The Christie Match-up Thread

iHajinShinobi

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Standard Donor
California
Main Character
Ayane
If possible try to back Ayane into a corner to take away her spacing advantage because she is more dangerous at range than in close in the MU. Once you've got Ayane backed into a corner, you can now try to set up Walled~66H+P, Rolling~H+P, or attempt to wall slam her (Christie has quite bit of moves that can wall slam such as 3K, 7K, 6KK/6KP, KK, 6PPP for instance or numerous moves from JAK). Pressuring Ayane at a wall and keeping her there will net you good damage and stunt any potential momentum that she may try to generate.

This is false, Ayane being backed into a corner does not limit her options, I'm pretty surprised to hear you say this, to be honest. A good 7 movement with good blocking forces an opponent to throw attempt, relieving them of strike pressure and opening them up for hi counter hits. Christie is also more than likely to string herself upclose while trying to delay strings or attempt to throw. You are only looking for one option here, and that is throw.

Blocking anything as Ayane is always a good thing as long as it is negative on block because jab, 2P, 5K and 6P (especially 5K and 6P) give great reward for counter hitting on read. Jab gives you +3 on counter hit and that is huge in this match up. 2P gives you +4 and pushes the opponent back.

As for 1P, 2P SHOULD be preferred here for what I just said about it. 1P is an i15 frame crush, and it is only good as a crush on a read. Because if you're wrong, then you're at -5.

236K is also a great whiff punisher for it's further range than 4K and it's ability to give a mass amount of positioning from it's knockback, and ability to wall slam/wall splat near the environment. This isn't to be overlooked at all.

1P+K K can be safe at -1 when blocked at it's furthest range.

I also went over the Momiji MU a bit more today both as Christie and as Momiji, and the MU is a possible 5.5-4.5 Christie, since Christie is very dangerous to Momiji in close, forcing Momiji to have to zone almost all the time.

This is also false, this is another 5-5 match up. And Christie is not very dangerous up close for Momiji, lol. You are putting way too much emphasis on strike speed. She will blow up JAK stance with ease with 6P, 6PK, 4P, 1P, 7K, 44P.

8P, 1P, and 2H+K deal with jabs from Christie just fine. The moment you block Christie, the one option you need to keep your eye on is throw. Having Christie seem like such a dangerous time up close means Momiji's defense is pretty poor and she is not paying attention to how Christie is striking her.

Having played BlackburryChaos, Awesmic and Kwiggles at TFC. And other Christies offline and in decent connections online, I have yet to feel like I'm at such a big disadvantage versus this character
 
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Randzz

Active Member
Astoria, NYC
Main Character
Christie
Gamertag
Randzz
PSN ID
Randzz01
What about Christie vs Helena, specifically vs that stance of hers? Also what about Christie vs Rachel? I've had more then a few instances of Rachel users practically keeping me juggled for anywhere between 60% to high 70s of my bar.
 

Force_of_Nature

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Toronto, Ontario
Main Character
Ayane
Gamertag
HumbleTitan
PSN ID
Force_of_Nature9
Versus Helena, you can use 6P strings (up to and including 6PPPP) to attempt to "stuff" any attacks out of Bokuho if she's spamming BKO duck. If she does it regularly or predictably, you can low throw her out of the stance. Helena's crushes and evasion is what makes this MU a little challenging, and of course she is always scary when she stuns you. Helena struggles fighting at range, though fighting her in close with Christie isn't a terrible option either due to Christie's superior strike speeds.

Rachel's another opponent that you have to be careful with. Christie is indeed faster than and can outpoke her easily, but that doesn't mean too much if Rachel can equalize the damage game with one juggle or stun reset. Like with most super heavies, you're gunna have to try and reset her with quick pokes, strings, 4T, etc. as much as you can since you won't be able to get as much damage on them compared to middleweights. If you can keep Rachel on the defensive and back her into a corner, you can put a lot of pressure on her. However, like with the other super heavies, be a bit weary of her powerful holds if you choose to start becoming predictable with your strings.
 
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Randzz

Active Member
Astoria, NYC
Main Character
Christie
Gamertag
Randzz
PSN ID
Randzz01
Versus Helena, you can use 6P strings (up to and including 6PPPP) to attempt to "stuff" any attacks out of Bokuho if she's spamming BKO duck. If she does it regularly or predictably, you can low throw her out of the stance. Helena's crushes and evasion is what makes this MU a little challenging, and of course she is always scary when she stuns you. Helena struggles fighting at range though fighting her in close with Christie isn't a terrible option either due to Christie's superior strike speeds.

Rachel's another opponent that you have to be careful with. Christie is indeed faster than and can outpoke her easily, but that doesn't mean too much if Rachel can equalize the damage game with one juggle or stun reset. Like with most super heavies, you're gunna have to try and reset her with quick pokes, strings, 4T, etc. as much as you can since you won't be able to get as much damage on them compared to middleweights. If you can keep Rachel on the defensive and can back her into a corner, you can put a lot of pressure on her. However, like with the other super heavies, be a bit weary of her powerful holds if you choose to start becoming predictable with your strings.

I've been trying to use 1p, or 2K to get her out of that stance, but both moves are too slow. Sometimes her 8p jump works against the stance, the key word there being "sometimes". I've not tried a low throw thinking that it'd be even slower then those moves I've attempted thus far.

As far as Rachel, once she is able to counter me & get me into a juggle is the issue, unless the player hasn't a clue what they're doing with her.
 
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Force_of_Nature

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Toronto, Ontario
Main Character
Ayane
Gamertag
HumbleTitan
PSN ID
Force_of_Nature9
A low throw is i5, it's faster than Christie's fastest low strike, which is i14 from neutral. 6P strings force the Helena player to "guess" at when you'll finish the string, because if they do anything other than continue spamming BKO duck, they'll get CH.

The challenge with Rachel, is the same challenge with Leon, Bass or pretty much any super heavy to an extent. They deal much more damage than you, and have dangerous holds to deter predictable string pressure. They also have low OH's to blow up JAK. It's mostly a case of trying to keep them on the defensive as much as possible by stuffing their attempts at offense with quick pokes, while using 4T & Walled 66T to maintain pressure. But yes, if Rachel hits you, it's gunna hurt.
 
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Force_of_Nature

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Toronto, Ontario
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Ayane
Gamertag
HumbleTitan
PSN ID
Force_of_Nature9
Christie (i9/i11/i14) vs. Brad Wong (i12/i15/i14)

Milk vs. Booze. Which is the superior drink? The Brad MU is unfortunately a bit similar to the Ayane MU in the sense that for both, you need to be very mindful of what stance they're in, and need to find a way to keep their evasive manoeuvres in check.

For instance, when he's in Handstand Stance he has these moves available:

K = i11 Mid K's (can be followed up, up to "KKKK" or transition into Laydown with KK6K for eg.) (Safe on block)
P = i16 Low P that transitions into Laydown (-12 on block)
P+K = i13 Mid K launcher (-11 on block)
H+K = i21 Mid K stunner (Gut in OS, Limbo in CS) (Safe on block)
H+P = i11 High Grab

When Brad enters Handstand, you can jab him out of it immediately with a P or if you're swift you can try 6P since it will outdamage the HS K's (17 dmg vs. 10 dmg). In general you'll want to be fairly close to Brad though one of his weaknesses is ability to approach an opponent with strong keepout. When he enters the stance, and he has the advantage, prioritize Mid K Hold since all the dangerous options are Mid K's.

Brad's options from Laydown Stance (Laydown Feet Towards (LFT)):

P = i35 High P that cause a Faint Stun (Safe on block)
K = i16 Mid K launcher (-12 on block)
6K = i33 Mid K launcher (-11 on block)
H+K = i20 Low K that stays in LFT (-15 on block)
P+K = i23 Mid K that stays in LFT (-9 on block)
H~K = i67 Mid K that pops Brad up (-6 on block)
H+P = i17 OH

Moves from Reverse Laydown Stance (Laydown Heads Towards (LHT) opponent)

*Most moves are variants on the moves from normal LS*

P = i23 Mid P (Safe on block)
K = i16 Mid K (-10 on block)
6K = i38 Low K (-9 on block)
P+K = i21 Mid K launcher (-11 on block)
H+K = i25 Low K (-16 on block)
H+P = i15 OH
H
= i20 Low parry

When Brad goes into Laydown stance, it's essentially a 50/50 between a Mid K hold or some crouching action you'll have to take such as a Low throw to beat out the OH (or toss him out of LS outright), or a low block or low hold to beat H+K. If he transitions into LS off of 236P or Running P, H+KKK or (3)P immediately to knock him out of LS, and beware that he can parry lows such as 2P or 1P in Reverse Laydown Stance (HFT). He can also "Sidestep" LS to avoid linear lows such as 2P. Naturally LS is a "Super tech crouch" stance so it can crush horizontal mids, heavily reducing the effective moves against it. However Christie's H+K or (3)P can rape the stance in close. 4K can be surprisingly effective too. At range, use 8PP to smash Brad's laying down ass.

Brad's options from Backturned Stance:

P - i15 High P with followups
K - i18 High K (+2 on block)
H+K - i13 Mid K (-33 on block, big pushback)
P+K - i13 High P (Safe on block)
2K - i20 Low K that transitions into LS (-15 on block)
2P - i12 Low P (-12 on block & -11 on Normal hit; has a Low K & Mid K followup)
H+P - i6 Grab (can reset his opponent for +12 or blast them away)
6P+KP - i17 Mid P's (Safe on block)
4K - i16 Mid K (-12 on block)
6K - i15 Mid K with followups including a -12 on block Low ender
4PP
- i15 Mid P's (Safe on block)

When Brad is in Backturned Stance, your best bet is to prioritize crouching since the quicker moves are highs, and his BT 2P is deceptively fast at i12. If you block 2P, be sure to be mindful of the two followups: A low K that rolls away and a Mid K that is unsafe on block and punishable by low throw. Brad can use H+K to try and interrupt your attempt at offense and "roll" away. Just block this move and use the advantage to position yourself better. Beware of BT 4PP's sitdown on hit. The move is also only -6 on block. BT H+P is one of Brad's most dangerous grabs, due to its ability to reset his opponent and grant him +12 while remaining in BT stance. In fact Brad has a few "Reset grabs"

BT H+P =
Grants +12 @i6

4 H+P = Grants +11 @i10

Behind H+P = Grants +8 @i5

If you get hit by 4 H+P, Behind H+P is guaranteed. A big part of Brad's gameplan is to mix-up his opponent, then reset them when they get flustered. Try to keep this reset momentum from building.

At R1F, Brad can hold his own deceptively well due to the many stances he can enter before the round starts. From neutral Brad's technically a i12/i15/i14, but at R1F Brad can gain access to his faster moves. Let's recap: In HS, Brad gains an i11 Mid K; In LS he gains an OH and a Mid K launcher with a lot of hit priority, and in BT stance he gains an i12 Low P and an i13 Mid K "interrupter". If Brad is in HS, jab or 6P immediately. If Brad is in LS, 2P or 7K immediately or back away (preferable). If Brad is in BT, be mindful of BT2P and 6PPPP him in the back for a guaranteed BT combo.

When in doubt, you can try to play a ranged game with Brad, because he'll need to get creative with how he approaches. He'll likely try 236P, Running P, or 66K (ranged Low K). He likely won't try 236P from mid range or closer so look out for 66K, since that's usually a go to choice for opening up the opponent. By and large, Christie beats out Brad at ranged neutral, though not by much but he can still mix-up you up if he's at the right range. Watch out for his crane stance (DHO) because it contains moves with good priority such as H+KPP/H+KK and an OH. If he enters DHO from close range, jab or 6P immediately, since his fastest attack is i12. DHO 4K is also quite fast at i13. Just like with HS, either stay very close to Brad or out of the DHO H+K~~~ range. Most attacks in DHO are safe on block .

Brad's options in Crane Stance (Dokuritsu-Ho (DHO))

P
= i12 High P
K
= i15 High K
H+KPP =
i41 Mid K followed by two Mid P's
H+KK = i41 Mid K followed by a High K
H+P =
i19 OH
4K =
i13 Mid K
P+K
= i19 Mid P launcher
6P = i16 Mid P with followups
66P = i20 Mid P CB

The optimal range to fight Brad at is around Mid range or slightly further away to reduce the effectiveness of his mix-up game. When in close, from neutral, Christie pokes much faster than Brad, however he has numerous ways to deal with faster characters in close such as 4P for crushing highs, 4P2 or(8) for crushing highs and sidestepping and of course Laydown Stance for heavily reducing an opponent's offensive options. Your goal will be to find ways to knock Brad out of his stances and keeping his BS in check. 6PP, H+K, (3)P, and 4K will help you do the job. 7K'ing here or there isn't a terrible option too due to how slow Brad's general pokes are.

Overall Brad is a solid character with dangerous mix-ups and resets. However, Christie can be a huge pain in the ass for Brad so I reckon this MU is a 6-4 in Christie's favour due to how well Christie can outpoke Brad forcing him on the defensive, and her effectiveness in knocking Brad out of his stances. Plus, Christie also dominates Brad in the neutral game effectively limiting his offense when he doesn't have the advantage. Beating Brad is based almost entirely on knowing how to deal with his stances and punishing unsafe transitions & moves. If Brad can't gain momentum to run his mix-ups, he's not going to win. Don't let him get in your head!
 
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SoftCabbage

Well-Known Member
SE Asia
Main Character
Christie
Hi, I'm pretty new new to Christie and DOA. Over the last week I've played about 100 online games with her to get a feel and have some questions. I'd appreciate any advice!
1) Zack: I've run into a couple guys that seem to spam the rapid low kicks or rapid high kicks. Literally 80-90% of the play is those rapid fire kicks in succession. If I get caught by it and get knocked down he'll move forward and try to catch me with them as I'm waking up. I've gotten a little better at dealing with them, but it is really annoying. Those have so much reach. It makes me feel like I can't do the normal pressure I like as Christie. What's the best way to deal with kick-spamming Zack?

2) Hayabusa: Not as annoying as above, but I've run into some who spam that double flipping overhead kick. Also that teleport, pop in above you move. Plus, that P+K move has a lot of reach. Any tips on handling these moves?

3) Various: There have been a few characters who seem to beat me on the first punch at the start of the fight. I could understand if they held my punch, but I thought Christie had the fastest jab, so I get a little surprised when I eat the first hit. Is it lag? Are there faster characters? Am I doing something wrong? Tips on the first hit would be great.Thanks!

Hello, fellow noob and Christie player here. Just sharing story and experience, if you don't mind.

1. I've never seen Zack players until the last time I set Throwdown on. But if I get your story correctly, it seems those players like to spam that fast kicks? Apparently CPU does that too and I'm getting used to that shit and able to Mid Kick and Low Kick Hold on them. I'm kinda slow, so most of the time, I'll receive that first few kicks before Hold.

2. Saw one Hayabusa guy who did the exact moves like in your story. He got beaten and sent me a death threat. But hey, in my early days, I used Hayabusa and kinda repeating moves. What players did to me? For the overhead kick, they usually block it. For the overhead teleport, high hold. And I assume the P+K is the one that he screwing horizontally? Side step. Don't ask me how. They're fast at reading moves... lol

3. My friend mains Kasumi and when I use Christie, most of the time I'll lose the match. While 3/4 of Rank Match points I got were gained by Christie.
 
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Randzz

Active Member
Astoria, NYC
Main Character
Christie
Gamertag
Randzz
PSN ID
Randzz01
Hello, fellow noob and Christie player here. Just sharing story and experience, if you don't mind.

1. I've never seen Zack players until the last time I set Throwdown on. But if I get your story correctly, it seems those players like to spam that fast kicks? Apparently CPU does that too and I'm getting used to that shit and able to Mid Kick and Low Kick Hold on them. I'm kinda slow, so most of the time, I'll receive that first few kicks before Hold.

2. Saw one Hayabusa guy who did the exact moves like in your story. He got beaten and sent me a death threat. But hey, in my early days, I used Hayabusa and kinda repeating moves. What players did to me? For the overhead kick, they usually block it. For the overhead teleport, high hold. And I assume the P+K is the one that he screwing horizontally? Side step. Don't ask me how. They're fast at reading moves... lol

3. My friend mains Kasumi and when I use Christie, most of the time I'll lose the match. While 3/4 of Rank Match points I got were gained by Christie.
With the overhead 'busa move the one I love using is her 7K backflip kick. It does damage & has them landing on their rear. The amount of times I've shocked 'busa players with this are too numerous to count, especially in DoA4. They're typically used to people sidestepping that particular move, or even using one of the Jak stances. In 4 it was fairly easy to tell if the 'busa user was using that overhead 'port or one of the others, the overhead 'port had a slightly more noticeable wait time before the 'busa user materialized.

It's been sometime since I played 5LR though, I don't remember if that's still the case, particularly with the latest patch on the console.
 
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Goarmagon

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Standard Donor
The Ejacularium
Main Character
Christie
Man that seems like a very complicated matchup. I was using either 2K or 2H+K with limited success but against better Brad players I was getting killed and trolled.
 

MomijiMania

Member
Main Character
Momiji
PSN ID
momijimania
Recently I've found some small techs to deal with KASUMI,who was a big problem to my Christie.
I will share it ,hope they will help someone.
Because kasumi's invincible 11F 6P has 1 more damage than Christie's(same with any other 11f mid punch),
and her 12F 4P crushes high,
it's better to space a bit out from kasumi,since Christie's 6P has more range and straight follow-ups.
Christie definitely wins range in a mid-close distance,for she has 2HK/P,PP2K/P,6PP,HK/K.
At far distance ,kasumi will use her 66p/p or 66kk or running throw,while Christie has nothing to fight these two,( except HK which requires good timing)
However, all 66p/p,66kk and running throw have very limited range,you can easily back away and punish the whiff,throw or 6K/HK as you like.
And jakeiho 6P will instantly punish her,but this also needs a bit timing,not so easy to do.

She is the only problem for my Christie,I always find it comfortable to fight against any other character except this super fast heroine.
This is all I got , and hope some would tell more to fight kasumi,especially about the CQC strategy aganist kasumi and how to deal with her annoying jump-back wake up CQC.
 
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Force_of_Nature

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Toronto, Ontario
Main Character
Ayane
Gamertag
HumbleTitan
PSN ID
Force_of_Nature9
Recently I've found some small techs to deal with KASUMI,who was a big problem to my Christie.
I will share it ,hope they will help someone.
Because kasumi's invincible 11F 6P has 1 more damage than Christie's(same with any other 11f mid punch),
and her 12F 4P crushes high,
it's better to space a bit out from kasumi,since Christie's 6P has more range and straight follow-ups.
Christie definitely wins range in a mid-close distance,for she has 2HK/P,PP2K/P,6PP,HK/K.
At far distance ,kasumi will use her 66p/p or 66kk or running throw,while Christie has nothing to fight these two,( except HK which requires good timing)
However, all 66p/p,66kk and running throw have very limited range,you can easily back away and punish the whiff,throw or 6K/HK as you like.
And jakeiho 6P will instantly punish her,but this also needs a bit timing,not so easy to do.

She is the only problem for my Christie,I always find it comfortable to fight against any other character except this super fast heroine.
This is all I got , and hope some would tell more to fight kasumi,especially about the CQC strategy aganist kasumi and how to deal with her annoying jump-back wake up CQC.

Thanks for the input.

Overall, I actually don't think Kasumi is a problem for Christie because they play a very similar game, but Christie's overall toolset is superior. Kasumi can beat out Christie on the Mid & Low hit levels, but so can someone like Zack, whom Christie can deal with reasonably well too. IMHO, I find Christie to be more of a pain in the ass to Kasumi then the other way around. The key is improving your defensive ability and getting used to fighting an opponent faster than you.
 
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Force_of_Nature

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Toronto, Ontario
Main Character
Ayane
Gamertag
HumbleTitan
PSN ID
Force_of_Nature9
Christie (i9/i11/i14) vs. Helena (i11/i12/i14)

Alright here it is folks! The showdown that everyone's been waiting for! The battle between arguably the two biggest pain in the asses to each other: Christie vs. Helena. The two so-called "queens of DOA" go at it here in this brutal fight to the death! Lol, well not really, but you get the idea. These two characters are very common at high levels of DOA5 play and there is a good reason for that. These two characters excel at offensive pressure, stun-manipulation, high & low-crushing, and evasion. Success depends on whoever is able to effectively get their offensive momentum going first or whoever does the better job of thwarting their opponents attempts to get their offensive pressure started. It's not an easy battle, but there can only be one winner...

Helena's General Pokes

P = i11/ -3 on block/ -3 on hit/ 10 dmg (High P)
3P
= i12/ -14 on block/ -12 on hit/ 18 dmg (Mid P)
K
= i12/ -9 on block/ +6 on hit/ 24 dmg (High K)
4K = i14/ -15 on block/ +7 on hit/ 23 dmg (Tracking High K)
3K
= i15/ -10 on block/ +2 on hit/ 23 dmg (Mid K)
2P
= i14/ -4 on block/ +0 on hit/ 5 dmg (Low P)
2K
= i14/ -13 on block/ -11 on hit/ 10 dmg (Low K)
66P
= i14/ - 5 on block/ +3 on hit/ 20 dmg (Mid P)
1P = i17/ -13 on block/ -11 on hit/ 15 dmg (Tracking Low P, Transitions into BT, Strong Hi-crush)
FC 3P = i13/ -13 on block/ -8 on hit/ 20 dmg (Mid P, Mid crush)
4P = i15/ -17 on block/ -16 on hit/ 18 dmg (Tracking Mid P, Transitions into BT, Strong Hi-crush)
P+K = i18/ -15 on block/ +30 on hit/ 22 dmg (Mid P, Strong Hi-crush)

In terms of neutral poke speed Helena's around "average" to slightly "above average". Her i11 5P is pretty bad and deals only 10 damage as opposed to the 11 damage i11 jabs usually deal. However her i12 5K is amazing and can be very dangerous. Helena's 5K string has two follow-ups in the form of 5KK & 5KKK. This is a fast High K-Mid K-High K string that can be used to lock you down and throw you on the defense thanks to the powerful delay & quick speed between kicks. The second kick being a mid makes it tough to duck under this string compared to most "KKK" strings. You'll generally have to guard it standing and try to anticipate when Helena ends the string. She is unsafe after any part of the 5K string is finished allowing for a 6T throw punish. There is an alternate string to 5KKK in the form of 3KKK that looks almost identical but starts as a mid kick. The string is essentially a fast Mid K-High K-Mid K string that opens with an i15 linear mid kick and ends with a mid kick that is -11 on block. It's tricky at times to tell if you're dealing with 5KKK or 3KKK, so on block you can wait it out and punish accordingly (look out for delays & free cancels). If you get hit by any part of the 5KKK or 3KKK string, you will be stunned and put into critical stun. If you get stunned, slow escape efficiently to limit Helena's follow-up options, which are fairly ludicrous any way. 5KKK & 3KKK are linear attacks, but the strings retrack very well and can stuff sidestep attempts easily including JAK stance.

To start Helena's offense, she will usually try to utilize some sort of hi-crush manoeuvre such as FC 3P~, 1P~, 4P~, P+K~. These are the moves that Helena will use to try and hi-crush your attacks to set-up powerful stun mix-ups. Be particularly weary of FC 3P, a powerful i13 mid P that has the ability to crush highs very well and even some mids. A common string used is FC 3P4P, which starts with the FC 3P poke then transitions into bokuho (BKO) stance via "Flappy Hands". FC 3P4P stuns very well and sets you up for a strong BKO mix-up. If you block, FC 3P4P, Helena will be at -4 in BKO stance, meaning that you can get a free attack against her. Helena's fastest attack out of BKO is BKO P at i11 and 10 damage. Any attack i15 or faster and dealing more than 10 damage will beat out anything she tries to attack with forcing her to either exit the stance and block or try to utilize the BKO Duck. Christie's 2P is i14 so it'll beat out anything Helena tries out of BKO including the repulsive BKO Duck. 6P is also a decent option because Helena will be forced to either try to duck all 4 potential strikes in the form of 6PPPP or exit the stance and block the string. Of course you should free cancel somewhere but the point is to keep Helena on the defensive where she doesn't like to be.

General pokes from Bokuho Stance:

BKO P = i11/ -3 on block/ -2 on hit/ 10 dmg (High P)
BKO K = i12/ -13 on block/ +35 on hit/ 28 dmg (High K, Unsafe)
BKO 6P = i12/ -12 on block/ +9 on hit/ 12 dmg (Mid P)
BKO 2K = i19/ 10 on block/ +13 on hit/ 22 dmg (Tracking Low K, Unsafe)
BKO 4P = i14/ -5 on block/ -4 on hit/ 16 dmg (Mid P, Transitions into BT)

Launchers from Bokuho Stance:

BKO P+K = i19 (Mid P, Transitions into BT, High launcher, Unsafe)
BKO 6K = i16 (Mid K, Has a low follow-up that stuns and transitions into BKO, BKO 4PK also launches)
BKO H+K = i18 (High K, Transitions into BKO, Unsafe)
BKO 3P+K = i18 (Mid P, Unsafe)
BKO 6PPK = i12 (Mid P x2, High K, Transitions into BKO, Unsafe)
BKO PPK = i11 (High P x2, Mid K 2-in-1, Unsafe)
BKO H+P = i12 (Launcher throw, Helena's highest damage throw)

If Helena's in BKO stance, chances are you've been stunned by an attack that has transitioned into BKO. If you block a BKO entry transition, Helena will be at negative frames in a stance where she is unable to guard and is forced to either attempt a BKO duck, exit the stance and block or try to "out-strike" you. The most common negative frames for a BKO entry transition is -4 or worse. The exception is 236P+K which is +1 on guard. If Helena is in BKO at -4 on block, your safest response is to 2P, though you can try forcing her on the defensive with 6PP~. Sidestepping is also an ok option against BKO since a lot of BKO attacks don't track. Though, any strings like BKO 4PKP, or BKO 6PPK will retrack into you. While Helena is in BKO, prioritize BKO K, BKO 6P~ & BKO 2K in terms of attacks to look out for. It's also good to be mindful of BKO PP2K and BKO 6KK. BKO can also be low thrown if you get the opportunity to do so safely.

Now onto the shatterer of dreams, the dreaded BKO Duck. BKO~22 is the move that makes Helena's opponents chuck their controllers at the wall. This move crouches more shit then Brad Wong's laydown stances. BKO Duck essentially ducks all highs and horizontal mids, and hell, some vertical mids too! Basically any mid that doesn't hit grounded can be ducked including Christie's 7K & H+K~ for example. To beat out BKO Duck, you need to use a low, a "true mid" that hits grounded, or a low throw. Low offensive holds work great against BKO, but unfortunately Christie doesn't possess any. When in doubt, just 2P. If you can find ways to discourage Helena's BKO Duck, you can make this MU just that more easier for Christie.

Helena can be very dangerous in close if she gets on the offense with momentum, but unfortunately for her, her range sucks. Fortunately for Christie, this serves as an opportunity to halt Helena's attempts at offense through effective keepout, zoning, and essentially abusing her shit neutral game. When fighting at mid range, use 2H+K~, H+K~, 4K~, and 6PP~ to keep Helena at bay and limit her opportunities to get an offense started. At range Helena may try to 66KPP, or 66P you. 66P is safe on block, and is quite fast but its range is a bit on the poor side. The move doesn't provide much reward on hit for Helena either. 66KPP is a Low K-Low P-Mid P string with good range despite being a little on the slow side. This string low crushes very well, then high crushes very well ending in a chargeable guard break. The string is holdable on reaction so be vigilant. Take note that Helena can also use 66K2 to transition in BKO instead of completing the highly telegraphed string. Helena may also try run up 5KK~ or 3KK~ to try and poke you while fishing for a stun. Intercept with the above mentioned pokes to thwart these attempts. 6PP~'s a good go-to intercept. Helena may also try to enter BKO with FC 3P4P to attempt to "forego" the neutral game (though it's generally risky for her to do that regularly). The string is all mid punches and follow-ups in the string are holdable on reaction on block or hit. If the string gets blocked, 2P to stuff all her options if you're unsure what she'll do.

Helena does have numerous Back-Turned stance options, but the main ones to note are BT 4P & BT 4K which are i12 Mid Ps and Mid Ks respectively. Most transitions on block into BT will leave Helena at negative allowing you to stuff her attempts at offense with 6PP~ or 5PP~. 6PPPP is guaranteed if it hits the opponent in the back, even on NH. If Helena enters BT'ed via a CH 4P or CH 1P for instance, you'll have to be patient on the defensive and try to note what she's trying to follow-up with. 1PPK is a Low-Low-Low string that is unsafe on block and holdable on reaction. 4PP~ is a Mid P-High P string with 4PPP as an unsafe Mid P ender or 4PPKK as an unsafe Low K ender. If you're stunned, you'll obviously have to attempt a critical hold to escape the predicament. Learning to hold the 1P & 4P strings on reaction can prove quite useful when dealing with Helena.

Also take heed of Helena's reset throws. Helena's throw game in general is average damage-wise, but her reset throws compliment her stun game. The throws to watch out for are:

214H+P i12/ +9+BT, Transitions into BKO/ 30 dmg
BT H+P i15/ +9 +BT/ 15 dmg
BKO H+P i12/ 25 dmg+

The Christie vs. Helena MU is probably one of the most famous MU's in DOA5 thanks to the potency and popularity of both characters. Overall I'd rate the MU a 5.5-4.5 (5-5 if rounded) in Christie's favour due to how well she can put Helena on the defensive along with "interruption" ability thanks to her i9 5P & i11 6P. The biggest nuisance in this MU for Christie is dealing with the BKO Duck, but if you can keep that in check, then this MU will generally swing in Christie's favour. That is of course as long as you're not letting your ass get stun reset all day. Make sure that Christie's the one doing all the stunning, ok? Good!

Merry Christmas! ;)
 
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Tenro

Active Member
PSN ID
tenro007
i can share some of my experience with playing rachel and playing against rachel as christie.

a rachel player's greatest bane is the delay ability of christie's strings which can get too ridiculous at times . but the greatest advantage rachel has over i think any character of the roster is her monstrous CH stun . one CH stun is all rachel needs then it's just a matter of correct read on ur part because good luck with slow escaping against her .

rachel in neutral will try to open you with anyone of these:-
1.PPT or 66T . this move is actually her only tool which can actually force christie to respect her because her 66k is only a +1 GB and that means nothing against her . same goes for her 2p's +1 advantage . ppl will actually use the raw version (66T) after your semi safe/safe moves because that OH can become quite potent even against something as small as -4 or -5 . and if u get CH or hi CH OH she gets guaranteed combo.
2. 4pp2p . the 2nd and 3rd punches are extremely delayble AND they are all TRACKING mid p's so if u try to use JAK or SS , eat that juicy crumple stun to the ribs but it is heavily punishable if u duck it .
3. 2H+K . this kick also comes out from her punch string and by itself has on okayish speed of 17 frames . on NH this is also a +7 stun after which i wouldn't hit a button if i were you .

christie's string delay is no new revelation but rachel's string delay is quite powerful as well . it's good enough to actually give u legit tick throw window and momma's throws hurt , seriously .as far the question goes about throw punishing rachel , she is surprisingly quite safe and christie is no grappler so u can fuzzy -7 against her easily .

this was just to highlight some small points that rachel players use to initiate her stun game .

ironic enough , i think that both characters in the end will rely on one thing to beat the other as well save themselves and that is a SOLID DEFENSE. because both christie and rachel players get jumpy if they don't get their stun soon.
 

Force_of_Nature

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Toronto, Ontario
Main Character
Ayane
Gamertag
HumbleTitan
PSN ID
Force_of_Nature9
Like with Ein or anyone else that has a low OH, Rachel's low OH can prove useful in this matchup for thwarting JAK, or forward rolls, allowing her to gain some momentum and get her offense started. I'd say the Christie-Rachel MU is around 6-4 in Christie's favour. Good stuff! Adding to the MU compilation thread.
 

Force_of_Nature

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Toronto, Ontario
Main Character
Ayane
Gamertag
HumbleTitan
PSN ID
Force_of_Nature9
Christie (i9/i11/i14) vs. Bass (i13/i15/i17)

Christie vs. Bass. Fast buttons vs. Slow buttons. Sounds bad on paper, but Bass is one of those characters that can quickly show you that slow, yet powerful buttons, can always be a threat, even to the fastest of characters such as the speed demon Christie. Don't get cocky now, and never discount the power that the big guy possesses!

Here's a rundown of Bass' pokes:

P = i13/ -2 on block/ +0 on hit/ 13 dmg (High P)
6P = i15/ -4 on block/ -3 on hit/ 24 dmg (Tracking Mid P)
K = i14/ +2 on block/ -1 on hit/ 33 dmg (High K +GB)
6K = i14/ -10 on block/ +14 on hit/ 26 dmg (Mid K)
2P = i17/ -7 on block/ -5 on hit/ 5 dmg (Low P)
2K = i16/ -10 on block/ +0 on hit/ 12 dmg (Low K, Unsafe)
P+K = i12/ -8 on block/ +26 on hit/ 26 dmg (High P, Unsafe)
3K = i15/ -7 on block/ +5 on hit/ 26 dmg (Mid K)
1K = i18/ -12 on block/ -6 on hit/ 18 dmg (Low K)
1P = i22/ -16 on block/ +12 on hit/ 26 dmg (Tracking Low P)
4P = i17/ -4 on block/ +0 on hit/ 16 dmg (Tracking Mid P)

Strings off of main pokes

P
PPP (HHM) (-GB)
PP2P (HHL) (Tracking, Unsafe)
PPK (HHH) (+GB)
PKP (HMM)
PKK (HMH)

6P
6PP (MM) (Tracking, -GB)
6PK (MH) (Tracking, Unsafe)

6K
6KP (MM) (Unsafe)
6KK (ML) (Unsafe)

2P
2PP (LH) (Unsafe)

3K
3KP (MM)
3KK (MH)

1K
1KP (LM) (Unsafe)

1P
1PP (LM) (Tracking, -GB)
1PP+K (LH) (Tracking, Unsafe)

4P
4PPP (MMM) (Tracking, +GB)
4PPP+K (MMH) (Tracking, Unsafe)

A good thing to note in this MU is knowing what's advantage on block and what's negative. Like most characters, Bass is usually slightly unsafe if you were to block a string ender, however he is safe on any of his "negative" Guard Breaks for the most part and is safe on strings such as variations of 3KP (only -2 on block) or variations of 9K like 3KK (only -4 on block). Since Bass is so much slower than Christie (and more than 2/3's of the cast), you can confidently poke back at him since he'll have to respect your speed and striking ability. Your i9 jab will be quite handy for interruption too. Be sure to punish 6KP (-11 on block) every time you block it since it is a go to string to set up Bass' brutal oki game. Punishing P+K would also help out in this MU to discourage Bass' fastest poke and a key CH stun tool. 1P/1PP is the main low attack to look out for (along with 1K) due to its instant hi-crush capability and tracking. Try to hold the 2nd hit on reaction, but be wary of 1PP+K as a "mix-up attempt" (which is unsafe like P+K). Discouraging Bass' 1P~ mix-up shenanigans (1P~3K, or 1P~33P, etc.), can put a thorn in his low game if you can take away this tool.

Bass' Positive Guard Breaks

K = i14/ +2
4PPP = i17/ +6
33PP = i16/ +5
2H+K = i27/ +1
66P+K = i19/ +0 (Can be + advantage if tossed further out, thus manipulating the frames on block)
8H+K = i20/ +2
214P = i27/ +3
66K = i18/ +3
236P = i20/ +4
41236P+K = i21/ +6
7PP = i22/ +10 when fully charged
1P+K = i40/ +6 (+24 when fully charged)
7P+K = i40/ +16 when PB is active and charged

Probably the biggest key to working this MU is knowing which GB's are + and which are -. Good GB's like 66K or 33PP you have to watch out for, but feel free to poke back after blocking "fraudulent" GB's like 6PP or 1PP. After you block a positive GB, your primary response should be to continue blocking, however you can also use Christie's 5P~ or 6P~ to try and discourage most of Bass' follow-up options after a GB. The downside of continuous blocking is leaving your self open to Bass' fast OH's such as 66T or 41236T. Using hi-crush moves such as 2P, 2H+K or 1P can be a nice deterrent to Bass' highs and throws forcing him to have to try and continue pressure with a mid such as 6P, 4P, 6K or 3K for example. His go to lows, 1P & 1K aren't particularly fast and can be out-poked by 2P under most circumstances (Bass' 2PP is Low-High so the second hit is crouch-able). For the strings that lead into GB's you can generally hold the last hit if you're sharp and watching out for it. The main X-factor in this MU that Bass has to respect even when he's at significant advantage is Christie's JAK stance, which can sidestep Bass' linear moves, thus forcing him to use tracking moves such as 4PP~. At light advantage such as around +3 or less for Bass, you can attempt to "out-poke" majority of his options with Christie's i9 jab.

Bass' Offensive Holds techniques

66T = i16/ 42 dmg
41236T = i18/ 45 dmg
41236T (Charged) = i32/ 68 dmg
41236T (Charged) ~23698T~82T = i37/ 90 dmg
8T = i32/ 52 dmg (Jumping OH)
3T = i10/ 52 dmg (Low OH)
BT T = i10/ +15 on hit
BT 2T = i10/ 30 dmg/ +10 on hit (Low OH)

Once Bass has you on the defensive he will try to work in his OH's into his battle strategy. You don't really want that. Use 2P's, 2H+K's and 1P's against OH attempts (OH's can still catch hi-crush mids such as FC 3P). Though if you know he'll OH you, you can always throw him with something like 63214T for 87 dmg on Hi-counter! Big note also that Bass' Low OH can stop JAKs in their tracks!

Likely the largest equalizer in this MU is this throw: 6T. i6/ 50 dmg/ +10 on hit. Any time Bass blocks something about -7 or worse, you're likely eating a 6T for your troubles. All of sudden, moves such as 214P become notably unsafe. When you have Bass on the defensive, he'll be looking to start his offense with this throw. If you get hit by it, you'll have to eat Bass' mix-ups. You can attempt to fuzzy guard or JAK afterwards though his follow-up attack speeds can vary a fair bit based on how he desires to continue the attack (i.e. a GB, an OH, a quick strike like 6K or he can throw out another 6T to annoy you and reset the situation). If he's not following up with quick strikes like 6K or 6P, for example, then you can get away with occasionally 2Ping him.

The other strong equalizer is Bass' Pick-up, Grounded 2T. i7/ +13 on hit. Anytime Bass scores a hard knockdown, he will generally try to "Pick you up" with 2T if you're nearby, or not teching the knockdown. If you get grabbed by this, the same rules apply like if you got hit by 6T. Try to predict his striking and OH pattern to know when to take defensive action, or when to attack with something like 2P.

Once you have Bass at mid-range or further, he's gunna try to get in on you with attacks such as 66P+K, 6H+K, 66K or run-up 3K for example. None of the attacks he'll approach with are advantage on block (66P+K is +0 which is, like, -5 for Bass anyway, though can gain more advantage if he connects on your block from further away), except one, so you can attack after blocking anything. That is except 66K which is +3 and leaves Bass BT'ed. If you block 66K be very wary of BT T, an OH that sets up very damaging combos. He also has a low BT OH if you choose to crouch or JAK after blocking 66K. In this situation you may have to guess a little but the advantage is only +3 so your 2P, 6P or 5P, if you're feeling frisky, may be able to stuff quite a bit of options. Your main focus will be to look out for the BT OH and try to note what follow-ups he may use (6K, 6P & 4P tend to be likely follow-up pokes after a +GB). If you're fighting him at mid-range, poke with 4K, H+K, 6PP or 2H+K.

By and large I actually think the Bass MU is closer than may appear on paper, and not as morbidly dismal as some people may make it out to be due to how well Bass can punish Christie, one of the more unsafe characters in the cast. Bass' 6T is always a threat ready to punish any costly mistakes. I'd say the MU is around 6-4 Christie mainly because of her significant speed & pressure advantage, though the main tipping factor in the MU comes from Christie's interruption capability with her i9 jab and the ability to limit Bass' options on offense through utilization of JAK. Though Bass' weight will limit your damage somewhat, especially with a lot of Christie's damage coming from juggles. Christie being a Middleweight also allows Bass to get solid damage off of his juggles. But that doesn't really change the fact that Christie will be hitting Bass much more often than he's hitting you if you can keep your poking, spacing and footsies in check. However, as soon as Bass hits that 6T or gets a Pick-up, the tables can be quickly turned and a lot of hurt will follow. Do not let that happen! One of the worst things you can do when facing Bass is underestimating how much of a threat he really is to majority of the cast, and Christie is no exception.
 
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UncleKitchener

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
London, UK
Main Character
Bass
Bass is 12i/14i/16i

P+k and 6k and it's not a good idea ignoring 6k since 6kp depending on player experience can end up being a common sight into a pickup.

Post 6T he can 6p all attempts other than plain backdashing against said button (214p is not fast enough to punish him after recovery). 41236p+k was specifically a move he got for this MU as a post 6T situation is simplified with opponent being conditioned to try JAK. It usually comes down to how you can avoid conditioning and how avoid unfuzzyable options like TFBB and OHs.

Mid-range 66p+k is +2/+3. The miscunception is that it's 0 from said range due to faulty or lazy buffering. Buffering the move without initiating a dash gives no room for error. There's also his WR 4p+k which he uses for high crushes in this situation, so mids end up being moreleased effective pokes in these situations.

46p is also beginning to see use due to range especially after oki.

His 1p, pk, WR 4p+k and 214p are also threatening.

Some players attempt to stun and 4h+k to get a cheap pickup.

Bass has the most trouble getting good frame advantage from vortexing this particular character as she's both a mid-weight and fast. He's more like to use his faster pokes.

Overall, thanks for the writeup. Just wanted to add a couple things.
 

Force_of_Nature

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Toronto, Ontario
Main Character
Ayane
Gamertag
HumbleTitan
PSN ID
Force_of_Nature9
Bass is 12i/14i/16i

P+k and 6k and it's not a good idea ignoring 6k since 6kp depending on player experience can end up being a common sight into a pickup.

Post 6T he can 6p all attempts other than plain backdashing against said button (214p is not fast enough to punish him after recovery). 41236p+k was specifically a move he got for this MU as a post 6T situation is simplified with opponent being conditioned to try JAK. It usually comes down to how you can avoid conditioning and how avoid unfuzzyable options like TFBB and OHs.

Mid-range 66p+k is +2/+3. The miscunception is that it's 0 from said range due to faulty or lazy buffering. Buffering the move without initiating a dash gives no room for error. There's also his WR 4p+k which he uses for high crushes in this situation, so mids end up being moreleased effective pokes in these situations.

46p is also beginning to see use due to range especially after oki.

His 1p, pk, WR 4p+k and 214p are also threatening.

Some players attempt to stun and 4h+k to get a cheap pickup.

Bass has the most trouble getting good frame advantage from vortexing this particular character as she's both a mid-weight and fast. He's more like to use his faster pokes.

Overall, thanks for the writeup. Just wanted to add a couple things.

No problem dude, contributing what I can! Thanks for the input. Yeah, I haven't forgotten about P+K & 6K/6KP. I go by: Jab speed (5P), Elbow speed (6P) & Low jab speed (2P) since they're standard "safe" pokes universal to the cast. P+K is unsafe & 2K doesn't high crush. I noted in the write-up that 6KP can be very dangerous if you let the opponent get away with it. Mainly, I wanted people to not get cocky in the MU and think that Christie can just walk all over Bass mindlessly.
 
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