Raidou gameplay discussion

[KING JAIMY]

9k should be changed back yeah, it just knocks down now when it used to act like kasumis and give a good launch.
I think underworld drop is fine, 85 damage throw is pretty good when it did 80 in dimensions, I do agree that the i30 OH damage should be be changed back to what it was in dimensions though.

It'd also be nice if he got all his doad guard breaks back, but I dunno if thats too much. I guess we'll see.

Yeah I remember Raidou having a 4P+K guard break which is now his Power Blow.

What I also want to see is more stun advantage from his 66K and 8P. 66K is only +9 on fastest SE allowing nothing to connect. Same goes for his 8P, +12 on fastest SE which allows nothing to connect.

 

[SilverForte]

4 p+k used to be a move akin to hayabusas 4 p+k, would really like to see that move return, as well as the return of leons 214p as a standalone move again.

8p I would like to be +15 on fastest at least, give you something, +17 would be nice as you could get 3p or 33k.

Ah something else. I want ewgf to crush highs, the animation looks like it should yet it doesn't, I've tested it and the normal version of the move crushes highs much better. I think 3p should as well, its a fairly slow mid with no followups, same speed as ryus 3p which does crush highs.

 

[Jefffcore]

If I remember right, both versions of 623p crush high if delayed.

 

[KING JAIMY]

I also just realized that Raidou's 8P got removed from his arsenal, unless that is now his non-EWGF 623P. In any case, 8P was a good juggle in Dead or Alive Dimensions. Sure we have the EWGF now but I would like to see 8P return in its original form since it had great juggle potential and may encourage players to pick up Raidou who are not able to consistently pull off Raidou's EWGF. Of course they would have to give 8P a different input since it is now occupied by his sit-down stun.

 

[SilverForte]

Well the patch notes are out

Matched certain behavior with other characters, and concentrated on making him easier to understand.
PP6P: Fixed an issue which caused a normal hit instead of a crouching normal hit, and changed Critical to Cr(20 → 13).
66K: Changed status at the end of the move from standing to squatting.
214K: Fixed an issue when this was held which caused the opponent to perform the animaion for a jumping mid P hold instead of the correct jumping mid K hold.
P+K: Adjusted input detection to allow P+K to be performed from crouch.
Tag throw: Changed startup from 10 frames to 12 frames.

And, he's pretty much exactly the same, just some bug changes from the looks of it. Not sure what the first change means exactly, I think it means that if you hit pp6p on crouching it'll cause a better stun or somethin. I do like the critical change though, many times I would try to extend stun with pp6p and they would just fall over.

66k change is actually good, before because his status was standing every character could get their full i12 throws off, now they have to go for a crouch throw, hmmm, but then maybe they could go for a strike punish in this case...

p+k change allowed while crouching? I wonder if this means you can press p+k while crouching and he will do it, may be good for somethin.

 

[UncleKitchener]

Actually squatting means that the character is considered both standing and crouching, so that means both standing and crouching throw punish. Bit of a nerf there.

 

[SilverForte]

Thanks to King Jaimy for the tech he posted in the unholdable thread, using 66k after ppp in a juggle.

The great thing about it is that if they dont tech 66k techs them up for advantage, if they do tech to the side they have to block 66k, or get hit, 50/50. Now they can back tech and it will whiff, so its not perfect.

 

[Jefffcore]

Isn't that already in the Raidou unholdable thread?

I just wanna point out that it would still be possible to slow tech it. I still prefer 8k to 4k, it's safe.

 

[KING JAIMY]

Isn't that already in the Raidou unholdable thread?

I just wanna point out that it would still be possible to slow tech it. I still prefer 8k to 4k, it's safe.

Yeah I learned it from you actually but I figured we could use it as a 50/50.

 

[SilverForte]

I have yet for it to whiff on someone who stays on the ground, the problem I have with 8k to 4k is that you lose damage and if they do tech you dont get anything, at least with 66k its a low.

 

[Jefffcore]

But if you continue to use or people will be watching for it, making it a lot easier to react to.

They can both be slow teched, I just wanted to make sure you knew it was possible.

I can see why you would want to use it, but it seems a little less likely to work to me. Depending on who you're playing of course.

It's true you don't get much if 4k hits, but if they keep hitting buttons, you can probably just use any attack you want; If they're blocking you should be throwing; if they're staying on the ground you use 1p. I look at it kinda like fuzzy guarding; it's your safe option if you don't know how they're going to react.

You don't have to play how I do, it's just food for thought.

 

[SilverForte]

Of course it isnt an end all be all option, just one of many tools to add to the repertoire, I have others.

Just somethin to keep in mind. It is useful.

 

[Akumasama]

I think Raidou is in a pretty nice situation. Easy to play and to learn, hard to master if you wanna make good use of EWGF (which is not necessary at all though).
What I feel he would need is a low attack variation from his P, P combo starter. I dunno what, like P, P, 2+K, or P, P, 4+P, 2+K, or something like that.
Also P, P, K should guard crash. The fact it doesn't makes it look so wrong lol


Anyway, I'm totally NOT a high end player, but I noticed some things normally avoided with Raidou because "too obvious" can work out pretty nice exactely for that reason (they are so obvious nobody expects you to use them).

• 1+P, P. Normally you never use the second hit. Which is exactely why sometimes it's awesome to surprise people who think they're gonna crush you with their low frame attacks, to get crushed instead by continuing the string with the second P. Can't abuse of it of course, but it can be a nice tool
• Wake up with 236+K or 236+P. Very useful to surprise those people who stay at the "right" distance from you, expecting a wake up kick or a fast string after wake up, and using a move that makes them go back. They expect to be out of range from your attacks and able to crush you with whatever you'll choose to do. 236+P has an awesome range and it's incredibly useful to use against such people. 236+K in theory works even better but it's high and many of the moves mentioned above have the character go into crouching position (hence 236+K would whiff).
• Wake up with a kick of your choice and then immediately follow with 236+P. I really don't know why, but this seems to be working most of the time for me.
• 1+P+K normally this would be considered useless. You can sidestep it, you can hold it etc. But it has some real good use at Raidou's game with spacing, which is imho a good part of his gameplay when used in synergy with his holds, which usually send the opponent very far away. It's dangerous to use it against characters who have teleport holds (Kasumi, Hayabusa, Alpha) and against opponents who always perform techroll and run towards you (most of the time they will manage to get in range to hold your punch). In all the other situations you can create a lot of nice spacing mind games with this move. Use different delays to catch people who sidestep or hold too early (a LOT of them). If they just guard rush at them and surprise them with 66+P or 66+K, if they sidestep and start running at you, most of the time you'll be able to land a crush hit before they can touch you (2+P, 2+F+K, 7+K etc)
• Purposedly whiffing 214+P from distance. People will expect you to be open and start their attacks or running at you, but then you can surprise them with a very fast 2+P or with a long range 2+F+K, which always seems to create issues since it has a longer range than it seems to have at first glance

 

[SilverForte]

Been experimenting and I think I've found a good use for 7p and 8p.

Think of them as worse versions of ayanes 4k, that is a fast whiff punisher. They both have good range and 8p gets you a 6p unless they stagger fastest, which they probably wont if it hits them out of the blue. This adds to his spacing game.

 

[KING JAIMY]

I usually rely on 236P, 236K and 66P for whiff punishment but interesting finds, Silver. I'm going to hit the lab and experiment with this.

 

[DestructionBomb]

I've been really digging 23646T in ceiling areas. It's just that particular moment where you can do possibilities and it does moderate good damage. So many options where you could enable a free deep stun. It's like alright, I do the throw, hits the ceiling, 7P. Oh you hold? do it again!

I think Raidou has some really powerful stuff involved with ceilings.

 

[Akumasama]

Never thought about that, nice ideas!

 

[SilverForte]

I've been really digging 23646T in ceiling areas. It's just that particular moment where you can do possibilities and it does moderate good damage. So many options where you could enable a free deep stun. It's like alright, I do the throw, hits the ceiling, 7P. Oh you hold? do it again!

I think Raidou has some really powerful stuff involved with ceilings.

Aye, he does, but pretty much every char with a ceiling throw can do what he can do.

 

[DestructionBomb]

Me and @SilverForte . Gotta hand it to Forte but it's quite fun playing with him, I've started using 214K after 214P in training right after we stopped playing.

 

[Gruff757]

I've been on and off practicing Raidou lately. I really like using him, but I've not been playing much DOA as of late.