DOA5U "Prepare" - Ayane General Gameplay Discussion

[Gill Hustle]

You were able to do this since DOA5 1.03, this is nothing new. :B

However, you cannot crouch BT PP6KK4 due to additional block stun from BT PP.

Hmm, never had it happen before, but good to know on the other string.

 

[Ayanes80085Lover]

1P+K P (and its variation like P+K P 1 P) is -8 on block but still breaks guard with +5 advantage or +6 at max range when fully "charged" and the way she screams changes too (at least with Japanese voice). We have to delay and be more precise to get the BG effect.

Can anyone give me examples for the use of P4P ?

SS P > P4P > 1P1K xD

But what is its true force ? poke game ? P4P 8P ?

And what is the use of BT PKKK and all its strings ?

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Wait what? You can charge 1P+K P?

 

[Shade]

Wait what? You can charge 1P+K P?

Yea if you do the double spin, she does the original GB +5/7

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Yea if you do the double spin, she does the original GB +5/7

Oh okay, that's awesome. I actually didn't think about testing that. Good find fellas.

About P4P:

+0 on hit, -5 on block. It's really good for counter hit fishing with it's delay and it pretty much completes Ayane's jab cancel mix ups (hince the counter hit opportunities). I've been hi counter blowing everyone with it because people keep trying to mash afterward. Now, it's either respect that jab AND that mid follow up, or get blown up more than before for trying to disrespect the jab pressure.

It's good in critical stun too, leads into our usual 50/50 options.

About BT PKKK:

All of the same options you're doing with PPKK and KK apply here, but now you just have access to it while your back is turned. I actually like this new addition because the PPKK/KK/BTPKK are all stronger now. Also BTPK6 is 100% viable now in critical stun and is no longer gimmicky.

 

[Mesharey]

iHajinShinobi, post videos of your DOA5U Ayane please.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Linked Winners Finals and Grand Finals from WNF this past Wednesday in the Ayane Video thread.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

1P+K P (and its variation like P+K P 1 P) is -8 on block but still breaks guard with +5 advantage or +6 at max range when fully "charged" and the way she screams changes too (at least with Japanese voice). We have to delay and be more precise to get the BG effect.

Indeed. Gill Hustle & I discovered this during casual matches this past weekend. It's takes a bit of practise to get used to though. I personally would have preferred if 1P+KP was always +5 on block due to the move's slow startup.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Updated the OP with the list of changes to Ayane in DOA5U.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Sometime next week, I'm going to revise my DOA5 Ayane Guide for 5U and add the information to the Wiki in Ayane's gameplay section. And try to get started on my viable combo video as well. I can't focus on those things right now because this week is a little tournament heavy for me right now.

Just played at WNF a bit ago and won (again), now I need to do more training for Saturday's tournament at 1337LoungeLive. Things will be calm a bit by next week, so I'll have time to work on those other projects.

 

[Ael]

Not sure if anyone's found this, but, Ayane has a 2nd bound state move. O:

I was playing against Leifang and got max threshold for Ayane and was gonna go for BT4K but did BT6K instead by accident. And, it caused a bound for her. After BT6K hits, she's facing forward, allowing for a 236K. (Haven't found any other follow-ups yet.) Random find for me. haha

Note: Because Ayane needs to play the stun game, needing 4-5 hits/stuns to get this bound, it really isn't optimum to go for it. This is just a new find but I see no use for it since Ayane's Stun>Launch is what we should opt for, rather than playing the stun game to get a bound that doesn't guaranteed a high payout.

 

[ShinMaruku]

So how do you fellow Ayane players think about Ayane's bounds? I have not enough experience to really see what I can do with bounds but I am interested to hear what you guys can do with them.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Ayane's 3H+K bound sets up for pretty good damaging follow ups, just takes a little time to get them down. Right now, I believe that 3H+K > 66 Free cancel > 66KK4 > BT7K is our best one, for now. Best one, but has the most strict timing.

I use 3H+K > 66 BT4K > BT7K since it is more consistent. I may begin to think differently though once I am more comfortable doing the above.

As for the BT6K bound, I'm not sure I'd call it useless. I think that bound has potential while nearing the walls/objects. The bound can be followed up with a BTPP4PP7K juggle. Obviously, the sitdown stun BT6K has in Critical stun and counter hit is a lot better. But if you need a mid kick follow up while back turned and well within' level 3 critical stun threshold near walls, it's a good option.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

I have decided to rename The Ayane Dash technique to "The Haijin Dash".

 

[phoenix1985gr]

Ayane's 3H+K bound sets up for pretty good damaging follow ups, just takes a little time to get them down. Right now, I believe that 3H+K > 66 Free cancel > 66KK4 > BT7K is our best one, for now. Best one, but has the most strict timing.

I use 3H+K > 66 BT4K > BT7K since it is more consistent. I may begin to think differently though once I am more comfortable doing the above.

As for the BT6K bound, I'm not sure I'd call it useless. I think that bound has potential while nearing the walls/objects. The bound can be followed up with a BTPP4PP7K juggle. Obviously, the sitdown stun BT6K has in Critical stun and counter hit is a lot better. But if you need a mid kick follow up while back turned and well within' level 3 critical stun threshold near walls, it's a good option.

If you re in critical level 3 and you need a mid kick you have both 4k and the cb so i dont think it wil serve having many uses

 

[iHajinShinobi]

If you re in critical level 3 and you need a mid kick you have both 4k and the cb so i dont think it wil serve having many uses

lol, yes it will because it's another option for damage and comes out 5 frames faster than her typical BT 4H+K Critical Burst.

BT4K is what you're going to be opting for midscreen, not by a wall (you are not capitalizing on your damage if you are).

Mid kick options in critical stun:

- 4K: Ground bounces midscreen, wall slams by the wall.
- BT6K: Sitdown stun at level 1 and level 2 critical stun, bounds at level 3. The bound is fine near walls to capitalize on the bound hit with a 66 BTPP4PP7K juggle.
- 66KK4: Easily reaches level 2 in critical stun and wall slams normal hit, level 1 and level 2 of critical stun. Gives the most damage with a BTPP4PP7K follow up juggle.
- BT4K: Normal hit launcher, preferably better midscreen to gain better damage than near walls.
- 3K: Good for stun game in critical stun, wall slams by the wall.
- 3H+K: Bound hit on all hit status and all critical stun levels, wall slams by the wall.
- 4H+K: Natural limbo stun on normal hit.
- BT4H+K: Unstaggerable gut stun on normal hit, level 1 and level 2 (level 2 stun that is hardly deep), and gets Critical Burst at level 2 and level 3 of the critical stun threshold.

All of these options are have their uses, obviously others do more damage than others. All of them work because they are either faster or slower than one another. The speed allows all of these to be viable against timed holds. Just because you happen to reach level 3 within' the critical stun threshold does not mean a Critical Burst is always the go to option.

 

[Ael]

- BT6K: Sitdown stun at level 1 and level 2 critical stun, bounds at level 3. The bound is fine near walls to capitalize on the bound hit with a 66 BTPP4PP7K juggle.

BT6K, on bound hit status, leaves Ayane facing forward, so 66 BTPP4PP7K doesn't work. I have tested and seen that, when BT6K does hit a fair distance from walls, 66KK4>BTPP4PP7K does work on light/med weights and causes a wall splat. Around 108-113 damage on normal hit. Haven't tested on heavies yet. And, like always, 236K works also if the opponent is TOO close to walls, which can allow for a PPPK follow-up also if the opponent bounces back.

But, aside from that, trying to go for a bound with BT6K isn't worthwhile, even near walls in my opinion because, after more testing, the risks vs rewards isn't as rewarding for Ayane.

She has to:

• 1.) Heavily play the stun game because she needs 5 hits/stun just to get the bound since she MUST be in BT position for BT6K to activate into a bound after the 4th hit. And, honestly, I haven't found 4 hits that leaves her in BT position that would enable BT6K to work as a bound. I've found that I could only meet the requirements for BT6K turning into a bound after 5 hits on the opponent, with recovery turned off and stagger escaping turned off also.
• 2.) Which bears to mind that Ayane has limited moves that leaves her in BT position WITHOUT launching the opponent after the level 2 critical stun threshold has been met. (P, PK and BTH+K are the only ones I can think of that leaves her in BT position without launching her opponents after level 2 critical stun threshold is met.)
• 3.) To which Ayane should just opt for launching her opponent now instead of risking 2-3 more moves to push the threshold even more for the bound.
• 4.) None of her moves cause stuns that are deep enough and opponents can stagger escape to escape the bound.
• 5.) And lastly, the opponent is given many chances on holding Ayane along the way.

BT6K is a mid-kick, along with Ayane's BT4K & BT4H+K so chances of her getting held, even if the opponent thinks Ayane's going for a BT CB or a BT4K launcher instead, are higher also.

BT6K for sitdown stun hit status is good, but opting for a bound with BT6K isn't something Ayane should go for. It's a nice, nifty little option if you're playing against someone who's new or doesn't know how to play the game, but against even decent players, you're pushing your luck by trying to go for a BT6K bound at max threshold and after 5 hits on the opponent. It's not completely useless if it were to hit as you can guaranteed yourself a nice hefty damage when near walls, but it's just not worthwhile to have to work so hard (stun>stun>stun>stun>stun>BT6K -___-) for damage when Ayane doesn't have to play the stun game like many other characters in the game do.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Let's talk about how Ayane's damage works. Ayane is one of the few characters in this game and series with very solid mix up for stun > launch to get solid damage. HOWEVER, because she's so heavily based on the 50/50s, this allows her to become very unpredictable, which actually allows her to play a solid stun game if she chooses to do so. Yes, going for stun > launch is always very consistent for Ayane. But that does not mean it is the only way she is (or is obligated) getting her damage.

You are either setting up for normal hit launches, counter hits, stun > launch, tick throws, stun > throw, or stun threshold into anything. Ayane is capable and allowed to do any of these things if she wants to. Attacking one specific way with her all the time is not how you play the character, and it is not how you play DOA. No one here better not say that all they opt for is just stun > launch for damage because I've seen all of you play and it is far from the truth. That includes myself, everyone applies their mix up in their game one way or another.

Now, let's talk about BT6K and how good it is within' the critical stun threshold. Firstly, I'm going to start with a short reply to the following information I've quoted.

BT6K, on bound hit status, leaves Ayane facing forward, so 66 BTPP4PP7K doesn't work.

Yes, BT6K does indeed leave Ayane facing forward, and 66 BTPP4PP7K still connects after the bound near the wall. Because doing 8P to put Ayane back turn allows her to make the hit confirm. I did this last night several times while also putting together other viable and practical combo set ups I'm implementing into my combo video I'll be working on soon.

Now in general:

About BT6K. Yes, the sitdown BT6K has in Critical stun is preferrably better than it's bound hit, obviously. HOWEVER, the bound hit is, as I've said and stressed before, is not useless. I don't know where you're getting that 4 to 5 hits to reach level 3 critical stun from, but I'm reaching level 3 critical within' 2 to 3 hits then go for BT6K bound.

66KK4 > BT7K and 66 BTPP4PP7K both hit near the wall. If you're spending so much time doing 4 to 5 hits just to reach level 3 critical stun and using BT6K, then yeah sure, it's going to seem useless because you obviously should have been opting for another launcher. You have many more at your disposal and all of you should know what those are.

The bound has it's uses, BT6K is a 15 frame mid kick which is pretty fast for hitting within' the critical stun threshold. Yes, this along with the other mid kicks I've listed in the last post are all vunerable to the hold. But they are all of a different speed (this also applies to characters that have a higher variety good mid punch launchers or high launchers as well). Just because your character has a good varierty of said launcher of the same medium (mid punch, mid kick, high hits) does not mean the risk is always high.

UNLESS that is all they have, sure, but it is not the case here and it's just another option she has. Is it better than her usual options? No, of course not, but that does not mean it is bad or not worthwhile. If it's getting you more than 50 damage, then it is deemed as worthwhile.

 

[Ael]

Yeah, it's an option for Ayane, but good luck getting the 3 hit threshold for the bound in matches. I know this is just for testing, but it's hardly viable in matches and this bound feels like we're trying to go for CBs and we know how that goes with Ayane. It's a good option to know, but it's just not for me. I'll probably only use this bound if I did it by accident in matches.

And also, I wouldn't opt for 4-5 hits just for this bound. It was merely for testing and hardly viable in matches.

And yes, I'll take my usual launchers over this.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Already discussed it with you over on Skype, so I don't need to repeat our discussion.

You also didn't need to edit your post either, but it's all good.