The Christie Match-up Thread

UncleKitchener

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Bass
No problem dude, contributing what I can! Thanks for the input. Yeah, I haven't forgotten about P+K & 6K/6KP. I go by: Jab speed (5P), Elbow speed (6P) & Low jab speed (2P) since they're standard "safe" pokes universal to the cast. P+K is unsafe & 2K doesn't high crush. I noted in the write-up that 6KP can be very dangerous if you let the opponent get away with it. Mainly, I wanted people to not get cocky in the MU and think that Christie can just walk all over Bass mindlessly.
But why prioritise regular jab over his essential pokes? I really see no reason to do so and his game is about poking and throws anyway. It makes sense for other characters since their elbow class moves, jabs and 2ps are mostly safe, but Bass doesn't work like that.
 

Force_of_Nature

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Ayane
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But why prioritise regular jab over his essential pokes? I really see no reason to do so and his game is about poking and throws anyway. It makes sense for other characters since their elbow class moves, jabs and 2ps are mostly safe, but Bass doesn't work like that.
You're looking into that too much. I was just using base numbers. But yes, literally Bass' fastest high is i12, his fastest mid is i14 and his fastest low is i16, from neutral at least. I wrote down Bass' main poke speeds in the next section if anyone cares to see those numbers anyway.
 

UncleKitchener

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London, UK
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Bass
You're looking into that too much. I was just using base numbers. But yes, literally Bass' fastest high is i12, his fastest mid is i14 and his fastest low is i16, from neutral at least. I wrote down Bass' main poke speeds in the next section if anyone cares to see those numbers anyway.

Been busy with work but here''s my response.

I've read the post as whole and I understand your intention but priority order in this case should be given to th fastest moves. To make a comparison, VF Wolf in MU discussions has his fastest mid listed in discussions since he doesn't have a traditional elbow like the rest of the cast and his 6p is slower than 3p or buffered 63214p. If a player tries to counter poke him after they land an elbow on block and read the numbers wrong, then it'll cause confusion when they get hit out of their abare attempt.

Also ignoring priorities in this case could misinform the reader as these buttons (p+k, 6k & 2k) come into play more often in the metagame especially after a vortex that the 13i/15i/17i ones. Situations after a blocked 214p where he's +3 also make it ideal to use faster pokes.

Also I overlooked another thing: light charge 41236h+p starts from 28i not 32i.
I'll let you know if I find anything else but I think that's it for now.
 

Force_of_Nature

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Been busy with work but here''s my response.

I've read the post as whole and I understand your intention but priority order in this case should be given to th fastest moves. To make a comparison, VF Wolf in MU discussions has his fastest mid listed in discussions since he doesn't have a traditional elbow like the rest of the cast and his 6p is slower than 3p or buffered 63214p. If a player tries to counter poke him after they land an elbow on block and read the numbers wrong, then it'll cause confusion when they get hit out of their abare attempt.

Also ignoring priorities in this case could misinform the reader as these buttons (p+k, 6k & 2k) come into play more often in the metagame especially after a vortex that the 13i/15i/17i ones. Situations after a blocked 214p where he's +3 also make it ideal to use faster pokes.

Also I overlooked another thing: light charge 41236h+p starts from 28i not 32i.
I'll let you know if I find anything else but I think that's it for now.

Don't worry about it, they're just base numbers to give an approximation of the character's poke speed. That's why I wrote out the speeds of attacks such as P+K, 6K & 2K also. It's also why there's a write-up in the first place, to give you an idea of what the character is like so people aren't completely in the dark against said character. People can take whatever they want out of it and see what works for themselves.
 

Force_of_Nature

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Christie (i9/i11/i14) vs. Eliot (i10/i14/i15)

"MILK PLEASE!" Sorry, I couldn't resist :oops:! The mature Christie gets to play with the aspiring upstart Eliot in this match-up here! Eliot is a dodgy one because you don't see him get utilized that often and when he's throwing strings out, it looks like he's just flailing random moves at all hit levels. As you can guess, Eliot excels at making you wonder just what the fuck he's doing when he's on the offense in close. To be fair, Christie excels at that too, but Eliot has slightly more string variation to worry about in contrast. If you don't know how Eliot's strings work, he will run rings around you. It's cliché, but knowing is half the battle! Oh, and Eliot has a 10-hit string!

Eliot's Neutral Pokes

P = i10/ -1 on block/ -1 on hit/ 10 dmg (High P)
6P = i14/ -12 on block/ -11 on hit/ 18 dmg (Mid P)
K = i13/ -10 on block/ -1 on hit/ 20 dmg (High K)
6K = i21/ -10 on block/ +19 on hit/ 20 dmg (Mid K)
2P = i15/ -4 on block/ +0 on hit/ 5 dmg (Low P)
2K = i15/ -7 on block/ -2 on hit/ 12 dmg (Low K, Unsafe)
3K = i14/ -8 on block/ +5 on hit/ 20 dmg (Mid K)
1K = i18/ -9 on block/ -7 on hit/ 15 dmg (Low K)
1P = i17/ -19 on block/ -18 on hit/ 10 dmg (Low P)
4P = i15/ -9 on block/ -8 on hit/ 18 dmg (Mid P)
4K = i16/ -6 on block/ +1 on hit/ 24 dmg (Tracking Mid K)
6PP = i15/ -13 on block/ +21 on hit/ 22 dmg (Mid P)
P+K = i18/ -9 on block/ -6 on hit/ 20 dmg (Mid P)

Strings off of Main Pokes

P
PPP (HHM) (Unsafe)
PP46P (HHM) (+GB)
PPK (HHH) (Tracking, Unsafe)
PP2P (HHL) (Unsafe)
PP4P (HMH) (Unsafe)

6P
6PPP (MHM) (Unsafe)
6PPK (MHH) (Tracking, Unsafe)
6PP2P (MHL) (Unsafe)

K
KK (HH) (Tracking)
K2P (HL) (Unsafe)

6K

6KK (MH) (Tracking, Unsafe)
6K2KP (MLM) (Unsafe)

3K

3KP (MM) (Unsafe)

1K
1KPP (LHM) (Unsafe)
1KPK (LHH) (Tracking, Unsafe)
1KP46P (LHM) (+GB)
1K4PP (LMH) (Unsafe)
1KP2P (LHL) (Unsafe)

1P
1PPPPPP (LMHMHM) (Unsafe)
1PPPPPK (LMHMHH) (Tracking, Unsafe)
1PPPPP2P (LMHMHL) (Unsafe)
1PPK (LMM) (Tracking, Unsafe)
1PP2K (LML) (Unsafe)

4P
4PPPPP (MHMHM) (Unsafe)
4PPPPK (MHMHH) (Tracking, Unsafe)
4PPPP2P (MHMHL) (Unsafe)

66P
66PPPPP (MHMHM) (Unsafe)
66PPPPK (MHMHH) (Tracking, Unsafe)
66PPPP2P (MHMHL) (Unsafe)
66P6P (MM) (Unsafe)
66P46P (MM) (+GB)

P+K
P+KPPPPP (MMHMHM) (Unsafe)
P+KPPPPK (MMHMHH) (Tracking, Unsafe)
P+KPPPP2P (MMHMHL) (Unsafe)
P+KP6P (MMM) (Unsafe)
P+KP46P (MMM) (+GB)

The Dreaded 10-hit String
P+KPP+KPKPPPP+KP (MMMHHMMMMM) (Unsafe)

Strings, so many strings... The number one thing to fighting Eliot is to not allow him to overwhelm you with his strings. In particular try to familiarize yourself with his 1P, 4P, 66P, and P+K strings because those are the lengthiest ones. Most strings tend to alternate between mid and high strikes. And technically on paper, majority of the strings are unsafe on block, but he'll have to finish the string first, which naturally isn't that often. Take note also that most strings have either a Mid P, Tracking High K, or Low P ender. They're all unsafe if blocked. When on the defensive against Eliot, be patient and look for an opportunity to 2P/2H+K under a high strike. The strikes are linear so you can attempt a JAK if you can anticipate where he may try a free cancel. If he finishes a string, throw punish accordingly. Eliot's only real tracking options involve either High K string enders, 4K or 1PPK, so side step is an option.

Eliot at Mid-Long Range

66P+K = i25/ +4 on block/ Knockback on hit/ 40 dmg (Mid P, +GB)
236K = i27/ +3 on block/ Knockback on hit/ 52 dmg (High K, +GB)
2H+K = i23/ -12 on block/ +1 on hit/ 20 dmg/ (Low K with follow-up)

At range, Eliot is likely to try and get in with either 66P+K or 236K. He may also utilize the sneaky 2H+K low that stuns on hit and has a Mid P follow-up. 9KK or 7K if you anticipate a 2H+K. 66P+K & 236K are a bit of a 50/50 between a Mid P & and a High K. If you block either, Eliot will be at advantage, however his mid & low attacks are a bit on the slow side so you usually can sneak in a 2P or a P if you can anticipate that he may attempt a slower follow-up. 66P+K also pushes back quite a bit too, so you can attempt a backdash as well after that to further the space between you and Eliot. However, by the themselves, both 66P+K & 236K are reactable.

There isn't really an optimal range to fight Eliot at because his strings can be overwhelming in close and his ranged options aren't exactly weak. Christie has an advantage up close, however Eliot's ranged game is better. Overall it would be better to fight Eliot in close range and attempt to keep him from getting his offense started by suppressing him with your faster pokes. Whenever you CH Eliot though, such as with 6PP, you can make him feel the pain from your juggles since he is just a lightweight (whereas Christie is a middleweight) despite being rather slow in neutral. He does have an i9 strike in 7P however, though it doesn't really grant him much advantage, along with pushing you away from him. It's simply a "get-off-me" move for him. 7P does also out-prioritizes Christie's 5P. Note also that Eliot does possess useful parries along with his mid holds effectively being "parries" that can start his offense. Be mindful of how you attempt to suppress Eliot, because his parries & 7P are key tools that he uses to halt the momentum of his adversaries.


Also be careful of 236T & 214T. 236T is an i12 launcher throw and 214T is a 45 dmg, i10 reset throw that grants +10 advantage for Eliot. When Eliot has you locked down, he will try to hit one of these two throws. Make regular use of 2P's, 6P's and 5P's to discourage their use. If he's nailing you with strings, SE the stuns, since his strings in particular are quite vulnerable to being SE'ed then blocked; then try to note when he's trying to throw you.

All things considered, I'd likely say this MU is 5.5-4.5 (5-5 if rounded) in Christie's favour due to her much better neutral poking speed, strong evasive tools, and general ability to get on the offensive first. However, this MU isn't a walk in the park for either character. Eliot's toolset is surprisingly effective at countering Christie's toolset making this MU a lot more even than may be seemed on paper. Basically, don't let Eliot mindfuck you with his strings (remember they usually go mid-high-mid-high, etc.), reset throws, and parries\holds along with being mindful of his 2H+K . But as implied earlier, knowing is half the battle and knowledge is power :cool:! Show this rowdy teenager who's the one in control of the milk supply!
 
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Force_of_Nature

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HumbleTitan
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Any match where the potential for christie to get "out boxed" is a match worth looking at. You do these WAAAY more concisely than I ever could. I appreciate it.
Nah, it's all good. I just put something together to get us a bit familiar with other characters along with seeing how they compare against Christie.

Give it a shot dude! ;)
 
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