DOA5U The Official Tier List with Discussion Thread

iHajinShinobi

Well-Known Member
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Then stop posting in the thread and let the rest of us actually discuss the topic at hand.

Anyway, back on topic. Japan placed Hayate as top tier but thinks Leifang is mid as well as Zack and Momiji. Now, I know that there is actually a large influx of Hayate players in Japan. Maybe that's playing a role in their since that character gets played a lot.

Mr.Wah also stated somewhere that he heard that the Japanese players think Hayate's mid/low game is very good. It is, but so is Ayane's, and Kasumi's, Momiji's, Zack's, Helena, Leifang.

When I think of Hayate's lows, I think of PP2K, 4P2K, 66P2K and 2H+K. The most threatening there is 4P2K.
 

Jyakotu

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I was discussing the topic. I said she is not top tier, she is upper mid tier. But given the tools she has and as much as people use this character, I am shocked people have yet to figure her out. She can be easily read and easily blocked and punished. I'm not scared of this matchup nor do I fear any matchup when I use her, aside from the even matchup of Gen Fu and Christie, which even then, it's only SLIGHTLY in their favor. But top tier? I don't believe so. Top 10, I can agree on that, but nowhere in Top 5 imho.
 

Brute

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I'm tired of people thinking Ayane is top tier.

Upper mid at best, but not top tier.

There are still some flaws in the character that can be fixed. I don't think she's top.

Sorry, I won't call my main top tier. Upper mid tier is what I'm sticking with.

I don't care who says anything, top player or not, I will not place Ayane top tier. Top 10, yes. But Top 5? No. I never said my main wasn't a good character, I just don't think she's top tier.

I'll still stand by my opinion, Idgaf what anyone has to say at this point. I'm winning with my main and have loved this character since DOA1.

You type so much without saying anything at all.
If that were a legitimate opinion (it isn't), you'd at least try to back it up with supporting evidence by now. Why haven't you? Because you're not trying to contribute to community knowledge of characters tools. You're trying to get attention because no one comments on your profile statuses anymore since they all dropped you on their ignore lists.

I'm not excited about you hijacking the thread to make it about yourself, and I doubt anyone else is, either. It's off-topic, inane and useless.
As such, you will cut this out immediately, or I will cut you out.
 

Jyakotu

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Overall, what is the difference between Japanese, American and European players?
Japanese players tend to be more technical and utilize oki and force tech setups more. American players are geared more towards max damage combos, which is why you'll see a lot of the same setups that go for optimial or max damage. Can't say for European players tbh, I haven't seen many European DOA players in action enough.
 

iHajinShinobi

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Japanese players tend to be more technical and utilize oki and force tech setups more. American players are geared more towards make damage combos, which is why you'll see a lot of the same setups that go for optimial or max damage.

Incorrect, both the U.S. and Japanese have technically thorough players while also boasting some character specialists. The U.S. has Master, Kwiggles, Sweet Revenge, Xcalibur Bladez, Emann, Hoodless, Jaegar, Requiem, myself, Mr.Wah, Rikuto for example as some of the best technical players in the game with our main characters. While Japan has around the same number or maybe a bit more. Both sides know the game on a technical level for some, know what's optimal and sub-optimal and have very good fundamentals, and have practically masterful control over who we main.

And you aren't contributing to anything. Look at everything Brute quoted. What exactly is that contributing to?
 

Jyakotu

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Standard Donor
Incorrect, both the U.S. and Japanese have technically thorough players while also boasting some character specialists. The U.S. has Master, Kwiggles, Sweet Revenge, Xcalibur Bladez, Emann, Hoodless, Jaegar, Requiem, myself, Mr.Wah, Rikuto for example as some of the best technical players in the game with our main characters. While Japan has around the same number or maybe a bit more. Both sides know the game on a technical level for some, know what's optimal and sub-optimal and have very good fundamentals practically masterful control over who we main.

And you aren't contributing to anything. Look at everything Brute quoted. What exactly is that contributing to?
This is just what I've seen. I never started my post as fact. Yet, most American players I know rely more on max damage combos, including yourself and the ones you listed.
 

Tempest

Well-Known Member
Then stop posting in the thread and let the rest of us actually discuss the topic at hand.

Anyway, back on topic. Japan placed Hayate as top tier but thinks Leifang is mid as well as Zack and Momiji. Now, I know that there is actually a large influx of Hayate players in Japan. Maybe that's playing a role in their since that character gets played a lot.

Mr.Wah also stated somewhere that he heard that the Japanese players think Hayate's mid/low game is very good. It is, but so is Ayane's, and Kasumi's, Momiji's, Zack's, Helena, Leifang.

When I think of Hayate's lows, I think of PP2K, 4P2K, 66P2K and 2H+K. The most threatening there is 4P2K.
When I think of Momiji I don't really think of a low game. I don't agree with her tier placement though, her neutral game is very strong and I don't really see how Hayate is beating her in that area beyond his superior crushes. Hayate is a solid character but he doesn't belong in top 5 with Gen Fu and Ayane in my opinion.

I'm really confused by stuff like Pai being all the way down in C+ tier with Elliot, and Marie Rose being all the way down there. Alpha is certainly not the worst character in the game. Just a really weird list overall.
 

iHajinShinobi

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No, we rely on punishment and the maximum punishment out of most and every situation we can. Just like any other top player in their game will do, which is what you're supposed to do. Top players regardless of their residing nation does the same thing. Doing max damage combos is to always overextend for Critical Burst.

@Tempest Momiji's lows are actually very annoying when utilized correctly. 2H+K is her best poke, 1P also doesn't let you move forward for free either because it's a mid/low mix up and the low reaches very far. 2K is also a threat, especially on a slippery surface and it guarantees an 8P on counter hit.
 
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SilverForte

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Is honoka really that bad? I know her range isnt very good but her overall moveset seems decent, her wall game especially.
 

iHajinShinobi

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I can't really say for sure if Honoka really is that bad. But it is indeed true that she struggles a lot when she's not near you because the tools she has that are generally good for their original characters, are decent for her since her limbs are really short. She has work very hard to get in and also has to work very hard to stay in. One mistake means she has to start all over again, every time.
 

Tempest

Well-Known Member
No, we rely on punishment and the maximum punishment out of most and every situation we can. Just like any other top player in their game will do, which is what you're supposed to do. Top players regardless of their residing nation does the same thing. Doing max damage combos is to always overextend for Critical Burst.

@Tempest Momiji's lows are actually very annoying when utilized correctly. 2H+K is her best poke, 1P also doesn't let you move forward for free either because it's a mid/low mix up and the low reaches very far. 2K is also a threat, especially on a slippery surface and it guarantees an 8P on counter hit.
Oh I'm very aware, I'm just saying that her only string mid/low mixup is coming off of 1p and to be honest it just isn't as scary as what other characters are capable of. Up close you just need to watch for that one move, whereas against characters like Kasumi you need to be constantly paying attention since they have multiple lows to look for.

Honoka isn't amazing, but to put her lower than Elliot when she's still sporting a i9 jab and i11 mid is pushing it a little for me. Her neutral is lacking but it's not like she has no options. Marie Rose definitely does not belong down there with Nyo when she's packing lots of safety and has arguably the best special movement option in the game. Nyo lags behind most of the cast, but she still has very solid spacing tools, and her damage potential makes me want to put her at the very least in the same tier as Elliot and Ein. Her 6T is very solid and against slower characters she can create a vortex like situation with her 6P+K.
 

iHajinShinobi

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Momiji has a i12 2P low jab to worry about since she can use it to open you up and make you press buttons. 1P isn't much during the neutral game unless at range. However in threshold that's a different story.
 

Jyakotu

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Is honoka really that bad? I know her range isnt very good but her overall moveset seems decent, her wall game especially.
Honoka, imho, should be placed C tier at best. I think her biggest disadvantage really is just her range, because she has to work hard to get in and stay in. But once you're close to your opponent, the mix up and stun-launch game with her is insane. Most of her damage comes from lengthy juggle combos. The problem with DOA combo enders is that they blow opponents all the way across the stage, meaning that a Honoka player must be on constant alert to stay in for CQC. Personally, I love the character, but it does take a lot to win with Honoka, especially against characters who can keep her out.
 

XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
And I think Leon should be A tier because with single strikes he can net equal damage to the stun game up to and sometimes including CB and his only disadvantages are that his fastest mids (plural) are i13 and he has to charge 44 frames to get +12-14 on GB and i35 for an Unblockable where some characters get over +16 for less (+23 in Ein's case but he has to charge to i48) and everybody gets +14-16 with PB. Not to mention that he can be thrown while charging (which is all kinds of bullshit).
Don't quote me, don't mention me, I don't want to have to visit this thread unless I'm bored. If you can't get what I'm getting at ask someone who understands my mentality. I'm unfollowing this thread because when I come back from work and see 2 extra pages of three guys going back and forth over why Ayane is or is not top tier without remembering that that is the opinion of top Japanese players. When I occasionally go into select subforums I come across this way too often, we have our ideas, they have theirs. Leave it at that and let's get back to our ideas.
 

Lulu

Well-Known Member
Leon's :[p+k]::5::H+P::H+P:
Does 109+ Points of Damage..... and that only requires one initial hit.... it takes me an entire Critical Burst Combo to do the same with Jacky which can be broken.... and his combos are hard as well.... ofcourse difficult is not a tier list factor.
 
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XZero264

FSD | Nichol
Premium Donor
Leon's :[p+k]::5::H+P::H+P:
Does 109+ Points of Damage..... and that only requires one initial hit.... it takes me an entire Critical Burst Combo to do the same with Jacky which can be broken.... and his combos are hard as well.... ofcourse difficult is not a tier list factor.
Something about "Don't quote me" you don't understand? Leaving this at that.
 

DestructionBomb

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Standard Donor
Been watching previous NicoNico videos of the JPN tournaments and A-cho videos on youtube and there are huge amount of Hayate players over there it seems. Perhaps some of the talented players over there just happen to pick and like Hayate, who knows really. I am rather curious as to why Pai, Nyotengu, Marie Rose, Alpha or even Jacky to be that low. If anything, I am starting to think they just don't have the players using those characters.

My bad.... what about tagging ? @XZero264

I think he means neither.

Well he did direct the game..... maybe he knows something we don't.....

Yes. We just figured out that Shimbori doesn't play the game much.

Japanese players use Arcade Sticks right ? That might be making them play differently....
Well he did direct the game..... maybe he knows something we don't.....

I don't think the type of controller you use (In DOA standards) should matter....well, it shouldn't in the general case for this game.

He labeled Akira as a (S+) while everybody under that an S. However, I truly believe most of that theory with Akira being the best character in the game along with Hayabusa, Leifang, Kasumi, Bayman, Ayane and Hayate right under Akira were likely based on gathered up table talk from the devs sitting down together or generated from a computer. In other words, paper fighter. Outcomes that should happen on paper but we, as human beings are obviously much more smarter than that, oh yes.

When it comes to things on paper, the super duper development team expects the Akira player to counter/parry/guard break/throw everything you see perfectly, they expect you to just run up and parry to obviously get it right because derp, paper. They expect the person using Akira to shoot out a palm or pop a shoulder in between a 4-attack string while avoiding the moves using the universal SS and perform it on the 3rd strike that is ridiculously risky and ballsy to just throw that move in there, but obviously we have super humans in this world. I personally am not a big a fan of paper fighter theory and logic because some of that stuff does not actually happen within matches. Maybe what he said about Akira could very well be true on being a supreme character, but none of that even matters when things don't exactly go into plan from what the paper states. So unless you are dealing with an actual mind reader (Which no such person exists) who always has precise inputs (hard to believe), there is really nothing to worry about or even believing it. The control of the matches change, players having the life lead, pressure etc etc. Does paper mention any of that? doubt it because the computer making a paper tier list is an unemotional device or Shimbori was just trolling so that people can stop asking him questions. Not to mention that characters like Leifang, Ayane and Christie can take advantage of this because Akira has to be forced to perform certain inputs just to do it, so it all adds up to what particularly happens within the match, same thing with Hayabusa, it seems Hayabusa was having a field day and Izuna holding everybody or extreme throw reads from him. So far, this is the community version of the top 20 players in Japan so I rather take the community version by Japan more serious than the one generated by the devs or some silly computer.

Anyways, don't want to go off topic but seriously, I am curious about Pai, Nyotengu, Marie Rose, Jacky and Alpha being down there.
 
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Lulu

Well-Known Member
@DestructionBomb
Awe.... and just when it was starting to get interesting..... Anyway, Sirlin said the same thing.... the community knows the Tier List better.

But I gotta admit.... Akira's Guard Break has to be a force to be reckoned with. You'd think that would get him alil higher..... atleast I would place alil higher. Hayate is definitely a weird one, it might be because of the awesome combination between his :P+K: and his wind dash.... I think he gets alot out of that type of Bound.
 
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