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DOA5U "Prepare" - Ayane General Gameplay Discussion
- Thread starter iHajinShinobi
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i wanna see iHajinShinobi tearing up people on big events like NEC
man ayane is so underrepresented in high level play. so many top players staying away from her even though she is so amazing in this game
man ayane is so underrepresented in high level play. so many top players staying away from her even though she is so amazing in this game
That's because our top players don't see any potential in this character due to lack of understanding her. That's why I'm here.
And, thanks, I'll be doing my best to represent Hajinmon at majors I can attend.
And, thanks, I'll be doing my best to represent Hajinmon at majors I can attend.
ShinMaruku
Well-Known Member
I would have went to NEC to represent but my Ayane is booty buttcheeks and that area is just so >_> to me.
So until I stop being booty buttcheeks we have to support the real Hajinmon masters.
So until I stop being booty buttcheeks we have to support the real Hajinmon masters.
Female Tengu
Active Member
Way too much people don't really understand her which is kinda funny because it's not that Ayane is a brand new character introduced with DoA4/5 or so.
P.S. great Avatar choice, bro (if you know what I mean xD)
Awesome pic, couldn't pass up the chance to have it as an avatar, LOL. And yeah, that's true too. I've watched a ton of DOA2U, DOA3.1, DOA4 and DOA5 play of Ayane. And most who play her, play her in a very limited manner. It's no wonder why players think she's not capable of high level play.
ShinMaruku
Well-Known Member
I think people who don't see the value in some characters really do a blow to character diversity in a game. Luckily it seems to be happening less now. In AE people thought Gen and Oni were ass, nut now people wonder i9f they are top because some people actually looked at the character.
Ayanes80085Lover
Member
Yo guys
Just adding a few informations about back turn transitions and some moves.
P4P : First of all, P4P on block is safe, as you all know -5 on block. This move can be used at mid range at the cost of whiffing the P and become -4 on block. If ever you whiff the P only to do the P4P follow up, you'll predictable. My conclusion about that is that whiffing P should be used as a Back Turn transition stance, not only to prepare a mid range P4P.
6PK : This is not a safe move. It can be punished because you are at -7 on block. However, it has a pushback effect. The same way, you whiff P to hit the opponent with the P4P at mid range, you can whiff the 6P to hit your opponent with the K of the 6PK string. It is safe on block now because of the pushback effect. Conclusion : whiff 6P when you can but not only to prepare the safe 6P but also as a back turn transition move just like P.
8P > BT 6P this was already covered by Hajin. +0 at close range and +1 at range. Edit : thanks, I mean BT 6K not BT 6P.
With the P4P move, Ayane now has 3 ways to go BT stance with threatening, strong and safe options.
Just adding a few informations about back turn transitions and some moves.
P4P : First of all, P4P on block is safe, as you all know -5 on block. This move can be used at mid range at the cost of whiffing the P and become -4 on block. If ever you whiff the P only to do the P4P follow up, you'll predictable. My conclusion about that is that whiffing P should be used as a Back Turn transition stance, not only to prepare a mid range P4P.
6PK : This is not a safe move. It can be punished because you are at -7 on block. However, it has a pushback effect. The same way, you whiff P to hit the opponent with the P4P at mid range, you can whiff the 6P to hit your opponent with the K of the 6PK string. It is safe on block now because of the pushback effect. Conclusion : whiff 6P when you can but not only to prepare the safe 6P but also as a back turn transition move just like P.
8P > BT 6P this was already covered by Hajin. +0 at close range and +1 at range. Edit : thanks, I mean BT 6K not BT 6P.
With the P4P move, Ayane now has 3 ways to go BT stance with threatening, strong and safe options.
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I think you mean BT 6K, which is +0 block or hit and +1 at tip range. BT 6P is -15 on block.
Nice little overview on P4P & 6PK. 6PK is essentially "semi-safe" since it can't be guaranteed punished. The second hit tracks to prevent sidestep attempts and is very delayable. As for me, I'd rather whiff P as opposed to 6P due to P's faster recovery. Someone tries to attack after a whiffed P? BT 6P them! They stand there? Throw them!
I've been using neutral P as a means of stance transition for awhile now (for about 2 months now). However, I have also created other means for it. Doing a neutral P at range can lead into anything you want afterward. Because its a way to form whiff punishment, while also adding legitimate flare to the footsies game.
Also 6P3 and 6P3[4] are a lot better to do at range than 6P because the 6P3 offers access to her forward spin and sweep. I've had a lot of success with these things in tournament play. But I do like the idea of utilizing 6PK as a range tool. I'm going to try that out.
Also, K and BT PK are amazing range pokes. And K is fast as hell at i12 frames for a high kick and has very good hit priority, and it tracks.
Also 6P3 and 6P3[4] are a lot better to do at range than 6P because the 6P3 offers access to her forward spin and sweep. I've had a lot of success with these things in tournament play. But I do like the idea of utilizing 6PK as a range tool. I'm going to try that out.
Also, K and BT PK are amazing range pokes. And K is fast as hell at i12 frames for a high kick and has very good hit priority, and it tracks.
SrLopez
New Member
Where does someone who is new to 3D fighters begin with this character? I've been playing 2D fighters for many years but I've never tried playing a 3D fighter competitively. I've mashed in previous DOA games with Ayane but I'd like to learn to play her seriously. I understand she's one of the harder characters to learn but that's not going to stop me from trying her out, so please don't tell me I should try someone easy since I'm a beginner. I simply have no interest in anyone else (except Mila)
I've done most of the tutorial, and all her moves and trial combos
I've done most of the tutorial, and all her moves and trial combos
Here is what iHajin posted to another player that was looking to take up Ayane:
iHajinShinobi said:
The first thing you want to do is become comfortable with moves such as P, 6P, 2P, 6K, 3P, 1P, 3H+K and 4P for example (along with 66KK4 and BT PP6KK4 down the line). Alot of these moves also have follow-ups.
The next thing you'd want to do is familiarize yourself with Ayane's integrated movement system. Become comfortable with moves such as 8P, 7P, 1P+K for controlling space.
Then you'd want to look at Ayane's strong throws and mix-up tools such as P, 6P3, or BT'ed moves such as BT PP6KK4 for instance. Basically Ayane is all about controlling space and forcing her opponents to make mistakes or whiff stuff.
I hope this can serve as a bit of a starting point. Ayane has a ridiculous amount of depth to her.
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SrLopez
New Member
Thanks, it sure is a lot to take in at once.
I've gotta new pseudo force tech for all launch heights and it is universal (hits all weight classes). As well as two forms of okizeme, for BOTH midscreen AND wall okizeme.
I'll post my information after more testing this week at casuals. >:3
I'll post my information after more testing this week at casuals. >:3
Female Tengu
Active Member
SoCal Regionals is in two months (Feburary). I'm going to train harder and give it my absolute best to win that tournament major, with Ayane.
I just want to say that I really appreciate the support you guys have given me before. I want to make you guys proud as well as myself.
I just want to say that I really appreciate the support you guys have given me before. I want to make you guys proud as well as myself.
I've got even more okizeme for our purple-haired kunoichi. I'll share my findings after casuals this weekend (along with okizeme and pseudo force tech I mentioned finding the last time).
My okizeme pressure
These are options after you've knocked the opponent down onto the ground, whether they tech up or not, you will retain advantage.
PP6K2K/6K2K mix up - PP6K2K and 6K2K as your juggles while front turned can lead into a hard knockdown (of course while you're delaying your 2K low sweep). And you are at advantage whether the opponent techs up off the ground or not. If they tech up, you are left at neutral (+0) advantage. If they don't tech up, you time your 2H+K to force them up and you are left at +18 advantage. You can land your PP6K2K juggles off any launches while facing forward. Even with 64H+P > 4P+K > BT6P > PP6K2K.
The assumption of the opponent teching up;
If the opponent techs up after being juggled with 6K2K or PP6K2K, Ayane is at +0, options I've been leaning into are;
- 6P3/6P3[4] - You can actually make the 6P3 whiff to feint a BT3KK low sweep attempt or just feint with 6P3/6P3[4]. Or you wait a second then do 6P3, this will allow you to counter hit opponents that want to try disrespecting your okizeme. And our counter hit will not lose out to any strike attempts. Helena cannot BKO, and Brad Wong cannot go into Laydown stance, and Christie cannot JAK out of this. Bayman can side roll out though.
- 66KK4 - It can lead into the +1 for frame advantage, and Ayane cannot be striked out of it. Helena cannot BKO, Brad Wong cannot go into Laydown stance, Christie cannot JAK, and Bayman cannot side roll out.
- 3H+K - Fully blown tracking, leads into the bound on hit and into the 3H+K mix up I'll explain in a bit. Ayane cannot be striked out of it. Helena cannot BKO, Brad Wong cannot go into Laydown stance, Christie cannot JAK, Bayman cannot roll out of it.
- PP6P3 - Same deal as 6P3
- PPP4 - Same deal as PP63, except the third hit has tracking. Bayman can roll but his offensive hold will be counter hit by the third hit of PPP and put into a critical stun.
- P4P - Delaying the second strike will catch side steps and the previously mentioned characters special movement.
Assumption of the opponent not teching up;
If the opponent doesn't tech up immediately after being juggled with PP6K2K/6K2K, I time my 2H+K low sweep to connect to force the opponent off the ground. Doing so leaves me at +18 advantage, and you have all of the same options with the exact same results. The only difference though is that the first hit of 66KK4 will become unholdable if you proceed to use it (given you do 66KK4 immediately without delay).
Of course, you have the option to throw along with these options too. And if anything is blocked, you're safe anyway to further the mix up or back away.
My okizeme wall pressure
After knocking opponents into the wall with a BTPP6PK or a juggle while facing forward. I immediately follow up with the following;
- 6P3 - This leads into the BT3KK low sweeps that counter hit mashing if opponents tech up and try to strike. You can also feint with 6P3 and react to the situation of opponents teching up or not. If they tech up, you are at +0 with the exact same options as listed before, plus more strings as well as tick throw set ups. If they don't tech up, then you condition them for wake up kicks for you to hold or crush.
- 6P3[4] - Same deal as 6P3 except you're back turned. Can lead into BT strings and BT throws.
- 6P9 - Allows you to flip over ground opponents, this one is more situational. You want to set this one up once you've conditioned opponents to do a wake up. Doing so guarantees a BT6P launch on a back turned opponent.
You can also apply the PP6K2K/6K2K juggle pressure for wall okizeme as well. That way, you are effectively applying two different forms of oki on opponents to keep them in check.
My 3H+K okizeme mix up
3H+K's bound is really good, I honestly prefer it over the sitdown stun she had in DOA5 Vanilla. After further testing this stuff out this weekend at casuals, it's a lot more scary than before.
Basically, you hit confirm a 3H+K and roll once afterward. You're left at +11 frame advantage if the opponent techs, and +26 if they don't tech.
If you tech up, you are forced to block BTPP6KK4 if I use it, it'll jail if you tech up and I'm guaranteed my +1. The mix up there while BT (so far) is BTPP, BT6K, BTPP6KK4 and a throw. If I choose BT6K, I'm at +0 or +1 frame advantage on block.
I can also face forward after the roll and still be at +11, and feint with PP or P4P. Or I can I do PPP4 or PP6P3 for mix up. Or I can do 66KK4 for +1 or 3H+K and be safe (or if it counter hits then I can just loop it all over again). Or I can throw you.
To further the mix up; I can roll once as before then perform a BT3 spin quickly to be at +0. I can do a BT3KK from this, or face forward and do 3H+K to loop it again or be safe. Or I can do 6P3 or 6P3[4] for mix up, or P4P, or 66KK4, or throw you.
Or, I can stay in BT from BT3 and have more options, including throws.
That's just from you teching up after 3H+K.
If you DON'T tech up, I can do my roll to be at +26 or roll into BT3 for +0 and set you up for wake up kicks. I can hold them, crush them with BT8K or BT7K, I can flip over you and score a counter hit for baiting a wake up kick.
If you don't tech up, and don't use a wake up kick, then every single option listed is available because you're at disadvantage if you try to attack or throw me anyway.
Every single option counter hits you for free if you decide to strike at disadvantage at all, even at the +0 stuff. Also, Helena cannot BKO, Brad cannot laydown and Christie cannot JAK out of it at all.
These are options after you've knocked the opponent down onto the ground, whether they tech up or not, you will retain advantage.
PP6K2K/6K2K mix up - PP6K2K and 6K2K as your juggles while front turned can lead into a hard knockdown (of course while you're delaying your 2K low sweep). And you are at advantage whether the opponent techs up off the ground or not. If they tech up, you are left at neutral (+0) advantage. If they don't tech up, you time your 2H+K to force them up and you are left at +18 advantage. You can land your PP6K2K juggles off any launches while facing forward. Even with 64H+P > 4P+K > BT6P > PP6K2K.
The assumption of the opponent teching up;
If the opponent techs up after being juggled with 6K2K or PP6K2K, Ayane is at +0, options I've been leaning into are;
- 6P3/6P3[4] - You can actually make the 6P3 whiff to feint a BT3KK low sweep attempt or just feint with 6P3/6P3[4]. Or you wait a second then do 6P3, this will allow you to counter hit opponents that want to try disrespecting your okizeme. And our counter hit will not lose out to any strike attempts. Helena cannot BKO, and Brad Wong cannot go into Laydown stance, and Christie cannot JAK out of this. Bayman can side roll out though.
- 66KK4 - It can lead into the +1 for frame advantage, and Ayane cannot be striked out of it. Helena cannot BKO, Brad Wong cannot go into Laydown stance, Christie cannot JAK, and Bayman cannot side roll out.
- 3H+K - Fully blown tracking, leads into the bound on hit and into the 3H+K mix up I'll explain in a bit. Ayane cannot be striked out of it. Helena cannot BKO, Brad Wong cannot go into Laydown stance, Christie cannot JAK, Bayman cannot roll out of it.
- PP6P3 - Same deal as 6P3
- PPP4 - Same deal as PP63, except the third hit has tracking. Bayman can roll but his offensive hold will be counter hit by the third hit of PPP and put into a critical stun.
- P4P - Delaying the second strike will catch side steps and the previously mentioned characters special movement.
Assumption of the opponent not teching up;
If the opponent doesn't tech up immediately after being juggled with PP6K2K/6K2K, I time my 2H+K low sweep to connect to force the opponent off the ground. Doing so leaves me at +18 advantage, and you have all of the same options with the exact same results. The only difference though is that the first hit of 66KK4 will become unholdable if you proceed to use it (given you do 66KK4 immediately without delay).
Of course, you have the option to throw along with these options too. And if anything is blocked, you're safe anyway to further the mix up or back away.
My okizeme wall pressure
After knocking opponents into the wall with a BTPP6PK or a juggle while facing forward. I immediately follow up with the following;
- 6P3 - This leads into the BT3KK low sweeps that counter hit mashing if opponents tech up and try to strike. You can also feint with 6P3 and react to the situation of opponents teching up or not. If they tech up, you are at +0 with the exact same options as listed before, plus more strings as well as tick throw set ups. If they don't tech up, then you condition them for wake up kicks for you to hold or crush.
- 6P3[4] - Same deal as 6P3 except you're back turned. Can lead into BT strings and BT throws.
- 6P9 - Allows you to flip over ground opponents, this one is more situational. You want to set this one up once you've conditioned opponents to do a wake up. Doing so guarantees a BT6P launch on a back turned opponent.
You can also apply the PP6K2K/6K2K juggle pressure for wall okizeme as well. That way, you are effectively applying two different forms of oki on opponents to keep them in check.
My 3H+K okizeme mix up
3H+K's bound is really good, I honestly prefer it over the sitdown stun she had in DOA5 Vanilla. After further testing this stuff out this weekend at casuals, it's a lot more scary than before.
Basically, you hit confirm a 3H+K and roll once afterward. You're left at +11 frame advantage if the opponent techs, and +26 if they don't tech.
If you tech up, you are forced to block BTPP6KK4 if I use it, it'll jail if you tech up and I'm guaranteed my +1. The mix up there while BT (so far) is BTPP, BT6K, BTPP6KK4 and a throw. If I choose BT6K, I'm at +0 or +1 frame advantage on block.
I can also face forward after the roll and still be at +11, and feint with PP or P4P. Or I can I do PPP4 or PP6P3 for mix up. Or I can do 66KK4 for +1 or 3H+K and be safe (or if it counter hits then I can just loop it all over again). Or I can throw you.
To further the mix up; I can roll once as before then perform a BT3 spin quickly to be at +0. I can do a BT3KK from this, or face forward and do 3H+K to loop it again or be safe. Or I can do 6P3 or 6P3[4] for mix up, or P4P, or 66KK4, or throw you.
Or, I can stay in BT from BT3 and have more options, including throws.
That's just from you teching up after 3H+K.
If you DON'T tech up, I can do my roll to be at +26 or roll into BT3 for +0 and set you up for wake up kicks. I can hold them, crush them with BT8K or BT7K, I can flip over you and score a counter hit for baiting a wake up kick.
If you don't tech up, and don't use a wake up kick, then every single option listed is available because you're at disadvantage if you try to attack or throw me anyway.
Every single option counter hits you for free if you decide to strike at disadvantage at all, even at the +0 stuff. Also, Helena cannot BKO, Brad cannot laydown and Christie cannot JAK out of it at all.
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Great findings iHajin! I suspected that PP6K2K was Ayane's new okizeme move after BT PP2PK was made useless in 5U. I'll take a look at 3H+K~(6) myself to see how it can be incorporated into my play. I also noticed that 3H+King someone at a range that sends them rolling back into a wall/corner can also set up some nice pressure on wakeup.
Ael
Member
Judging from reading what Hajin wrote and working in the lab, Ayane has a lot of mix-up potentials from 3H+K. Just have to work on reacting to the choices that the opponent does after 3H+K hits to get the best outcome because it's all about punishing the opponent's mistakes after 3H+K connects and working on dat pressure. Hopefully, we can find a fun reset and vortex (not likely, but still something to try haha). :3
Also, had some offline casuals with a friend today. Wasn't able to use 3H+K much because I was mainly throw punishing unsafe moves but 3H+K was...fun to explore. Definitely a stronger move and option than I thought before.
Also, had some offline casuals with a friend today. Wasn't able to use 3H+K much because I was mainly throw punishing unsafe moves but 3H+K was...fun to explore. Definitely a stronger move and option than I thought before.
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