The Official Dead or Alive 5 Tier List with Discussion thread

[DR2K]

How can she do more damage? The ONLY attack she can land due to how little frames she gets is 3P which as I said crosses the stun threshold and knocks down. She can't continue anything after that, and she can't land 236PKP or 66KPP when they hit the wall either so she loses a lot more than 10 points of damage.

Add the string damage you would get that you normally wouldn't. So sitdown stun, launcher into wall spalt, + wall combo

3ppp, 9k, wall splat, wall combo

3ppp, 7k, wall spalt, wall combo

vs

3ppp, wall splat, wall combo

It's a damage boost.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

Add the string damage you would get that you normally wouldn't. So sitdown stun, launcher into wall spalt, + wall combo

3ppp, 9k, wall splat, wall combo

3ppp, 7k, wall spalt, wall combo

vs

3ppp, wall splat, wall combo

It's a damage boost.

3PPP does not guarantee 9K or 7K only 3P. 9K is one frame too slow and 7K is 2 frames too slow.

Put the AI on fastest stagger, reaction block all, set counter hit on and do 3PPP, the AI will block anything that isn't 3P.

 

[DR2K]

I have yet to see anyone shake out of 9k, not once have I ever been countered or block out of it.

Just because the AI can do it, doesn't mean a human can.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

I have yet to see anyone shake out of 9k, not once have I ever been countered or block out of it.

Just because the AI can do it, doesn't mean a human can.

I've had people shake it, I initially thought 9K was guaranteed then someone shook it and blocked it. That's when I found only 3P is guaranteed. Oh and people have said that fastest stagger isn't the fastest possible either. Humans can slow escape faster than that.

Regardless Helena just lost guaranteed wall damage, thanks TN!

 

[Matt Ponton]

Oh and people have said that fastest stagger isn't the fastest possible either. Humans can slow escape faster than that.

They can say that, but they'd be wrong.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

They can say that, but they'd be wrong.

I can't remember who but someone was talking about a guaranteed set up that they SE out of but the AI on fastest couldn't. I don't remember who though, I remember it was said by someone who was pretty credible but the name escapes me.

 

[Zeo]

It was probably the lag/delay that SE'd out of the setup, not the player.

 

[Batcommander]

I can't remember who but someone was talking about a guaranteed set up that they SE out of but the AI on fastest couldn't. I don't remember who though, I remember it was said by someone who was pretty credible but the name escapes me.

It was Raansu. He proved you could SE gen fu's 33p setup, but it is very difficult.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

It was Raansu. He proved you could SE gen fu's 33p setup, but it is very difficult.

That was most likely it. Either way wall blow back removal is a nerf for Helena not a buff. I wonder if Team Ninja realised that or not. Seeing as she has a sit down stun doesn't guarantee anything at all I'm guessing they are just idiots.

 

[DR2K]

That was most likely it. Either way wall blow back removal is a nerf for Helena not a buff. I wonder if Team Ninja realised that or not. Seeing as she has a sit down stun doesn't guarantee anything at all I'm guessing they are just idiots.

It was a huge buff in damage for every character.

 

[Jefffcore]

Helena can't pseudo anymore.

 

[KwonJigglypuff]

Well... Poor Helena and Eliot then.

 

[P1naatt1ke1tt0]

They can say that, but they'd be wrong.

No, I have tested this with that particular GenFu setup. Humans can shake off 9 frames, computer does -8 frames on fastest. It is very hard, you have to get VERY VERY many inputs in the stun to achieve 9 frames, but it's possible. I could get -9 frames only like 1/20 times or so.

 

[shunwong]

No, I have tested this with that particular GenFu setup. Humans can shake off 9 frames, computer does -8 frames on fastest. It is very hard, you have to get VERY VERY many inputs in the stun to achieve 9 frames, but it's possible. I could get -9 frames only like 1/20 times or so.

I have seen it scaped in actual offline matches. It happens once in a blue moon but it is possible

 

[P1naatt1ke1tt0]

I have seen it scaped in actual offline matches. It happens once in a blue moon but it is possible

Good to know it actually can work in a match. I thought it was just a "scientific curiosity". I REALLY need to learn to SE now. I'm in a bad habit of not even trying to SE sitdowns that are easily escapable.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

Helena can't pseudo anymore.

Please explain.

 

[Matt Ponton]

I have seen it scaped in actual offline matches. It happens once in a blue moon but it is possible

I imagine it's a matter of the hit frame and which one connects.

 

[MasterHavik]

Still working on a few things...but here is a little thing I found with Zack...well two things...if you block SS K and block H+K Zack is left at +4. Also....I think he does more damage now for some odd reason...I mean my old max with Zack without a wall was 124...now he can 134(not sure if this is his max or not) without a wall now. Btw...134 dmg I found was on CH.

 

[Omegan Eckhart]

I have yet to see anyone shake out of 9k, not once have I ever been countered or block out of it.

Just because the AI can do it, doesn't mean a human can.

Okay just tested it now I'm back at my Xbox.

If you begin slow escaping after Helena hits you with the first P from her 3PPP string you can block 9K. It's not even hard to do, either the people you play against don't slow escape of they don't know when to.

Personally I always begin slow escaping after the hit critical hit and only stop and counter if I feel I really need to.

When Helena's sit down stuns interacted with the walls she could get 126 points of damage GUARANTEED after 3PPP hit, now she can only guarantee 58 points of damage.

I'm sorry but this isn't disputable, this patch just took 66 points of guaranteed damage from Helena. It's a stone hard fact. Go to the lab and try it out if you don't believe me. I'd love to be proven wrong on this one.

Yo....Omegan to end this debate..why don't you just do it yourself? See if you can get out of it.

I just said I tested it and was able to get out of the set up. Am I misunderstanding you or am I not being very clear?

I went into the lab got the AI to do 3PPP on me on CH and I was able to slow escape and block the 9K follow up as long as I started slow escaping after the first stun hit.

 

[MasterHavik]

Yo....Omegan to end this debate..why don't you just do it yourself? See if you can get out of it.