Rachel General Discussion

DontForkWitMe

Well-Known Member
Leon has an abundance of +frame guardbreaks to go along with his -1 guardbreaks, Rachel doesn't have any as far as i know after 66k got nerfed. Also the chick needs some low crushes, i think shes the only character without any. Shes the only female character i have any interest in using but she feels incomplete to me and doesn't really excel at anything that other characters dont do better
 
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UncleKitchener

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
These still work well against Brad, who is below-average slow. You can destroy his crushes in most situations with the right read and there's the added bonus of low OH.

But I do agree with you that she nerfed too much.
 

StrikerSashi

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
She didn't need nerfs at all. It's not like Gen Fu can't do the exact same thing but better. If anything nerf her damage slightly and buff the heel to be guaranteed and not possible to back tech.
 

UncleKitchener

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Increasing the start up and adding recovery was one way of totally nerfing Rachel's blender game. I think they should give her a better startup but keep the recovery she has now. She lacks a couple of different tools like low crushes and long-range moves. She is pretty much solely suited for close to mid-range, which is fitting, but she can struggle a lot against certain characters that dominate that range like the ninjas.
 

synce

Well-Known Member
I agree that most of her nerfs were unnecessary but I don't think I've ever seen TN respond to balance suggestions from FSD. I assume they base their balancing on what their own testers feel is right, bias and all.
 
Sometimes I can add 6PPK after 41236T and it adds height again so I can air grab.
But it only works off and on for me, sometimes they fall backward and hit the ground, so I'm left with just using 6PP after the throw.

Sorry if I explained it poorly, but does anyone know the reasoning for this?
 

DontForkWitMe

Well-Known Member
Sometimes I can add 6PPK after 41236T and it adds height again so I can air grab.
But it only works off and on for me, sometimes they fall backward and hit the ground, so I'm left with just using 6PP after the throw.

Sorry if I explained it poorly, but does anyone know the reasoning for this?

it only relaunches in tag. like many characters some of their move properties change in tag to relaunch for possible tag juggles, in solo they go back to normal
 

E-Mann

Well-Known Member
I've been using Rachel for quite some time now and even though she was unnecessarily nerfed in some areas she has 3 major advantages remaining. 1. She's a fast heavyweight. 2 . Ridiculous hold and combo damage. 3.Guessing wrong against her brings dire consequences. For these reasons she is among my mains(Christie & Helena) :)
 

Shiranui

Well-Known Member
2 . Ridiculous hold and combo damage.
I disagree. I think her damage is pretty low for a heavy character and for a half-human, half-fiend. Her mid-punch hold is not more damaging than the rest of cast. Leon, Bass or Bayman are more damaging than her. Or Tina, or La Mariposa have more dangerous throws. Or Hayabusa with his Izuna. Even Marie Rose can do easily more damage than Rachel with combos because she can do 12-14 hit combos. Rachel is strong but she only can do about 6-9 hit combos most of times (for example, one of her natural combos most used 1PP,9P, air T, 9P, 6KP is pretty low on damage. A really damaging move of her is 214, air T. There rest of her is more or less what the others have (I'm talking in general, I know Momiji for example is weaker than her and some others)

And I think that, having in mind that she is not good at long range, she is not fast, she lacks good lows and she is full of mid punches what is easy to stop, she should have better damage to compensate.

I think in general Rachel is an uncompleted character. She is great and TN have done a good work because you really see Ninja Gaiden Rachel fighting in DoA, but still she lacks some tools. I hope to have a more complete Rachel in future DoA games.
 

Vigoorian King

Well-Known Member
Man, Rachel's combo damage is insane. Her holds are one of the most damaging ones in the game. Her throws have great damage even though she's not a real grappler and it's not the fighting style Rachel was created for. She's got a great pressure, great mix-up and many useful launchers (mid kick, mid punch, high kick, low-to-mid string), solid stuns and some great guaranteed options. She's the fastest super heavy, 11/13/14 really isn't that bad (actually her fastest mid is BT 4K that's i12). Her strong knockbacks and air throw gives her good environment control, not telling how scared your opponents is when Rachel brings him near the wall (oh, that tasty 6T ^_^). Having standing OH is great, low OH is a gift from God against characters like Helena or Brad. Do I have to talk about 2K stomp?
Of course Rachel has some weaknesses, like her spacing, neutral game, easy to read strings and negative guard breaks. But with all her strengths they don't matter that much. If you can keep your opponent close to you and read him properly then you're a boss with Rachel.
 

Shiranui

Well-Known Member
Hm.. If you say so, maybe it's me I'm not good enough controlling her. But I win easily using Momiji, who I know half, than using Rachel who is my main :/ To me it seems everybody have great mix ups with stuns low and fast hits which always hit first, and Rachel doesn't.
 
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Bdiamond

Member
I wanna be a boss with Rachel...

What are some good approaches with her? Is it just :6::6::K: and :236::P:? I'm trying to figure out how I can close in on opponents.

Also what are some good lows with her? For now I sometimes try :2::H+K:

And what are some good whiff punishes?
 

DrDam

Member
66K is a good approach but 236P isn't really, cause it's -1 on block. PPT will probably catch some people or if you're feeling raw you can try out 66T as it is. 4K is an honorable mention.
 

Bdiamond

Member
66K is a good approach but 236P isn't really, cause it's -1 on block. PPT will probably catch some people or if you're feeling raw you can try out 66T as it is. 4K is an honorable mention.

Ya I learned about trying to use 236P to approach the hard way...

How do you guys usually retaliate after guarding a string? 6PPK? PP2K? Because sme fast chars stuff those options when I try them.

Btw when my opponent tech's in fear of my stomp, what are my options?
 

DrDam

Member
Btw when my opponent tech's in fear of my stomp, what are my options?
Abuse the OH, if you get in on CH you can do 6PKP, T, 6PKP for some sweet damage. Once they start crouching or playing around with throws do 8K to start your offense the right way
 

Shiranui

Well-Known Member
Ya I learned about trying to use 236P to approach the hard way...

How do you guys usually retaliate after guarding a string? 6PPK? PP2K? Because sme fast chars stuff those options when I try them.
I don't feel like an expert of Rachel and i don't count frames and all that, but after blocking string a good move could be 6PPK, as you said, or 7P. It's a fast move that if it counters your enemy juggles, so you can continue with throw while enemy in air and so. Antoher good poke is 6KP, if it counters you can continue the juggle with PPK, for example. No big damage but it resets the game.
To approach your enemies in a more subtle way I use 4K. Is one of her best long range moves, if it counters it stuns your enemy.
 

Malibu

Well-Known Member
First can someone explain to me all these 6pp's and stuff i don't understand all these numbers.

Also, how does rachel fight Leifang?
 

StrikerSashi

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
It's numpad notation. Look at the numpad on your keyboard.

789
456
123

2 is down, 6 is forward, 8 is up, 4 is back. So 236 is quarter circle forward. P is punch, K is kick, H is hold. T is P+H.

EDIT: As for how to fight Leifang, just play passively until she does something punishable. Leifang isn't a very scary character unless she takes risks, and when she does take those risks, she's gets wrecked if you play it safe.
 
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