm so rusty at 5 right now I can't even win neutral with Lisa at all online at the moment.

 

[Radiance]

A lot of good discussion here; I definitely agree that Team Ninja seems lost in figuring out what route they want to go with DOA6. This trend of creating mechanics that cater to new players imo is ruining fg’s. There is no longer any neutral or there has to be some “comeback” factor. In the long run, the majority of these new players that the mechanics were made for usually don’t stick around and it’s generally the same veterans from previous iterations that end up being in top 8 again.

 

[Leifang12]

A lot of good discussion here; I definitely agree that Team Ninja seems lost in figuring out what route they want to go with DOA6. This trend of creating mechanics that cater to new players imo is ruining fg’s. There is no longer any neutral or there has to be some “comeback” factor. In the long run, the majority of these new players that the mechanics were made for usually don’t stick around and it’s generally the same veterans from previous iterations that end up being in top 8 again.

This is my point exactly earlier ! Casual/new fans don't stick around because of the WOW factor that one move gives. They stick around because of a general interest in learning a Fighting games mechanics and want's to dive into it head on. That's why it is hard to sell fighting games to the masses these days, as I stared earlier. People have a very short learning curve and want's to be good immediately. And fighting games don't give that reward as fast as a MMO og mobile game does!

 

[illninofan]

This is my point exactly earlier ! Casual/new fans don't stick around because of the WOW factor that one move gives. They stick around because of a general interest in learning a Fighting games mechanics and want's to dive into it head on. That's why it is hard to sell fighting games to the masses these days, as I stared earlier. People have a very short learning curve and want's to be good immediately. And fighting games don't give that reward as fast as a MMO og mobile game does!

I don't know about you, but I've never found those types of games exciting. I rather enjoy the consistent effort needed to memorize several strings of input, and to pick apart the mechanics. These things can chase off anyone who doesn't learn to love patience. Silly as it sounds, fighting games scare most people. Steep learning curve, and the prospect of humiliation will do that. I'm sticking around because I enjoy breaking down and analyzing these games, they're exciting puzzles. To tie it back into the topic, meter just presents another new piece of the puzzle (the last time I played a game with meter was Alpha 3...long time ago).

 

[NewWestFan]

I don't know about you, but I've never found those types of games exciting. I rather enjoy the consistent effort needed to memorize several strings of input, and to pick apart the mechanics. These things can chase off anyone who doesn't learn to love patience. Silly as it sounds, fighting games scare most people. Steep learning curve, and the prospect of humiliation will do that. I'm sticking around because I enjoy breaking down and analyzing these games, they're exciting puzzles. To tie it back into the topic, meter just presents another new piece of the puzzle (the last time I played a game with meter was Alpha 3...long time ago).

Yeah I'm definitely a casual player for sure myself and only strictly in terms of ability in the game at the moment. I could have gone to locals about... Two years ago but I've been out of practice (Working on that) for a while. I may not be a competitive powerhouse but I know what it takes to be a competent player (And I'm always hype to hit the lab) and behave in a respectful manner in person and on mic (Which I've noticed is a trait that goes hand in hand with making friends for some reason).

What truly frightens most people away from actual fighting games you're right is the learning curve. To be good at any fighting game you need to have the want and drive to put a lot of hours in the lab getting things right on your side. What the opponent is doing is totally irrelevant if you don't know or are incapable of doing what you should be in response. Every time I introduce a friend or acquaintance to any fighting game but DOA especially, you know the salt starts building, and the typical words like "Spamming" or "Cheese" start to get thrown around by them. That's the type of mindset of someone who probably shouldn't (And hopefully won't) ever consider taking a fighting game seriously. I'm curious to see what they change in regards to the meter and it's specific mechanics leading up to launch and I'm very confident the game that they bring to EVO this year is going to be drastically different than the one we saw at E3.

 

[phoenix1985gr]

First off, im gonna start by saying that its way too early to be accurate, and things - views might change after we learn more things, but im gonna say that im not opposed for meter in Doa in general, although from what i ve seen so far from 6 im not too excited... On one hand fatal rush without full meter being an auto unholdable combo is something im ok with since it gives a free juggle to new players - casuals who dont care to learn optimised combos and will get less damage.... But with the added break blow when you have full meter, getting a stun to launch and then use fatal rush is over 50% without any effort!

Then if you make it that it doesnt change to break blow at the end, it develops a new problem in that using the break hold will be useless as keeping your meter for the break blow is gonna be a stronger option probably...

Then we have the fatal rush is unsafe nonsense... sure it is unsafe, but just as Kasumis 3p is unsafe when she can just cancel her string or keep going, the defender is at risk of being high counter hit for trying to throw the blocked 3p... I believe the same will be with fatal rush... No one is gonna finish the string on block, and if at any point you try throwing after the first blocked S you risk getting hit by a second one for a high counter auto combor with the potential of break blow at the end... So im not sure what should be done about that, maybe make it so if you press a single S the whole string comes out always?

Last thing i would like to consider is if we have the option to do custom combos ending with break blow that would be something cool i guess, like ending your combo with a super in sf...

 

[XxNoriakixX]

I just want a clean, skill based game like VF. No bs 2D mechanics and comeback factors. Why should someone make a comeback if that person is bad anyways? They simply should not play fighting games if they are unwilling to learn imo. The removal of traditional sidesteps still bothers me the most though. And I thought it would be impossible to dumb down a game even more after all of the recent fighters

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Then we have the fatal rush is unsafe nonsense... sure it is unsafe, but just as Kasumis 3p is unsafe when she can just cancel her string or keep going, the defender is at risk of being high counter hit for trying to throw the blocked 3p... I believe the same will be with fatal rush... No one is gonna finish the string on block, and if at any point you try throwing after the first blocked S you risk getting hit by a second one for a high counter auto combor with the potential of break blow at the end... So im not sure what should be done about that, maybe make it so if you press a single S the whole string comes out always?

Last thing i would like to consider is if we have the option to do custom combos ending with break blow that would be something cool i guess, like ending your combo with a super in sf...

Fatal Rush combos don't continue after the first hit is blocked. There's no risk of getting hit by a follow-up after a block.

With regards to DOA6's direction, I'm fine with the inclusion of meter and metered-moves because it adds an extra layer to the gameplay and metagame. My hope is that it gets balanced properly, which I'm sure TN will do. I also would like Fatal Rushes to cost meter in some way. What I don't like is how DOA6 seems to be putting a fair amount of emphasis on simplified mechanics to draw in casuals along with the appearance of dumbed down gameplay to try and appeal to people that were originally intimidated by the thought of fighting games. Fighting games do not need to be dumbed down. DOA does not need to be dumbed down. Seriously, who has ever stated that DOA is "hard"? Complex? Yes. But hard? Not really.

What DOA (and most fighting games) require are much more comprehensive tutorials that teach you how to play properly. DOA5LR's tutorials and combo challenges were a great step in the right direction, though could be taken a step further in teaching the player how to actually play the game properly. Think of BlazBlue's tutorials that teach about spacing, and utilization of specific character's tools for instance. A big problem that players have in fighting games isn't really execution related, but moreso in just understanding how the game is to be played properly. That's why Tekken 7's lack of tutorials is so obnoxious in 2017. It creates the illusion that the game is harder than it is. Here's to hoping that DOA6 has some kickass tutorials!

On a different note the FGC, especially for 3D fighters like DOA isn't really that big, so the community needs to try to avoid any sort of elitist mindsets like "git gud scrub, blah, blah, blah". It's a weird balancing act around attracting new players, and sustaining them by a combination of not scaring them off, but also hoping that the game has the content and depth to keep them interested.

 

[JJdude]

Nay

 

[deathofaninja]

I just want a clean, skill based game like VF. No bs 2D mechanics and comeback factors. Why should someone make a comeback if that person is bad anyways? They simply should not play fighting games if they are unwilling to learn imo. The removal of traditional sidesteps still bothers me the most though. And I thought it would be impossible to dumb down a game even more after all of the recent fighters

Interesting points, but I disagree... there are a lot of casual fighters out there for every fighting game, more than there are hardcore. We need casual players because they are known to contribute the most money via DLC, and a lot of them turn into vets. It's not like the comeback results in a win, and the comeback is designed for someone that knows how to utilize it.

Bad players will continue to get bodied, so I don't understand the problem. The new mechanics look like they will be a lot of fun to utilize to me.

 

[NewWestFan]

Interesting points, but I disagree... there are a lot of casual fighters out there for every fighting game, more than there are hardcore. We need casual players because they are known to contribute the most money via DLC, and a lot of them turn into vets. It's not like the comeback results in a win, and the comeback is designed for someone that knows how to utilize it.

Bad players will continue to get bodied, so I don't understand the problem. The new mechanics look like they will be a lot of fun to utilize to me.

This is basically where I'm at now. They all seem to come out slow enough to spot, and FR/BB both (I think, unless I'm remembering wrong from the footage) have a distinct audio que on start-up making them as bad as going for PB raw in 5. Combine that with all FR starting High and the first hit can be held?

 

[x Sypher x]

I'm not against meter in DOA, I just hope they implement it correctly to where it doesn't impact the core gameplay too much and force us to rely on it. The thing is, meter in 3D fighting games isn't exactly traditional, but it's not really new either. As far as I can remember, Bloody Roar was one of 1st 3D fighting games to implement meter and it worked well. But at the same time it's always been in the game since the beginning. It's when you introduce a mechanic that wasn't in the game before that causes speculation.

 

[Fantailler]

Interesting points, but I disagree... there are a lot of casual fighters out there for every fighting game, more than there are hardcore. We need casual players because they are known to contribute the most money via DLC, and a lot of them turn into vets. It's not like the comeback results in a win, and the comeback is designed for someone that knows how to utilize it.

Bad players will continue to get bodied, so I don't understand the problem. The new mechanics look like they will be a lot of fun to utilize to me.

I'm still concerned about BB.It will drastically change the Flow once your opponent has full meter, especially with that crazy sabaki property and its crazy speed. If the damage is high it will be a nightmare.It shouldn't sabaki a throw imo.I know it's punishable but i'm not talking about that situation.

With that input i easily see it used in the middle of a delayed string or at disadvantage.Not Rewarding defense or reads.

Newcomers rarely try to improve.Once they've found gimmicks they stick with it.Why defend if you can yolo BB ? See it's a peculiar situation and a bad "reflex" to teach to a new player,same applies to auto combo FR.

BB and FR may totally change Doa's feeling.

 

[GreatDarkHero]

Aha!

I wonder if there will be SS moves with Fatal Rush properties given to specific characters?

Or, perhaps some character will have wake-up Fatal Rushes, jumping Fatal Rushes, and Fatal Rushes that are implemented in specific stances (example, Helena's BKO stance). Perhaps specific FR moves can be rendered safe or slightly less risky if they are implemented as Just Frame move inputs without being potentially broken. Otherwise, other options would be unsafe on block but still useful options for getting back on the offensive or the like. In some cases, this may be highly questionable, especially when not properly tested.
The thought of what DOA6 can do with these mechanics or add to the project has me quite giddy in this regard.

 

[grap3fruitman]

If I have no meter and I hit someone with Tina's taunt, I should get a full bar to use. Hopefully you can also enhance throws with and meter for super versions. Grapplers need something.

 

[NewWestFan]

If I have no meter and I hit someone with Tina's taunt, I should get a full bar to use. Hopefully you can also enhance throws with and meter for super versions. Grapplers need something.

Meter burn MDT would make me laugh maniacally every time I land it and take 75% HP off a HiC throw