DOA5U The Official Tier List with Discussion Thread

[synce]

Alpha's matchup against DLC characters:

Marie Rose: 5-5 the side-step can be a problem, but Alpha has enough tracking moves to mash out of it... the weight is really what can make this an even match up. Otherwise I would give it to Alpha.

Phase 4: 4-6 a lot of characters don't struggle with Phase 4, but since Alpha and Phase 4 share a lot of the same frame properties in start ups, it's actually hard for Alpha to open Phase 4 up. If the Phase 4 player has decent knowledge of Alpha, she can evade all of Alpha's OH and good throws and that's always an issue when reflecting over Alpha MU.

Nyo-Tengu: 6-4 Nyo is pretty slow, and Alpha is just too fast for Nyo to keep up. RUSH also comes in handy in this MU. It will eat Nyo alive, even though she can crush highs, Alpha can crush her trying to crush highs. I need to explore this MU even further, but so far Alpha wins hands down.

I don't think P4 has a single positive MU, not even against Alpha. If anyone thinks P4 is good please send me a request on PSN and show me, or just link me to some P4 videos where she's actually beasting at high level because I can't even imagine that.

As for Alpha vs Tengu, Alpha does have the speed but it doesn't mean much in this MU. Tengu gets her max damage ender without any stun games and Alpha will always land face up. At that point it's like trying to stop a train

 

[Intelligent Alpha]

I don't think P4 has a single positive MU, not even against Alpha. If anyone thinks P4 is good please send me a request on PSN and show me, or just link me to some P4 videos where she's actually beasting at high level because I can't even imagine that.

As for Alpha vs Tengu, Alpha does have the speed but it doesn't mean much in this MU. Tengu gets her max damage ender without any stun games and Alpha will always land face up. At that point it's like trying to stop a train

I've landed face down (WUK), but her "pounce" wins! Someone had said to stay off-the-ground against her

 

[Radiance]

Am I the only one still trying to figure out why Eliot is bottom tier, when we all know Phase 4 is worse than Eliot? silliness.

 

[Brute]

Am I the only one still trying to figure out why Eliot is bottom tier, when we all know Phase 4 is worse than Eliot? silliness.

Depending on how many categories are made, multiple characters can be bottom tier.

 

[Radiance]

Depending on how many categories are made, multiple characters can be bottom tier.

Does this mean we shouldn't take the tierlist on FSD seriously? I might as well say Japan's God tier Kokoro tierlist is more legit. I feel like some people here are just throwing characters in tier spots based off what they've seen in tournaments vs what tools the entire cast actually has.

 

[Brute]

Does this mean we shouldn't take the tierlist on FSD seriously?

The tier list is incomplete. Half of MUs haven't even been addressed at all, let alone properly. The chart at the beginning of the thread is updated based on whatever the last person said a specific MU was, not by who made the most detailed, compelling or experienced analysis of a MU.

So yes, that is what I'm saying.

 

[Malfury]

I feel like some people here are just throwing characters in tier spots based off what they've seen in tournaments vs what tools the entire cast actually has.

Tier lists are made from what's seen in the metagame, yes. We don't have Japan's metagame, so their list is legit to them, and our tier list to ours. Until we see Kokoro winning tournaments here and new tech being found, then she is far from being a God for us.

 

[Radiance]

Tier lists are made from what's seen in the metagame, yes. We don't have Japan's metagame, so their list is legit to them, and our tier list to ours. Until we see Kokoro winning tournaments here and new tech being found, then she is far from being a God for us.

I was being sarcastic when I said that FYI. The point was her being God tier is just as much as a joke as Eliot being bottom tier; "Silliness". But I got the memo from Brutes last post. Take the tierlist on here with a grain of salt. DOA5:LR is coming soon anyway.

 

[Malfury]

I was being sarcastic when I said that FYI. The point was her being God tier is just as much as a joke as Eliot being bottom tier; "Silliness". But I got the memo from Brutes last post. Take the tierlist on here with a grain of salt. DOA5:LR is coming soon anyway.

Oh, my bad. Alot of people don't properly know what a tier list is and why they differ from region to region.

 

[UncleKitchener]

From what I saw from Emperor Cow's Eliot, he's much easier to play than Bass and he's actually quite decent. Now, if they swap his weight with Christie, the world would be a better place.

The reason why he's rated so low I think is mainly because people are so concentrated on cheapness and easy wins that they outright ignore the rest of the cast.

 

[Brute]

The reason why he's rated so low I think is mainly because people are so concentrated on cheapness and easy wins that they outright ignore the rest of the cast.

When basically every other character is cheaper and gets easier wins than you, then yes, you will be rated low.
That's how the relative nature of a tier list works.

 

[Matt Ponton]

For those curious, Event Hubs' current list is the following:

S -
A -
B -
C -
D -

Also, the segregation of letter grades has never really been written in stone. As far as I've seen from the Japanese tier lists for games, it's certain amount of match points from the match point neutral total (5 * # of matchups per character). However, I don't know how they determine that range between them, like how many match points before they are deemed "next category".

The way I currently have it is 5 * 31 = 155. So scores between 150-160 = B or 155±5. A & C are 10 points after that, which is ~1/3 of the matchups being advantage/disadvantage. Anything higher/lower than 170 and 140 determine S & D. Eliot is in his category because frankly he's 21 points below the second lowest rated character (Kokoro).

I remember reading on a Japanese fighting game wiki that 8-2 is really where "Character has no chance at winning" starts happening. so 6-4 and 7-3 are still "Has disadvantages but still can win".

 

[Brute]

As far as a community-developed tier lists for this game go, that is probably the least offensive I've seen thus far.

Some curveballs like people somehow mistaking Leon for a clone of Kasumi but overall not horrible.

 

[UncleKitchener]

When basically every other character is cheaper and gets easier wins than you, then yes, you will be rated low.
That's how the relative nature of a tier list works.

Yeah, but people generally ignore a character's general toolsets and damage output for total ease, which is unfair. If tier lists were solely based on tournaments character usage and success, that would be shit because people are still not aware of hold buffering, unholdables and options selects.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Just fun with numbers. I took both our current list and EH's list and put it into another form of Japanese tier list I've seen where it ranks based on total points from neutral in ranks of 10. Where bottom of B is neutral, instead of current way we do it where neutral is middle of B. Point is, from what I've gathered in my experience of the past 10 years in the FGC, ranks are subjective but the ordered list is still the full rank.

Free Step Dodge (Alt. method to categorize)
S -
A -
B -
C -
D -
E -

Event Hubs (Alt. method to categorize)
S -
A -
B -
C -
D -
E -

 

[PMS_Akali]

Kasumi S tier. And Rachel super low on every list. Interesting.

 

[Jyakotu]

It's kind of interesting to see the tier the 3 characters I use most are placed. I already gathered Eliot was considered bottom tier, because he is. There is no way going around it. Brad Wong is just one tier higher, something I agree with. Ayane being top tier is a given, because of her tools.

 

[Pictured Mind]

For those curious, Event Hubs' current list is the following:

S -
A -
B -
C -
D -

Also, the segregation of letter grades has never really been written in stone. As far as I've seen from the Japanese tier lists for games, it's certain amount of match points from the match point neutral total (5 * # of matchups per character). However, I don't know how they determine that range between them, like how many match points before they are deemed "next category".

The way I currently have it is 5 * 31 = 155. So scores between 150-160 = B or 155±5. A & C are 10 points after that, which is ~1/3 of the matchups being advantage/disadvantage. Anything higher/lower than 170 and 140 determine S & D. Eliot is in his category because frankly he's 21 points below the second lowest rated character (Kokoro).

I remember reading on a Japanese fighting game wiki that 8-2 is really where "Character has no chance at winning" starts happening. so 6-4 and 7-3 are still "Has disadvantages but still can win".

I actually think this list isn't bad. Biggest problems I see are Leon being bottom tier and Rachel being C tier. Also, maybe when the Japanese finally share their super-secret-amazing-god-tier Kokoro tech I could place her higher on the list.

That makes me think, do we actually know why Kokoro is considered a top tier character?

 

[Crext]

I must say, I am a bit puzzled over that Rachel would be so low when so many top tier players use her and continue to use her? I don't play her that much, so I can't really comment in details, but if the western high tier community would be the equality of "close to perfect" play, then Rachel got such high representation for a D tier. Last TFC was even Rachel vs Rachel in the grand final. Of course player > tier list any day, but if it really was about increasing their chances, then swapping secondary characters would apply for so many.

I dunno, maybe she is a pocket ace people use because one ain't familiar with her or something.

 

[Pictured Mind]

I must say, I am a bit puzzled over that Rachel would be so low when so many top tier players use her and continue to use her? I don't play her that much, so I can't really comment in details, but if the western high tier community would be the equality of "close to perfect" play, then Rachel got such high representation for a D tier. Last TFC was even Rachel vs Rachel in the grand final. Of course player > tier list any day, but if it really was about increasing their chances, then swapping secondary characters would apply for so many.

I dunno, maybe she is a pocket ace people use because one ain't familiar with her or something.

Because players don't pick characters based on tiers but on how attractive they are (either in looks, playstyle or whatever).

I personally think last year's TFC is kind of a bad example since Lopedo himself said he was just gonna "lame people out" with her and Xcalibur did a much better job with his other characters. Not to mention the tech got a lot better and even more "complex" compared to the basic overpowered stomp spam we had back then.