Rachel Tips and Strats...

[StrikerSashi]

Maybe it's frame perfect, but I tried twenty minutes and didn't get it once. I've had back tech get stomped, but I teched at a different timing and made the stomp whiff (it was a recording, so exact same timing on the stomp).

EDIT: Still trying and the only time my back tech gets stomped are when my back tech timing is off.

 

[Drahcir]

Hey @StrikerSashi , you're on Xbox? It says Gamertag, not PSN ID, so that's what I'm assuming. If so, would you mind going into online dojo with me? I know online isn't really the best test for this kind of stuff but I don't have an offline way to actually SHOW anybody what I'm doing myself...

 

[StrikerSashi]

Okay.

 

[Drahcir]

Forgive me for allowing the cpu to let me believe its lies...Rachel is in fact very much so never going to land a stomp on a back teching opponent...not my way anyway...

 

[Drahcir]

Thanks, Striker, for helping me see that I am a fool with too much hope! I am going to go drive off a bridge now...Cheers all.

 

[vINv]

rachel is still good ill b posting trainig tips at a l8er date it will b lengthy ill have it up this week end

 

[Itz King Beebop]

rachel is still good ill b posting trainig tips at a l8er date it will b lengthy ill have it up this week end

It shouldn't be that long...

How to play Rachel:

1. Just learn the frames on everything in the game (so you can parry and punish effectively)
2. Use Step 1 95% of the time
3. PK a lot
4. Don't forget Step 2
5. Bounce combos (unless you get a CB)
6. Use SDS for grabs and resets
7. Don't forget Step 2
8. Don't let the opponent get out of 3K range
9. Learn to dash block (A LOT)
10. Don't forget Step 2
11. GRAB (you're a grappler dammit, we don't need no fucking combos)
12. Oh yeah and don't forget 4P

(jk) No(yes), but seriously I'll probably be putting up a FULL Rachel guide soon as well... every one should add their input upon it; with the additional discussion I can modify accordingly

 

[Viper Excess]

This is what I imagine the stomp game to be like:

1. There are no guaranteed stomps off a backteching opponent.
2. Going for stomps as juggle enders always lessens Rachel damage.
3. If the opponent tries to be funny and delay tech, the stomp should counter that plan.
4. An opponent who backtechs or is trained to backtech will no longer be able to wakeup kick.
5. Guaranteed stomps are not a reason to play Rachel (cuz you won't rly find them).
6. Guaranteed stomps can and most likely will make her stomp follow-up kick to whiff (if you end up behind the opponent who wakeup kicks, then you have done good but are lucky).
7. Stomps are best used to encourage backteching. If you have achieved this, then you are in good shape. Next step is actually achieving knockdowns.
8. Whiffing a stomp can be either not too bad to terrible. Observe the opponent's patterns.
9. An opponent who delays backtech can sometimes be a problem. Get him/her near the wall to reduce distance and improve chances of stomping a (delayed backtech) opponent. [plz test?]
10. Deal with her stomp nerf and play her like a heavyweight character. Remember her (reasonable) safety and use her strikes for damage, especially her punish throw. But DO NOT play her like a grappler; she does not have grappler tools. Just play her honestly, try not to get countered, and play her solidly to minimize mistakes.

Anyone else got a list or critiques?

 

[Itz King Beebop]

This is what I imagine the stomp game to be like:

1. There are no guaranteed stomps off a backteching opponent.
2. Going for stomps as juggle enders always lessens Rachel damage.
3. If the opponent tries to be funny and delay tech, the stomp should counter that plan.
4. An opponent who backtechs or is trained to backtech will no longer be able to wakeup kick.
5. Guaranteed stomps are not a reason to play Rachel (cuz you won't rly find them).
6. Guaranteed stomps can and most likely will make her stomp follow-up kick to whiff (if you end up behind the opponent who wakeup kicks, then you have done good but are lucky).
7. Stomps are best used to encourage backteching. If you have achieved this, then you are in good shape. Next step is actually achieving knockdowns.
8. Whiffing a stomp can be either not too bad to terrible. Observe the opponent's patterns.
9. An opponent who delays backtech can sometimes be a problem. Get him/her near the wall to reduce distance and improve chances of stomping a (delayed backtech) opponent. [plz test?]
10. Deal with her stomp nerf and play her like a heavyweight character. Remember her (reasonable) safety and use her strikes for damage, especially her punish throw. But DO NOT play her like a grappler; she does not have grappler tools. Just play her honestly, try not to get countered, and play her solidly to minimize mistakes.

Anyone else got a list or critiques?

The stomp is fully reactable offline as i have stated before, so many people (if they're good) will watch for your stomp tendencies and if you don't have any, they put themselves into the blender themselves, or get blown up with Hi-Counter from doing reactable wakeup kicks...
IMO you can play Rachel like a grappler to an extent... kinda the same way you play Kokoro(?) The big difference is that you're doing more tick throws A LOT MORE TICK THROWS lol

 

[Shiranui]

Just give her her scythe/hammer. Rachel is not made for combat without weapons, or at least this is what Tecmo Koei has proved.

 

[Itz King Beebop]

you... you're the hatemail rachel... why?

 

[Viper Excess]

LOL @ above post, but IDK about playing her grappler-style. If you are referring to using tick throws, her P strings will either be blocked or reacted to very quickly. She does not have the speed nor the recovery to do tick throws very well. She will only be as good as Bayman or Leon to do tick throws (moreso Leon, which I guess is not that bad). If ppl start fuzzy guarding her P strings, forget tick throws. Ppl will be defensive against her P string, but most likely not just straight up block unless the opponent rly freezes up. If that's the case, then bravo. If it happens near the end of the /round/match, then still bravo, because the effort will be worth it (usually).

Besides, Kokoro has much better tools to play that way. She has P2K to discourage fuzzies, PPT for an actual string into throw (no fair!), and she has things like 9P (which cannot be rly reacted to when free cancelled because recovery is just too fast). The only thing Kokoro lacks with grapple-style is improved 12-frame throw damage. If Rachel had any of these, her pressure game would become more offensive, even more (and more varied) strings would have helped.

 

[vINv]

people are failing to understand how to play rachel i will later today explain in detail how to play her ill include frames as well

 

[Pictured Mind]

people are failing to understand how to play rachel i will later today in detail how to play her ill include frames as well

To me it sounds like you want everyone to play a certain way...

 

[vINv]

no wat i mean to say is all ppl see is the stomp ill lay out my opinon on match ups her tools and faqs(frames) ive been having a great deal of sucess with rachel due to alot of lab time but ill post l8r your welcome to add to it

 

[Drake Aldan]

She will only be as good as Bayman or Leon to do tick throws (moreso Leon, which I guess is not that bad).

Don't discount a tick Desert Falcon. That %^&* hurts.

To tick with Rachel requires the other guy to be a little scared, so I guess you have to do well with holding at disadvantage. Of course that is a risk in and of itself (especially so within a limited tournament set) but hey, you take what you can get right...

You do need to stay in close at all times. I tried playing the spacing game with Jann Lee today, it wasn't pretty.

Leon has plenty of guard breaks, and that evil, evil double low kick, so he does OK in close. But Rachel... aside from 2H+K and 66K she really doesn't have the stuff to pile on the advantage.

And 2H+K pushes out, too! I did my standard okizeme, run-up, 2H+K, then 66T and the dude just backwalks out of it like "nyah nyah". %^&* dude.

If her guard breaks were + and 66K was brought back to +5 I think Rach would be totally solid. (And if Viper Twist wallsplatted but we won't talk about that.)




But I mean it is what it is. I'm just complaining for the sake of complaining.

To me it sounds like you want everyone to play a certain way...

Don't bag on him. Information is information, you can learn something from everyone.

 

[Pictured Mind]

Don't bag on him. Information is information, you can learn something from everyone.

I understand that. That he's planning to make a guide/explain things is great. Thumbs up for that.
What I meant is that when he started with "people are failing to understand how to play rachel", it just looks like he doesn´t want people play a certain way. We all have our own playstyle and some playstyles work, some don´t. He made it seem like everyone had a bad style. To me at least...

Well anyway, I´m looking forward to it.

 

[Prince Adon]

Okay wtf are you people in this topic are talking about? I've been following this topic and lets face it there is "no" effective way to play Rachel. There is no "special" technique to using this character. At the end of the day all I've been reading is use the "basic" and "advance" mechanics of the game effectively(which doesn't really tell anyone how to play Rachel since every character can and should be doing that). Not that any of that is wrong, but that's like no shit. That's what players should have been doing even before the nerfs. The difference is Rachel had a legit strategy that allow you to gain a upper hand unlike now.

If you want to play Rachel effectively I can tell to learn her frame data, but that's no shit, right? You should have been doing that from the beginning. How else will you learn to open your opponent up effectively with any character? I can tell you to tick throw, but again. That's a geneeral strategy, why aren't you doing this anyways? I see people still stomping when that shit is -12 now. WHy? Stomp should only be used on people who delay teching, or you are reacting to a wake up kick. Other wise she has no use of it.

Also she has no blender. That term should no longer be used. Now you're just conditioning/tricking your opponent to fall for the same trick over and over(if they are stupid enough), which again is not a strategy, but general common sense.

So what is the effective way to play Rachel? There isn't one. Learn how to effectively use the mechanics(which can be harder than most characters), and out think your oppoonent in the stun game and set them up with sds and launchers, which again, isn't really a strategy for the character but something you should be doing with any character who plays the stun game(which is most). At the end of the day you're better off just listing her best moves, launchers and SDS and not trying to discuss what is the best way to play this character, because there is no character specific way. That is all.

 

[vINv]

that is not true and i will proove it..

 

[Viper Excess]

Well yeah, a tick desert falcon does hurt, but so does getting launched (even as a heavyweight) because of instant max launch height. Getting HiC thrown is very bad, but I just personally get very annoyed when I am HiC launched, because it means a very risky move became a very bad read. Of course it happens all the time online, even when throw punishing. I don't stop throw punishing tho, but I do consider that Rachel needs to make the opponent hesitate first to even try tick throws. I haven't yet reached the part about making opponents hesitate...IDK, maybe it is just me, but attacks seem to dominate in DOA and mixing in throws w/o punishes or counters just seems that risky unless you KNOW the opponent will freeze up.

At the end of the day you're better off just listing her best moves, launchers and SDS and not trying to discuss what is the best way to play this character, because there is no character specific way. That is all.

I get what you're saying, but you do realize which thread you're in, right? There are threads for each of those; this happens to be the strat thread, and AFAIK general techniques are still considered as part of any strategy game (basic or not). Everyone is entitled to explore diff Rachel strats, and it actually seems like ppl here play Rachel in slightly diff ways. I don't think anyone should be discouraged to explore strats and share findings, which is what will probably end up happening with this thread. But it's still ok.

Best launchers, frame data can all be explored in other threads, and even then that kind of data is pretty cut and dry. 7P, 9K, 4H+K, 214P, etc. are known launchers, and the rest is just general "beginner Rachel" stuff, including her frame data. It can still be discussed, but there is a more important question to answer. To launch, you need to hit, and to hit, you need to find ways to open an opponent. The question in this thread is how to hit, with Rachel's weaknesses, so that she can be a more solid character. I don't see a problem with discussion at all; worst case scenario, someone learns something.