Because of the patch update, Hayate is a overall better character. Hayate is faster than Eliot, safer, has better tracking tools; Eliot pretty much just has one good tracking move which is f+k. Eliot has tracking from his strings but they're mostly a bunch of highs that Hayate has no problem crushing.
Agreed to an extent, but I wouldn't call Hayate... "safer". I think they're both in the same boat on shit situations with safety, seeing as Eliot does have a good amount of safe pokes as well.
The only thing fast about Hayate is his 6p and 7k. I don't know about you but I don't like being at -30 if I can help it. Eliot's launchers are also faster (choryu and 9k). Other than that 6p is all he's got which can get flushed out by 7p... which also flushes out Hayate's jab lol. They're on par in everything else speed wise.
His best sidestep killers would be his sweeps, 6pk and 4p.
4p is generally pretty slow though. 18 frames (20) just to be in an unsafe situation or mixup situation that would result in a knockdown, but if it so HAPPENS to hit, your opponent better be ready... because if you free cancelled you've got mad options, which I like.
6pk is good for clipping SS but if it gets blocked you end up in a really shitty situation since it's not safe from push back or anything special like that. It's decent at best though.
His sweeps are more unsafe than they were (all -15 when they used to be -11 and -13 but it's not a huge deal... just sucks). The unfortunate part is that they don't trip stun on NH anymore which was part of his old doa4 game that you perhaps know about but i'll get into it later. These are decent but could be better.
Hayate has better sidestep options (Sidestep P puts the opponent in a sit down stun on NH and he also has 8_2p+k)
Well I don't exactly agree completely here.
P+K/SS P may be good on hit but on block it's ridiculously bad. -13 is ridiculous especially when it used to SD stun in DOA4 and it was -8, so personally I don't find it that great cause it's a huge risk but it's by no means useless, don't get that impression from me.
SS K is just a reset, and on hit it's ass. I don't know what drove them to think H+K needs to "launch" on hit at all times but it should have the same stun it used to in DOA4 (turn around stun). Eliot triumphs him here because his high is gives a deep stun to work with on NH and is still generally safe on block.
8P+K doesn't work as well as Christie's JAK, Brad's 4p8, or Helena's SS K, but it's pretty OK... I'd like a low sweep option from it.
better sit down stuns for guaranteed set up's; All of Eliot's sit down stuns can be slow escaped at fastest or fast to avoid being launched. Hayate wins the crushing department.; he has a decent amount of high/low crushes he can choose from, Eliot just has 2f+k for highs, and 6f+k for lows.
Now I just think you're downplaying Eliot a little too much...
First in foremost his SD stuns do need buffs, no questions asked. I feel you bro. H+K still is good for setups though in fact there's a chance for a guaranteed setup, I just wish it was better overall for Eliot, cause he deserves it.
Hayate's guaranteed launchers only come from a double punch SD stun (3pp) and another punch SD stun (214p) that only sd stuns crouching opponents and you have to use the regular follow up to even get the launch, since it guarantees nothing in reality. BT 4p is the same way. P+K is solid though but he needs 3k's sd stun back on crouching opponents, just toned down to only guaranteeing a 8p.
You're definitely missing some crushes though. For high there is 2h+k (3p2k, 6k2k), 3p+k, 8p, BT PP (second punch only) 6k and 7k to some extent.
For low there's 6h+k and h+k.
Test them yourself.
Because Hayate is a mid weight, I'm sure Eliot's BnB combo's could over power him, Eliot also has his high puch/kick sabaki that allows him to attain CB in 2 hits, as well as his i9 punch that's very effective for frame traps because it stuns on CH.
Indeed. In the neutral game this can be deadly for anyone, even the other few 9 frame jabbers.
In addition to his sabaki game you failed to mention Eliot's parries and mid holds. Parries dwindle down the guessing game, which gives him a free 9k. Of course it's a guessing game because 9k isn't a solid NH stun and only gives a minimum of +2 which is still some advantage. 9kk is the other half of that mix-up because you can get the launch and go for a few choryu's into a juggle, but this is what really makes the parries so great. Your opponent holds? 236T for big damage or drive through the stun game for a full combo. But you know this...
His mid holds give him a 50/50 mix-up basically. They try to standing block to turn around? Free 9p. If they play it smarter and try to duck, you can 6P+K into a guaranteed combo just like Lei which can lead to a full juggle. Not bad, not bad at all.
The match up is definitely in Hayate's favor because of his unholdable stuns, and because Eliot is a linear character and also easy to crush/beat him out of his strings. Eliot still has the tools to easily out smart Hayate so I think 6 - 4 is about right.
Eliot might not be the greatest character in the world but I mean lets be seriously honest here, no matter how unsafe he is, he's got more string opportunities than Hayate, which do (I repeat do) have a chance of clipping sidestep since the idea behind the SS is flawed anyway. If his strike just happens to be active on the 21st frame of the opponent's SS he will hit and it will be counter hit and it will be a stun and it will be in his favor. Hayate doesn't get that luxury honestly. You step him and that next hit will be interrupted.
That being said Hayate does come out on top with TRUE sidestep killing options, but they're work to get out and don't grant much on hit (unless it's 4p), and just make him have to deal with the wake up game which we all dread so much. They both fail in comparision to someone like Brad or Hitomi in that area though.
Another point is his parries. Eliot has to guess less on strikes and still gets that free hit mixup which can completely turn the tides depending on how your opponent reacts but you still at least get +2. Of course it's not a dragon gunner, but come on it's there and it's good.
On throws, I'd call them even when it comes to outdoors but Hayate still takes charge on damage indoors (101 dmg NH guaranteed from ceiling splat on Eliot since Eliot is a lightweight, I could show you the combo if you like it's not too big lol).
Eliot probably has better lows... because of his 1k mixups, CH 4pk or BT 2k (which should track), and deep stun from CH pp2p variants, but Hayate has better [tracking] lows (and actually has tracking lows in general LOL) so that's where he pulls it back.
I want to say 6-4 Eliot but I will admit Eliot does have his drawbacks, so 5-5 might be more reasonable. I'll leave it in the eyes of the beholder. We should play sometime by the way, I'm a big fan of your Rig. >.<
On a side note, TN needs to quit fucking around and give Eliot a safe tracking mid kick as 4k since 4k has no kick period. #DOA5_Balance? I think FUCKING so. But that's another topic for another time.
