Revival of Dead or Alive 6, continued dev support: Fanbase fundraiser plan | Read the DESCRIPTION of the video on youtube
- Thread starter NyaMiyamaFighter
- Start date
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Thing is, even if you wanted to make a statement regarding the potential profitability of DOA6, you couldn't. Not even if you got the entire existing playerbase to buy a bunch of cosmetics all at once. TN doesn't get the money, KT does. And it wouldn't be enough to make it onto their quarterly earning reports, so they wouldn't even realize what you were doing.
Even if they did realize, they probably wouldn't care regardless because it would be considered an anomaly, not a trend.
If you want to enact change, you need somebody inside the company in a position of power capable and willing to champion for an idea. Thus far, we have no one. Manny has no power, Tom's power is diminished and he doesn't really care anymore. Shimbori is gone, and Nakamura is a rogue factor more likely to do harm than good.
So all we can do is wait.
Even if they did realize, they probably wouldn't care regardless because it would be considered an anomaly, not a trend.
If you want to enact change, you need somebody inside the company in a position of power capable and willing to champion for an idea. Thus far, we have no one. Manny has no power, Tom's power is diminished and he doesn't really care anymore. Shimbori is gone, and Nakamura is a rogue factor more likely to do harm than good.
So all we can do is wait.
Drugs are great.
NyaMiyamaFighter
Member
I went back to your previous reply so that I could understand your "big picture" that I missed. The only thing I could see that I may have not addressed completely is this comment here: "DLC and extra content they can entice the newcomer to play"
1) The prices of the dlc does not entice newcomers. No one likes DOA's $93 dlc.
2) I think what you meant to say is that it being COMPLETELY free to play with NO time restrictions is what entices newcomers to play.
However... as I acknowledged before, it DOES make them money. But, I will say again, it does not make them ENOUGH money.
I enjoyed our discussion though. Thank you for engaging with me. Maybe there was miscommunication, because I believe my arguments are air tight.
1) I agree with your first comment.
2) Look, the costume and season pass prices are a problem, and we should NOT encourage Koei Tecmo to do more of that trash.
But money talks. They are a business. How else are they gonna want to put money into another DOA that they fear may be another failure if we do not give them money for the most current release of DOA?
"TN doesn't get the money"
I didn't think about that. If what ChosunSamurai (works for KTA) said is true that it's "up to Team Ninja" to continue supporting DOA, then you are right that buying all the dlc will not help, because TN doesn't profit.
"they wouldn't care"
Bad game designers. They could at least nerf the forsaken break hold and give us other small updates once a month or something. They're selfish jerks.
"all we can do is wait"
Goodness gracious, I hate humans. And I hate having to rely on them for my happiness.
Not the ones that take away your sensibilities.
The idea of doing polls was fine, but everything in the video... all that would do is encourage KT to do exactly what we've been trying to DISCOURAGE them from doing this whole time.
Why do you even think DOA6 is dead in the first place? Not just in fan support, but dead in terms of KT no longer supporting it? We basically killed the beast that it had become, and all it took was a bit of collected vocal criticism against a legit issue. Fans backlashed against all the DLC practices KT was doing with DOA6 once their monetized hair colour scheme became the final straw. We fans on this site were among the most vocal/active DOA fans in bringing awareness to KT's new low in their anti-consumer practices, go back and check out the posts. Just look back at the posts from when the hair colour monetization happened. And you basically came here to tell us to go against all that in order to save DOA6, lol.
No one wanted to intentionally kill DOA6, we wanted KT to change their ways, to really let them know that they were legit being unfair with how they were monetizing the game's content, but their answer was basically either "if you don't like how we're monetizing DOA6 then we're just gonna stop updating it, our way or the highway" or "damn we really made ourselves look bad with that crap we pulled, let's put DOA on hold for a while until the heat is off, maybe do better next time"... hopefully it's the latter (but more likely it's the former).
DOA6 support isn't worth having if it means KT keeps treating the series and its fans like trash. Would we really be happier right now if instead of KT ending their support, they had TN make Season Pass #15 by now, with 3 or 4 more characters (maybe at least two of them from XVV), the 100th costume pack that you'd need $20,000 to buy all at once, still had to pay every time we change a character's hair colour, on top of who know what other new scheme they'd inevitably come up with, and we were still complaining about the gameplay with the consensus being it's still better to instead play DOA5LR? The only people that might be happy with that are fans with far too much disposable income... or messed up financial priorities. I don't care how much I love DOA, I'm not gonna let any corporation turn me into a chump.
Don't tell me KT didn't make enough money off DOA5/DOA6 and its season passes. In the absence of hard evidence and just going off what we know, my guess would be KT already made way more money with their methods than they deserved to. DOA6 stopped getting updated directly after it gained mountains of bad publicity, not because it wasn't making them money. If we buy more crappy costumes we're gonna get more crappy costumes, not a DOA7 or DOA6U. XVV is making them a lot of money, so guess what? We get more XVV content. Like Rikuto said, it's out of our hands to do anything, it's all up to KT. Rather than buy up all the DLC we can, I'd rather suggest telling KT directly "we want DOA7". Keep talking about the series, keep tweeting about it, keep putting out content. It probably won't amount to much but they should at least know that the demand for a new game is there, even if they don't want to fund one yet.
I think if anyone is looking for a way to vote with their wallets it should be by buying the BC rereleases of DOA1 to DOA4 on Xbox. Even if you already have the discs to play them, just pay for the digital versions.
Why do you even think DOA6 is dead in the first place? Not just in fan support, but dead in terms of KT no longer supporting it? We basically killed the beast that it had become, and all it took was a bit of collected vocal criticism against a legit issue. Fans backlashed against all the DLC practices KT was doing with DOA6 once their monetized hair colour scheme became the final straw. We fans on this site were among the most vocal/active DOA fans in bringing awareness to KT's new low in their anti-consumer practices, go back and check out the posts. Just look back at the posts from when the hair colour monetization happened. And you basically came here to tell us to go against all that in order to save DOA6, lol.
No one wanted to intentionally kill DOA6, we wanted KT to change their ways, to really let them know that they were legit being unfair with how they were monetizing the game's content, but their answer was basically either "if you don't like how we're monetizing DOA6 then we're just gonna stop updating it, our way or the highway" or "damn we really made ourselves look bad with that crap we pulled, let's put DOA on hold for a while until the heat is off, maybe do better next time"... hopefully it's the latter (but more likely it's the former).
DOA6 support isn't worth having if it means KT keeps treating the series and its fans like trash. Would we really be happier right now if instead of KT ending their support, they had TN make Season Pass #15 by now, with 3 or 4 more characters (maybe at least two of them from XVV), the 100th costume pack that you'd need $20,000 to buy all at once, still had to pay every time we change a character's hair colour, on top of who know what other new scheme they'd inevitably come up with, and we were still complaining about the gameplay with the consensus being it's still better to instead play DOA5LR? The only people that might be happy with that are fans with far too much disposable income... or messed up financial priorities. I don't care how much I love DOA, I'm not gonna let any corporation turn me into a chump.
Don't tell me KT didn't make enough money off DOA5/DOA6 and its season passes. In the absence of hard evidence and just going off what we know, my guess would be KT already made way more money with their methods than they deserved to. DOA6 stopped getting updated directly after it gained mountains of bad publicity, not because it wasn't making them money. If we buy more crappy costumes we're gonna get more crappy costumes, not a DOA7 or DOA6U. XVV is making them a lot of money, so guess what? We get more XVV content. Like Rikuto said, it's out of our hands to do anything, it's all up to KT. Rather than buy up all the DLC we can, I'd rather suggest telling KT directly "we want DOA7". Keep talking about the series, keep tweeting about it, keep putting out content. It probably won't amount to much but they should at least know that the demand for a new game is there, even if they don't want to fund one yet.
I think if anyone is looking for a way to vote with their wallets it should be by buying the BC rereleases of DOA1 to DOA4 on Xbox. Even if you already have the discs to play them, just pay for the digital versions.
NyaMiyamaFighter
Member
I know about hair color "scandal". (LOL)
"you basically came here to tell us to discourage what KT have been doing"
Nah.
This model mainly affects core fighters players. People who buy the full game (the fans), as they should, will not have to be subject to all these micro transactions.
It's actually BENEFICIAL to us who have purchased the full game, because I lowered the season pass prices essentially by 70%. I know you guys at least like that idea.
Koei Tecmo isn't just gonna forget all the backlash they received about these dlc shenanigans. They'll remember and do better next time.
I just want them to use my model IF, and let me repeat myself, IIIFFFF they believe they don't believe the current core fighters model is working out for them financially. If it's doing good for them, great. Don't change it. However, DOA6 is dead and people are basically still getting it for free on all platforms, so...
Oh my goodness, you wrote a lot, Inochinagi <_< I'll be here for a while. LOL
"Hopefully it's the latter"
Former or latter, we're still out of luck. Actually, don't hate me for this, but... I think the former is better. lol Cuz now we got NOTHIN'. We never had to buy their dlc's anyway. They were just costumes and hair colors. Like, the stuff wasn't even significant.
I wish no one complained about it. Now we're left with a trash game to play for probably 3 more years, and not longer than that if we're lucky.
"not worth supporting if KT is treating their fans like trash"
What did they do that was so bad? Overpriced outfits? That all?
Team Ninja cared enough to even hold a big worldwide official tournament series, even if KT had different feelings. I think that if we had just kept quiet and waited before lashing out, what DOA6 could have been would have been better than what DOA6 is now. I think we (not me, I said nothing) lashed out too soon
I really want the break hold to take full meter and for the douglas memorial stage from story mode to be released."would we really be happier right now letting TN release season pass #15 when most say DOA5 is better anyway?"
Um... you wouldn't. But i would. lol
And DOA5LR on pc has no lobbies. I can't stand retail DOA5. I can't bear to play it competitively. It is TOO unforgiving. It is too hard. Once you start getting mixed, especially near a wall, under a ceiling, near a breakable box, there are no options of getting out of that pressure.
that game is TRAAASH. I want more DOA6. It's also trash, but at least it's easy. But even tho it's more casual, it can still be competitive and exciting.
Me and Killer Swagg has the most amazing matches in ranked the other day. I'm gonna upload one later. It was so crazy. DOA5 is frustrating on so many levels.
I ranted a bit, but I digress.
I will be KT's chump if I can get what I need in life to have fun. No other fighting game is good. Smash is almost as good, but the community is too big. What I say will have no impact, because there are millions of other players who voice their opinions.
"my guess is that KT already made way more money on DOA6 than they deserved"
Probably. Honestly, you're making me lose faith in my core fighers idea now. I'm about to drop it and move on to a different plan :/ I do still think it's good tho. lol Just not helpful to revive DOA6.
"buying the background compatibility releases"
Eh... I don't have the money for that. But if you or I can get an official statement from them that they will continue to make new DOA content if we purchase it, I'll find the money to do my part for the franchise.
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I"m so thankful no one else but you gave me a serious reply. I'm tired of writing. I need a 10 minute break. LOL
To be clear: I guess you guys have changed my mind. I'll continue my polls and think of other ways to convince TN/KT.
Honestly if the devs want to do something about the faltering player base, they could redo the point system imo.
Nobody should lose points ever - not even rage quitters.
Players so frustrated they'd quit mid-game need the most encouragement and kicking them when they're down doesn't help player engagement. It's a ghost town online for a reason.
What does it say when good players are avoiding ranked because they're scared of losing rank? Every match should gain a player points, even a loss.
Obviously a win gets you more points but people shouldn't be punished for playing online and that's what the current point system does. Especially with the less than stellar netcode.
IMO it should be +-0 points for a rage quit and the other person could get some amount of points as a "rage bonus." Make it a funny/lucky number like 69, 420, 777 or something for a humourous positive effect. (Make it 710 points and have a special "dab" win pose lol)
I want people who quit to come back. I want people who lose to come back. And that point screen at the end is the key.
Sometimes people have good reason to quit, sometimes they don't, who cares? They're points - they're made up - they're not real. It's a game, people are supposed to be having fun and negative reinforcement is not fun. Losing the fight isn't enough?
Now what if they make "Core Fighters" more like a service like the arcade version where it's always searching for a live game?
Nobody should lose points ever - not even rage quitters.
Players so frustrated they'd quit mid-game need the most encouragement and kicking them when they're down doesn't help player engagement. It's a ghost town online for a reason.
What does it say when good players are avoiding ranked because they're scared of losing rank? Every match should gain a player points, even a loss.
Obviously a win gets you more points but people shouldn't be punished for playing online and that's what the current point system does. Especially with the less than stellar netcode.
IMO it should be +-0 points for a rage quit and the other person could get some amount of points as a "rage bonus." Make it a funny/lucky number like 69, 420, 777 or something for a humourous positive effect. (Make it 710 points and have a special "dab" win pose lol)
I want people who quit to come back. I want people who lose to come back. And that point screen at the end is the key.
Sometimes people have good reason to quit, sometimes they don't, who cares? They're points - they're made up - they're not real. It's a game, people are supposed to be having fun and negative reinforcement is not fun. Losing the fight isn't enough?
Now what if they make "Core Fighters" more like a service like the arcade version where it's always searching for a live game?
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NyaMiyamaFighter
Member
You know, aside from the "dab" comment, I actually really like the idea of no one losing points.
However, then absolute trash noobs will make it to diamond rank. I don't think they should gain even 1 point if they lose a match. Never lose points when they are defeated, but only gain when they win.
"always searching for a live game"
Sounds interesting, I guess... but then when will the newcomer have time to train when they are always interrupted?
All that money could go towards my ffxiv subscription.
It’s a no from me.
Iirc I think the main issue was Phase having her teleport P+K early on in the game that was less than 10 frames iirc, so Xcalibur basically abused that in a tourney and since no one could react to it strangely they slowed it down. There was also the issue with Tina pre patch and Nico but they took away alot of stuff from the less used characters and it caused basically the typical picks to get stronger. Idk if that's the same guy tho responsible for balanceA few of us were talking about Phase 4 pre-nerf and Nakamura on the FSD discord today. One of the things that gets passed around as hearsay about Nakamura is the JP competitive community doesn't trust him when it comes to balance or having a competitive mindset. But it isn't elaborated on why that is.
Can you shed any light on why Nakamura isn't trusted by the competitive JP DOA community?
I figure one of the problems is he balances by character pick rate, which seems like a strange way to balance a fighting game (same with doing it by win rate percentage). Phase 4 was overlooked for balance because he reportedly said "not to worry about her since nobody plays her". And there's the obvious bias in giving Eliot all of Gen Fu's good shit (since Nakamura is an Eliot player)
He's probably going to the be director of DOA7 if that game got green lit today by KT. Willing to give him another chance to learn from his mistakes, like Yasuda did over the disastrous NG3.
With phase tho that was a bad idea since Phase is actually used quite often, but I do feel she isn't as hard as people make her out to be and she's definitely strong mix up and damage wise, you just have to he on top of your teleport cancels to get the most out of her. They also made strange adjustments to most characters tracking 1ps too and they buff specific characters while leaving some untouched who clearly need it. It's like if a character isn't popular already they won't touch them which is odd.
I kinda disagree about the options since everything but he throw from 9P is steppable but characters who have a high crush and time ir right can beat it but they did good fixing it for how it is now. It's like Kasumi's 7P near walls so it should have had a start up that was just as easy to react too imoCredit goes to @WAZAAAAA for this Phase 4 Missile (9PP+K) pre-nerf properties list, it's a doozy:
- not punishable on hold because hold-resistant
- not duckable, because mid
- not Bokuho-duckable, because ground strike property
- not free steppable, don't even bother
- not quite side steppable. Move itself didn't track, but it traveled so much space that 2SS retaliations would easily whiff
- not quite beatable in trades, because solid 25 damage
- not punishable on block, because frame advantage while being a 9F character
- 8 active frames made the frame advantage highly variable, making it even harder to deal with
- unpredictable side switches made it even harder to deal with
- her 9P had multiple options besides the 9PP+K missile: 9PT, 9PP, 9PK, 9P in case you wanted to mix it up/do feints
- long range in a short time
- not reactable with all that speed and options
- ability to bypass the wake up game by just flying over the opponent - triggered explosive floors because why not
It's like Akira, the difficulty is overstated. His inputs are silly but once you get it, it's not hard. Just muscle memory.
I'm going thru Phase 4's combo training at the moment, which I've never done yet. I think once I get the timing down on those on-hit attacks, she'll be a lot easier. But I do sympathize a bit where Nakamura is coming from, most people ain't gonna be picking her since she does require a higher level of dexterity to get the most out of her.
And I wouldn't go that far, Akira himself is a difficult character, the only difficulty with Phase is her TP cancels but they're easier now besides her few just frame ones and you don't generally need those. Everything from Akira revolved around his just frame knees and such and that's far harder than anything phase has in her kit xD
What I'm referring to is your point about people making Phase 4 out as being more difficult than she is. Just need to practice to develop the muscle memory. She has a particular feel to her that takes time to adjust. It's just like Akira. Might be a hot take but I don't find Akira in DOA5 that difficult. His game plan is pretty simple too. He's nowhere near as difficult as he was in VF4. And part of his difficulty in that game were VF4's system mechanics which created a game with an unreachable skill ceiling (for example its throw system).
Raidou is another one that gets cited as being absurdly difficult. I don't agree with that either. His electrics are easier than the Mishimas, using 61234T at the right times, etc. Another muscle memory character. The real difficulty in Raidou for me are the character matchups, but that's the kind of difficulty I'm more interested in than dexterity challenges.
I like characters that require more thinking involved in how to deal with difficult matchups. Fighting games bore me if I pick a character that can steamroll everyone else. It feels much more rewarding when I use a perceived bad character and can beat ones considered top tier. But that doesn't mean I won't salt or rage in the process for those few wins LOL
Speaking of skill ceiling, that is my only real issue with DOA6 is that there's a clear skill ceiling. I haven't reached it but I know it's there. DOA5 had a higher ceiling which I get why the competitive DOA guys prefer that game. Still not my cup of tea though.
People can say those things for sure, but I also wager you will not find many offline tournaments with people regularly applying the moves you mentioned. During online-play you will always find a vastly low-skilled player that is easier to do these moves on. I'll give you Akira because he wins matchups, and JC Akira showed that it could be done in the latest DOA5 tournaments.
Raidou I don't give you. The character is typically under severe pressure, and I've seen him used in enough tournaments to declare that his thunder punch gets dropped a lot, or it doesn't combo as long as someone wanted. Also seen quite a few botched offensive holds.
At the end of the day VF is VF and Tekken is Tekken. DOA has its own things going on and I would argue as well that if these games were so much more complex the players from other games that tried DOA at tournaments would have had a leg-up and they were absolutely embarrassed when it came to offline play. A few of them claimed DOA was an easy game, but at the end of the day it didn't show in their gameplay (this is of course excluding players that genuinely wanted to give DOA a try even if they didn't get far either).
I don't compare inputs to other fighters because it's not accurate to say so with how tournaments pan out. If you believe that Raidou's moves are easy to do I would still recommend him based on what you want because he is difficult to win with. Another reason people frown upon his inputs is because he has to work so hard in comparison to other characters. DOA isn't about hard inputs; it's more about outwitting your opponent. He doesn't get his damage in high level play because he has to go through more hoops to get a fraction of it.
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Teh69thSpartan
New Member
> buy all season passes
Shitpost/Bait detected
Shitpost/Bait detected
NyaMiyamaFighter
Member
If Freestepdodge and others tweeted them that we mass purchased the dlc, I don't think anything but good would come from it.
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WAZAAAAA
Well-Known Member
The age-old question of the internet: "stupid, or pretending?" In this case the answer is: STUPID. The dude has been schizoposting for at least one decade. Disengage.
OpposingFarce
New Member
I had no idea that indifference is "good" these days
NyaMiyamaFighter
Member
I think they would feel an obligation to appease us in some way. DOA1-4 was released on current gen Xbox by their own accord.