Offical Helena Gameplay Discussion Thread

KwonJigglypuff

Well-Known Member
[JUSTIFY]
I have done the command list and combo challenge. My issue is more of what do I do in certain situations or rather what properties moves have like what crushes what etc etc. I will look at the vids posted and see what I can gather from those.
[/JUSTIFY]

[JUSTIFY]You should go to training mode and see the properties that suit your playstyle. Helena can be played in different ways thanks to her tricks, tools and her amazing mix-up from both BKO and BT stances.[/JUSTIFY]

[JUSTIFY]Here are some of my favourite moves (no order). Please correct me if I'm wrong![/JUSTIFY]

[JUSTIFY]Favourite Bokuho options:[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- BKO_22_P4P (another option after the rebound in order to apply pressure)[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- BKO_3P+K (great launcher, leads her into BT and has crounching property)[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- BKO_22_P+K (ducking punishing tool and best BKO launcher on HI Counter)[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- BKO_2K (tracking and crouching property, has a good reach, annoys people)[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- BKO_T (tool to punish holders, connects with SSSS or 3P4K > BT_4PK > 6P+K)[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- BKO_2P+K/8P+K (similar to her DOA3's 88/22P, allows her to sidestep in BKO)[/JUSTIFY]

[JUSTIFY]Favourite Back-turned options:[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- BT_6P+K (honest frame advantage, leads into BKO and sort of "delay" after BKO_6P4P)[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- BT_P+K (tracking launcher with honest frame advantage or relauncher for air combos)[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- BT_4PK (leads into BKO or rebound property with BKO_6P+K as the best combo ender)[/JUSTIFY]

[JUSTIFY]Favourite Punches options:[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- 236P (close hit property and has merely crounching property)[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- 6PP4 (second hit is high which is great for her and BT option)[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- 8PP4P (high punches with second hit tracking and BT option)[/JUSTIFY]

[JUSTIFY]Favourite Kicks options:[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- 7K (great fast tracking launcher which make her access her BT mix-up)[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- K+H (tracking guard break which can lead to BKO and merely evade lows)[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- KKK/3KKK (first one is faster and safer, second has more reach and damage)[/JUSTIFY]

[JUSTIFY]Favourite Throws options:[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- 6T (quick throw with honest damage and cool slaps in da face)[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- 214T (mind gamish throw with BKO_6PP being guaranteed)[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- BT_T (mind gamish throw with PP being guaranteed)[/JUSTIFY]

[JUSTIFY]Goddess move option:[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- 66KPP (potentially best combo ender or risky jumping/crouching/squatting with good reach)[/JUSTIFY]

[JUSTIFY]I have some questions for you guys :[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- Why is 66P sometimes -4 or -5 on guard, is it because of the stance (I'm sure I'm missing something here) ?[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- Why does her BKO_4P+K make less damage than her charged BKOP_6P+K (shouldn't it be more rewarding) ?[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- Why didn't they make her 214P+K her Fatal Stun (it's just a detail but I don't like these bounce properties) ?[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- Why does 44PPP not bound like in this video (it looks very cool and actually add something to that move) ?[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- What's the point of 66K+H despite being only punishable by grapplers and looking cool (sorry for insisting) ?[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- Why does her new 33P not have a high follow-up and a low follow-up (I feel it's missing something flashy) ?[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- Would it be too much to ask for this crazy windmill move with an imput like BKO_46P+K (maybe too much) ?[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- Wouldn't it be interesting to give BKO_P+K a different stun when the distance is >2.0 meters ? (just an idea) ?[/JUSTIFY]

Hopefully this will become one of her victory poses someday.

 

Akumasama

Active Member
Italy
Main Character
Gamertag
Akumasama
PSN ID
Akumasama
Does anybody have cool setups from:

1) 214T
2) BT_T

In DoA5 after 1) I used to do 6P4P, I think the second hit is no longer guaranteed now?
In DoA5 after 2) there was a cool guaranteed combo with 6P,P (delay) P. Now if you delay you're gonna get countered, if you don't delay it's guaranteed and it no longer slams to the ground as it used to in DoA5, but I'm not sure what to use as follow up though, after the third hit the enemy is usually too far for any launcher to properly hit.

Maybe 3P4K instead of 6P,P,P?
 

MasterGamer

Member
Philadelphia, PA
Main Character
Helena Douglas
Gamertag
MasterGamer
PSN ID
royalchaos
[JUSTIFY]- What's the point of 66K+H despite being only punishable by grapplers and looking cool (sorry for insisting) ?[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY][/JUSTIFY]
If you get that stun, it makes it very easy to follow up with BKO22P4P (what used to 33P4P in DOA5). It's not guaranteed, but that opens up her options tremendously because people freak out after getting hit by that, lol.
 
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Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
Gamertag
A u r o r a
PSN ID
CalamitySword
[JUSTIFY][/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- Why didn't they make her 214P+K her Fatal Stun (it's just a detail but I don't like these bounce properties) ?[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- Why does 44PPP not bound like in this video (it looks very cool and actually add something to that move)[/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]- Why does her new 33P not have a high follow-up and a low follow-up (I feel it's missing something flashy) ?[/JUSTIFY]
Helena had very poor SDS's in 5. Given that the new mechanics in 6 are FS's, I'm not surprised that TN left her somewhat lacking in this area. Perhaps due to Helena's ultra evasive nature, TN doesn't want her being too good at the other mechanics of the game. At least 214P+K is better than it was in 5.

I thought about the bound removal from 44PPP and my guess is that TN wants us to use all of Helena's tools, and the bound would have been a universal combo against opponents after launch, rendering others options somewhat pointless.

I think they want her 33P to be kind of pants. Who knows, maybe we'll get an Ultimate style update that will add attacks to strings. Like they did with 6P+K by adding P to the end of it.

Does anybody have cool setups from:

1) 214T
2) BT_T

In DoA5 after 1) I used to do 6P4P, I think the second hit is no longer guaranteed now?
In DoA5 after 2) there was a cool guaranteed combo with 6P,P (delay) P. Now if you delay you're gonna get countered, if you don't delay it's guaranteed and it no longer slams to the ground as it used to in DoA5, but I'm not sure what to use as follow up though, after the third hit the enemy is usually too far for any launcher to properly hit.

Maybe 3P4K instead of 6P,P,P?
I believe those throws are limted to 12 frame follow ups, meaning that only P or 6P from FF or BKO are guaranteed.

From BT throw 6PP4 into either 66K2, 4PK, 4P works. Her BT P string is solid for pressure as she can finish the string and remain safe, launch with a mid K, go into the high GC that tracks, or go for a low that also tracks and is + on NH.

With 214 throw I'd stick with 6PP, then use the stun time to set up strong mix ups. I would avoid doing 6P4P though, as it doesn't cause a heavy stun and the opponent is pushed away during.
 
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Akumasama

Active Member
Italy
Main Character
Gamertag
Akumasama
PSN ID
Akumasama
Thanks for the tips.
I can say that BKO_P is not guaranteed after 214T. Maybe it depends on the character, but at least some characters can avoid that P by using moves that will put them into a crouched status.
The crouched status itself is probably faster than 12 frames, even if the move connects in longer than 12 frames.

It's worth to be tested because I don't know if it applies to all characters or just some, but I can't 100% say it's not safe for all of them at least.
6P is totally safe and guaranteed, but I just don't feel very safe with 6P4P, maybe for the reason you said.

I mean... this doesn't mean 6P4P after 214T is necessarily bad. It can still be very good to mixup your patterns and surprise the opponent, this goes for every single move in DoA. It's just not something I would suggest to use as your "main" tool, or something to repeat over and over and over.
Sadly I'm still in the stage where it comes "automatic" for my fingers to do that, I'm still too used to DoA5 I guess.


Also about your other comment, I think an "Ultimate" version of DoA5 (as in: boxed game with different servers etc) is completely out of the question.
A major upgrade of the game and then a repackage (similar to what DoA5LR was for DoA5U) is possible though, who knows, time will tell.
 
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Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
Gamertag
A u r o r a
PSN ID
CalamitySword
Also about your other comment, I think an "Ultimate" version of DoA5 (as in: boxed game with different servers etc) is completely out of the question.
A major upgrade of the game and then a repackage (similar to what DoA5LR was for DoA5U) is possible though, who knows, time will tell.
I would guess that they will offer a free update, similar to SFV Arcade Edition. I can't imagine them taking the DOA5 route again, still too fresh to get away with that BS again. Despite that, there is still hope for additions to move sets as it occurred once before.
 
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Akumasama

Active Member
Italy
Main Character
Gamertag
Akumasama
PSN ID
Akumasama
I think we're sayin the same thing. DoA5LR was a "free upgrade" for DoA5U users. You just didn't get the additional characters (that you were getting by buying LR again and using that over DoA5U) but you were getting the new UI, the new fixes, the same servers, the same chars in the menu (you just couldn't use them unless you bought them separately xD)

Unless my memory is tricking me?
 

Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
Gamertag
A u r o r a
PSN ID
CalamitySword
I think we're sayin the same thing. DoA5LR was a "free upgrade" for DoA5U users. You just didn't get the additional characters (that you were getting by buying LR again and using that over DoA5U) but you were getting the new UI, the new fixes, the same servers, the same chars in the menu (you just couldn't use them unless you bought them separately xD)

Unless my memory is tricking me?
God only knows. Feels like an eternity since Vanilla 5 went on sale :/
 

Cyberratchet

New Member
DoA6 is my first DoA that I’m trying to play online and I have watched a few Helena videos from DoA5 and 6. I think I get the general idea with her playstyle in close range, but I’m not sure what to do when my opponent is far away.

Her running moves don’t look to be particularly good and I haven’t found a good gap closer as well. Is there anything I’m missing or do I just have to be play it more safe at that distance? Bait for holds, fish for something like a 7K? I’m only at D rank so far, so unsafe stuff a well places 66K and a low sweep works but I don’t think that will work at the higher ranks.
 
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Project Bokuho

Lady Helena's Pet
Premium Donor
DoA6 is my first DoA that I’m trying to play online and I have watched a few Helena videos from DoA5 and 6. I think I get the general idea with her playstyle in close range, but I’m not sure what to do when my opponent is far away.

Her running moves don’t look to be particularly good and I haven’t found a good gap closer as well. Is there anything I’m missing or do I just have to be play it more safe at that distance? Bait for holds, fish for something like a 7K? I’m only at D rank so far, so unsafe stuff a well places 66K and a low sweep works but I don’t think that will work at the higher ranks.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I generally use 66P to close out space. Her BKO sweep works well against opponents who throw out strings when they're not in close range. If I'm feeling REALLY lucky then I use BKO 4P+K (short or full charge) for the same reasons as the BKO sweep, especially against wakeup kicks.
 

KwonJigglypuff

Well-Known Member
I can't speak for anyone else, but I generally use 66P to close out space. Her BKO sweep works well against opponents who throw out strings when they're not in close range. If I'm feeling REALLY lucky then I use BKO 4P+K (short or full charge) for the same reasons as the BKO sweep, especially against wakeup kicks.
Plus her new BKO_P+K which players are not really familiar with, enjoy it before it's too late.
I actually like it now. It covers great distance and it anedoctally reminds me of a fencing move!
 
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Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
Gamertag
A u r o r a
PSN ID
CalamitySword
BKO_P+K launches on CH and HCH right?
BKO 3P+K launches on any hit, BKO P+K is a non-launching mid punch.



I was thinking after a conversation I had on here, if Helena's FS's were meant to activate on crouching opponents in general, they would make perfect sense:

66KF > 7P would land if the opponent tried to counter the low punch.

44PPP would work the same due to the low follow up.

6PPP & 46PP would work if they low countered under the high.

214P would simply work in neutral to punish low blocks or counters. Something like 4PPKF > 214P could work. I believe that on hit 4P2PF > 214P is a thing too.

These set ups seem to be legit when I tested it against the AI, when setting them to counter as fast as possible.

I'd be surprised if these set ups were put in by accident. Maybe these FS's were always meant activate on cr. opponents and something went wrong. Failing that, these FS's were put in, made to be impossible to use, whilst also putting in set ups that could utilize them perfectly.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I'm feeling optimistic for the next serious patch :)

Edit: Completely off-topic, but, does Helena's BT 4K launch higher on NH than on CH and HCH? Am I meant to whiff punish with BT 4K?
 
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ninjaguy446

Well-Known Member
Philadelphia
Main Character
Helena Douglas
PSN ID
ninjaguy446
Does anyone know how to go from FT to BT super fast like Emann does here at the start of the round (1:33)?


Him and XCal were always doing it in 5 and I never figured it out lol like seeing Emann do it there makes it look almost instant. Doing 2P+K7 as fast as I can definitely doesn't do that.
 

XxSakuraLuvaxX

Active Member
Canada, Alberta
Main Character
Kasumi α
Gamertag
XxSakuraLuvaxX
PSN ID
Everglaid
Does anyone know how to go from FT to BT super fast like Emann does here at the start of the round (1:33)? Him and XCal were always doing it in 5 and I never figured it out lol like seeing Emann do it there makes it look almost instant. Doing 2P+K7 as fast as I can definitely doesn't do that.
1P+K seems to let you cancel the ducking animation with 44, putting you into bokuho immediately. if you look at my inputs, (i'm using a d-pad) it seems like my messy attempts at inputting 7 quickly also accidentally includes a 44.. i can't seem to do the same with 2P+K, the 44 input is buffered for when the animation is over. this doesn't give a definite answer to your question hehe but food for thought i guess!

60 fps video version: https://giant.gfycat.com/ImpassionedDarlingBedbug.webm
 

ninjaguy446

Well-Known Member
Philadelphia
Main Character
Helena Douglas
PSN ID
ninjaguy446
1P+K seems to let you cancel the ducking animation with 44, putting you into bokuho immediately. if you look at my inputs, (i'm using a d-pad) it seems like my messy attempts at inputting 7 quickly also accidentally includes a 44.. i can't seem to do the same with 2P+K, the 44 input is buffered for when the animation is over. this doesn't give a definite answer to your question hehe but food for thought i guess!

60 fps video version: https://giant.gfycat.com/ImpassionedDarlingBedbug.webm
Wow, this is perfect, thank you so much!
 
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