DOA5U The Official Tier List with Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Crext
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Tempest
Well-Known Member
Lots of oki and environment tech they probably don't use.
I was actually in a similar boat at one point and thought that Ayane was missing something that would lead to keeping her out of top. But I discovered how to work around it and naturally discovered how beast Ayane really is.
And to put things in perspective, most people don't think their mains are top tier or even high tier. I always downplayed Jacky in VF5FS for instance lol, but yeah, 200+ damage wall combos, herp derp.
Well an interesting thing about DOA5LR is that the difference between "S" tier and "D" tier is actually really small. For instance 7-3 matches are incredibly rare in the game. In other words, even the characters considered near the bottom are definitely workable. Compare this with 2D fighters, which tend to have horrendous balance.LoL I don't think anybody is ever going to agree about where anybody is in the tielist..... the game seems far to nuanced to allow for accurate placement.
This aint Street Fighter, son !!!
Lulu
Well-Known Member
First of all, every character in the game has some flaws. There are no flawless characters in the game, so your logic is already flawed (see what I did there?)
Secondly, you don't know much about the character you deem "your purple-haired queen" other than she has great spacing capability and her titties are big. So allow me to shed a bit of light on this character for you.
Ayane has a move that always forces an auto-guess situation on hit and on block, that is her jab from front turn stance. It forces you to guess simply because it leaves her in back turned stance. You have no literal way of telling whether she will delay jab into PP or P4P, or free cancel into back turned stance. You are not reacting to these things, you are guessing. PP is also tracking and a natural combo on neutral and counter. P4P is also a natural combo on counter hit that leaves her into back turned stance at +0. Giving her immediate access to her options out of back turned stance at neutral start up along with a mid that can frame trap on block. While BT PK can also hit as a natural combo on counter hit or can lead into BT PKK for critical stun into a 50/50 mix up.
She has one of the fastest low jabs in the game at i12 frames and it also has the best range out of every i12 low jab in the game. Making it a good low poke even during footsies. +4 on counter hit allow her range pokes to come into play, +9 counter hit on slippery surfaces turn 3H+K into i10 frame jab.
Her jab is +3 on counter hit, turning her neutral game into a nightmare against the entire cast. As a matter of fact, when she jabs her hurtbox moves away from the opponent character while her jab extends her hitbox forward. This means that in situations where i10 frame jabs will trade, if they jab again after the trade, she will win the second jab trade no matter what. A trade in jab will always favor Ayane. To further this, if Kasumi or Phase 4 blocks BT6K from Ayane and both jab, Kasumi and Phase will not win, they will trade in jab with Ayane and then she is in an advantageous situation. If no one believes me, go into training mode. Akira's jab is +5 on counter hit.
Choose any i10 frame jab character, set the dummy's Com Reaction to Strike high (jab). Do 2P as Ayane then jab so both characters trade, then jab again and see what happens.
There, I just gave a small bit of information that explains why this character's neutral is very good. Didn't even need to explain the fact that 6P can crush jabs or go into detail about her crushes because they are self-explanatory.
Ayane also has some of the best lows compared to most of the cast, including the other ninjas, with Kasumi, Momiji and Hayate right behind her in that department. Her 2H+K and every string she has with 2H+K in it are all generally strong as frustration tools. There is a good reason why the advantage on 2H+K went from +23 to +18 in threshold. If that +23 stayed as it did in Vanilla along with 3P's delay into follow ups. Then....well all I'll say is everyone playing me better find a religion and pray to it's figure.
BT3 moving this character forward with the threat of a far reaching low forces you to block low and also forces you stop moving and think about how to deal with it. BT3K is one of the best lows that leads into the silliest of must-hold mix ups in the game. You don't hold after BT3K hits, you eat the whole string for 50-60+ that can wall slam and increase the damage potential and give her oki. And you can just as easily be baited into a low hold and get low thrown for 93 on hi counter. BT3K is also a great poke because, again, you have to block it low.
1P+K and BT3 spins do not let you approach this character for free. Neither spin also give any kind of visual hints that she'll do anything out of them either, which makes it difficult to approach her. I'm not even going to go into detail about her range, footsie and spacing game because I will be here all night going into detail taking up at least two pages with walls of text.
The next thing I will say is that when this character knocks you down, you are in trouble. Her okizeme is phenomenal both midscreen and at the wall, especially at the wall. As a matter of fact, some of her moves are designed to push you at the wall so her wall game can get started. Mix ups into wall oki with 4 different unholdables that include a mid/low unholdable mix up when you tech off the ground. Mix ups into frame traps that include fully blown tracking.
Every time this character puts you in critical stun threshold, you are about to deal with 50/50 mix ups. They are 50/50 mix ups because she has a ton of strings and single strikes that will launch or leave you guessing at least 3 options every time. 6P3 in threshold forces you to guess at 4 options every single time it hits in threshold because of the follow ups to 6P and 6P3, for example. P+KP/BTP+KP has two enders you cannot react to at all while P+KP/BTP+KP is a natural combo in threshold. P+KP7K and P+KPP are amazing in threshold, P+KP7K does quick damage and gives Ayane good oki midscreen beyond +50 advantage if you tech up. P+KPP puts you into a very deep stun and forces you to guess the next situation.
P+KP1/P+KP3 also becomes a strong mix up and I didn't even bring up how good P+KPK, P+KP2K and P+KPKH actually are.
This is also minimal information about how strong this character's mix up and stun launch mix up actually is. Ayane's holds also all interact well with the environment. While low holding low punches on a ceiling stage will guarantee a power blow, same for advance holding a mid kick. As a matter of fact, advance holding a mid kick on counter and especially hi counter hold will dish out critical burst damage, without using critical burst.
BT 6H+K and any move that can utilize it in string make this a deadly move in threshold, especially with a ceiling involved to rack up additional damage. And it can also rack up even more damage if the floor is broken and the opponent falls through it. So a situation that is normally 53 easily turns into 73 damage, without even launching the opponent for a juggle. That is very strong. 214T connecting into a wall will give Ayane okizeme+frame trap if you tech up.
Ayane has about 4 moves that launch on neutral hit and all of them can whiff punsih. With 8K being fast at i14 frames for a neutral hit launcher that's also a hi crush? C'mon now, look at your apparent character, dude.
This is very basic run down of Ayane, this isn't even me actually going in-depth about much of anything. This character is amazing, absolutely amazing while also boasting a very steep learning curve and is one of the most difficult characters to play at a high level because she's so technical. But also very rewarding and can literally fight every character well in the game.
You think Ayane isn't a top tier because you don't know the character. It's as simple as that.
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^ x10
Hell, Ayane can fuck up opponents with her jabs & 2P, and that doesn't even have to be in close range. Yet, for some reason I never feel like a scumbag whenever I use her. Go figure? But yeah, I guess we've been overdo for a Hajin Novel lol.
Pictured Mind
Well-Known Member
I think at this point in time pretty much everyone knows that Ayane is a really good character. I think she's top 3 personally. I still don't have a lot of experience with her tho, so maybe I'll think she's even better later on, kinda like how I thought about Helena.
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So can I get a list or a description of how this tier list works? I'm hoping they were just voting for their favorite characters, but I see Genfu pretty high up, and he's not a ninja.
Lulu
Well-Known Member
Appearently the best players play a bunch of games with the characters trying to exploit the living hell out every situation...... then they come to a decision about how good those characters are.....
Atleast thats what I heard.
So Jyakotu holds a silly opinion, again, and feels the need to share it publicly, again, multiple times without even attempting to back it up with any supporting evidence each time.
God forbid we don't acknowledge what an idiosyncratic snowflake he is. Obviously not trolling for attention.
They seem to value gap-control (distinct from spacing) and stuns more than the neutral game, which is the exact opposite of what American players tend to prioritize.
God forbid we don't acknowledge what an idiosyncratic snowflake he is. Obviously not trolling for attention.
Shimbori thinks he's like the second best character in the game or whatever after Akira.
They seem to value gap-control (distinct from spacing) and stuns more than the neutral game, which is the exact opposite of what American players tend to prioritize.
Unfortunately your opinion is yours alone and not a fact. What I stated are facts and a lot of people can even clearly see that this character is very strong (and have seen this since DOA5 Vanilla). Your inability to actually give any detail to back up your opinion also states this.
So, I mean really, we don't care what you say either, lol.
So, I mean really, we don't care what you say either, lol.
KwonJigglypuff
Well-Known Member
Overall, what is the difference between Japanese, American and European players?
Japanese players live in Japan, Americans live in America, and the Europeans live in Europe.
Lulu
Well-Known Member
Well he did direct the game..... maybe he knows something we don't.... Japanese players use Arcade Sticks right ? That might be making them play differently....
LoL... that wasn't very nice.