The Official Dead or Alive 5 Tier List with Discussion thread

[Scornwell]

But let's get off that for now. What do you guys think about Bass? I think the," i'm just too damn strong" phase has more weight this time. His Bt throw becoming an OH almost made me passout. That change alone makes me feel all warm inside.

The 30pt decrease in the lifebar makes Bass median damage output more frightening than ever. Combine that with more guaranteed launcher combo options and Bass can literally win after guessing around 4 times on the offense, especially with environmental damage.

His BT T becoming an OH isn't too scary as he has trouble initiating his BT game in a way that allows him to land that throw, but it definitely solidified his offensive options. Get ready for the new, big man Lisa.

However, I'm not going to call a tier list placement or discuss matchups until after I see this new SS in action and everyone else's new advantages/disadvantages vs. Bass. He definitely has a top notch offense but the thing that's always been true for Bass is that you have to work uphill to get on that offense. The new SS might shift things in his favor, but we'll just have to wait.

Bass is strong enough to hold his own with that, but it's even more interesting that his pick-up now has 2 additional frames of advantage. Combined with two throws that lead into that guaranteed pick-up, well... at least more fear will be injected for holding.

As a Christie main, funny you mention that. At +13, any of Bass's strikes after a pickup will now beat out any of his opponent's strikes; including Christie and Kasumi's 9i jab .

 

[J.D.E.]

I got plenty of enemies as it is right now. As they say, you can't get along with everyone.

You'll live, as long as you stay away from them.



Bass is strong enough to hold his own with that, but it's even more interesting that his pick-up now has 2 additional frames of advantage. Combined with two throws that lead into that guaranteed pick-up, well... at least more fear will be injected for holding.

Who said I was making him an enemy? All I was saying to him & DR2K & other people was bring up facts when debating tiers & not opinions or theories. Plus he commented on a character that I happened to play who's nerf is over exaggerated.

Don't flip it like that dude. Let's slow our roll...I jump the gun you're right not gonna lie. So let me just study I don't need to make enemies my bad dude. Btrw..I never said Kokoro is a fraud....that's pushing it. I thiI bet even with all the nerfs this will turn into another Helena situation you know? Where everypony said she wasn't good and then come DID8, NEC, and we were all looking crazy myself included.

But let's get off that for now. What do you guys think about Bass? I think the," i'm just too damn strong" phase has more weight this time. His Bt throw becoming an OH almost made me passout. That change alone makes me feel all warm inside.

Yeah Bass will be better. The nerf of the health bar was a big big bonus for him. But I'm not starting up any matchups or figuring until after I know what the patch does

 

[Awesmic]

As a Christie main, funny you mention that. At +13, any of Bass's strikes after a pickup will now beat out any of his opponent's strikes; including Christie and Kasumi's 9i jab .

I'm not worried, given the buffed sidestep and knowing your tracking options. =3

 

[Jefffcore]

So Jeffcore, how do you feel about the Hitomi/Mila matchup now after the former has been buffed and the latter nerfed a bit?
How about Hitomi's tier placement? High end of mid tier?

Mila can still crush everything with 3H+K, so it's more or less the same. Mila just can't loop her tackle as easily now.

 

[P1naatt1ke1tt0]

Mila can still crush everything with 3H+K, so it's more or less the same. Mila just can't loop her tackle as easily now.

Except that Hitomi's throws and some punches got a damage buff, and with 270 life she'll do some serious damage. But, I'm no expert, so I won't argue with you. We'll just have to see how it turns out.

 

[Jefffcore]

Her throw only got 5 damage. Mila's 6T is still better, and so is her damage.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

Just ran a few tests on Helena's sit down stuns and what I found is actually worse than I thought it was.

214P +13 Only guarantees an in string mid punch.
22/88P +15 Only guarantees 3P.
3PPP +15 Only guarantees 3P.
6PP +15 Only guarantees 3P.
BT 7P +13 Guarantees absolutely nothing.
44PPP + 23 This string would be good if it didn't begin with a 17 frame high and had to hit with no other stuns at all. There is a low mix up with the sit down stun at the end but seeing as it doesn't stun there is no incentive to try and block it.

The fact that her only good sit down stun is almost impossible to land and all her other stuns only allow her a quick mid poke is so stupid. Not to mention she has a sit down stun that doesn't even guarantee any type of follow up attack.

I cannot see how a character who has such worthless guaranteed set ups can be considered so strong. With all the new sit down/feint stuns being added to so many characters there is no way Helena will still be able to compete solely with her pseudo force tech nonsense, especially seeing as her lows are going to be even less threatening with the massive buff to low blocking.

 

[DR2K]

Helena doesn't need guaranteed set ups. She just gets a shit ton of frame advanatge on all knockdowns. Now that health is lower her damage output is even more lethal. She's also much more safer, had less knock backs moves on wall, and has another CB burst from BKO.

 

[Jefffcore]

What happens when you can't get a force tech?

 

[DR2K]

What happens when you can't get a force tech?

Then you pick another character who you can be efficient with and hit the training room until you can land a simple launcher.

 

[Scornwell]

I'm not worried, given the buffed sidestep and knowing your tracking options. =3

I wouldn't be too worried either. Christie and Kasumi will always have a natural average frame advantage vs. Bass that he has to work around. It's nice to see a fair buff getting thrown his way that also includes the two femme fatales.

What's your thoughts on the Christie buffs Awesie?

 

[Awesmic]

I wouldn't be too worried either. Christie and Kasumi will always have a natural average frame advantage vs. Bass that he has to work around. It's nice to see a fair buff getting thrown his way that also includes the two femme fatales.

What's your thoughts on the Christie buffs Awesie?

I'm not allowed to express them. Might rub certain people the wrong way.

 

[Dr. Teeth]

I'm not allowed to express them. Might rub certain people the wrong way.

THIS is the stuff that rubs certain people the wrong way. Dude asked for your opinion. Why do you have to stiff him like that? I'm not trying to be mean or anything. I'm genuinely curious.

 

[Awesmic]

THIS is the stuff that rubs certain people the wrong way. Dude asked for your opinion. Why do you have to stiff him like that? I'm not trying to be mean or anything. I'm genuinely curious.

You saw the reactions toward the changes for characters in the patch when no one as yet has actually played the game post-patch. It's too dad-gummed hostile, and I'm not getting myself too caught up in that. I rather just keep my thoughts to myself and actually try the stuff out before I wind up with my tail between my legs.

 

[DR2K]

You saw the reactions toward the changes for characters in the patch when no one as yet has actually played the game post-patch. It's too dad-gummed hostile, and I'm not getting myself too caught up in that. I rather just keep my thoughts to myself and actually try the stuff out before I wind up with my tail between my legs.

Regardless of that your opinion about Christie's tools is especially signifigant since you're one of the better Chrstie players out there.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

Helena doesn't need guaranteed set ups. She just gets a shit ton of frame advanatge on all knockdowns. Now that health is lower her damage output is even more lethal. She's also much more safer, had less knock backs moves on wall, and has another CB burst from BKO.

Having a CB from BKO doesn't make her better, she never had any problem cancelling out of BKO in time to land 7P.
Lower health and sit down stuns not interacting with walls doesn't buff her as it is universal throughout the cast.
Getting 4 non grappler safe moves back doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

Every character should have viable sit down stuns, seriously having a sit down stun that doesn't even guarantee an attack? What the fuck is that about?

Lastly +4 is not a shit ton of frame advantage, she needs to dash forward to grab after force tech with nullifies her frame advantage meaning if people are ready they can smack her out of it easily. Her best tool for catching people after force tech is 2K but with the low blocking being more viable this will be less useful.

Her existing tools needed slight improvements to help her compete seeing as most characters got major buff's and the tweaks to the game mechanics have hurt her offensive capabilities.

Why even give her sit down stuns if they are this bad? Guaranteed damage will always beat guessing games. With almost every character being able to guarantee more damage more often with this patch Helena will drop. Honestly I still think people need more experience fighting her, I have no problems dealing with her force tech at all so there is no reason other people can't get past it.

 

[DR2K]

Having a CB from BKO doesn't make her better, she never had any problem cancelling out of BKO in time to land 7P.
Lower health and sit down stuns not interacting with walls doesn't buff her as it is universal throughout the cast.
Getting 4 non grappler safe moves back doesn't make a whole lot of difference.

Every character should have viable sit down stuns, seriously having a sit down stun that doesn't even guarantee an attack? What the fuck is that about?

Lastly +4 is not a shit ton of frame advantage, she needs to dash forward to grab after force tech with nullifies her frame advantage meaning if people are ready they can smack her out of it easily. Her best tool for catching people after force tech is 2K but with the low blocking being more viable this will be less useful.

Her existing tools needed slight improvements to help her compete seeing as most characters got major buff's and the tweaks to the game mechanics have hurt her offensive capabilities.

Why even give her sit down stuns if they are this bad? Guaranteed damage will always beat guessing games. With almost every character being able to guarantee more damage more often with this patch Helena will drop. Honestly I still think people need more experience fighting her, I have no problems dealing with her force tech at all so there is no reason other people can't get past it.

Now she doesn't need to get out of stance to CB. Which makes it harder to telegraph her. The fact that she won't have to make as many guesses in order to win is a buff to lower damage characters as well.

Every character doesn't need to play sitdown > guarantee. Helena has the best ground game in the roster, no character gets anywhere near as much from it. She can get +4 to +20ish. Welcome to character diversity, some characters are going to excel in other areas. If you don't like a heavily guess based character then there are plenty of other characters to choose from.

Helena is one the most commonly picked characters, because she's one of the best. People don't lack experience against her, she's just a solid character with a unique set of toosl that forces players to approach matches differently.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

I just thought about the fact that Helena's sit down stuns won't interact with the wall any more which means she is going to lose substantial wall damage.
1.02 > 6PP & 3PPP make the opponent hit the wall offering a free wall combo.
1.03 > 6PP & 3PPP will cause a sit down stun at the wall where only 3P will connect and 3P knocks them down as it crosses the stun threshold.

Correct me if I am wrong but it looks like Helena just lost guaranteed damage on the walls.

 

[DR2K]

She loses 10 points of wall damage and gains the ability to cointinue a string. One of my biggest complaints about DOA5 was that walls were actually impeding damage when other fighting games reward the attacker. This has been universally adjusted for almost every character so they can do more damage.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

She loses 10 points of wall damage and gains the ability to cointinue a string. One of my biggest complaints about DOA5 was that walls were actually impeding damage when other fighting games reward the attacker. This has been universally adjusted for almost every character so they can do more damage.

How can she do more damage? The ONLY attack she can land due to how little frames she gets is 3P which as I said crosses the stun threshold and knocks down. She can't continue anything after that, and she can't land 236PKP or 66KPP when they hit the wall either so she loses a lot more than 10 points of damage.