Throwing an opponent that is in critical stun

[Keylay]

Should we be able to throw an opponent if they are in critical stun? The problem with command throws is that they are unbreakable. If they made normal throws work on opponents in critical stun, then the defender would be able to break them. They could have a 50% damage revision in critical stun just like attacks do so they would do less damage than if you launched the opponent for a juggle but they would be safer. And you would get hi-counter damage if the opponent tried to hold mid or high. It wouldn't work in all situations because some moves put the opponent out of throw range and some critical stuns don't leave the opponent in a standing state. The benefit of this is that it would add a safer option for the attacker. Low holds would still be an issue though.

 

[Berzerk!]

I think the throw system is an interesting thing to discuss. I believe a throw break system should be implemented, but it needs to take into account the fact that throws are important to punishment in DOA.

I don't think you should be able to throw opponents in critical stun because you have other opportunities such as punishing recovering holds or unsafe moves; and blocking opponents of course. These are the purpose of throws in DOA and being able to throw a critical opponent as opposed to risking an attack, would change the risk/reward fundamentals of the system.

Therefore I would put forward that a throw break system in DOA should work exactly as it does in VF5FS, except for when the opponent is in disadvantage. They may even choose to have a simple scale of how much disadvantage is the threshhold for a throw break to become impossible.

 

[Matt Ponton]

I worry that would be too much as it really would just turn to stun > throw.

I will say that if a power blow is a throw then it should an enemy in the critical burst stun. Otherwise, I would be upset if a throw power blow had no way of being guaranteed like attack ones are.

 

[Raansu]

For the most part I think it would mess with the triangle system too much, however, I could see certain elements with grapplers getting throws off hit stuns similar to what VF does like Akira's where after the low kick he goes into a throw.

Now that I think about it, I wonder if Akira has those setups in DoA5. He has several moves that go into a grapple but the stun game is much different in VF.

 

[Matt Ponton]

Tina had two hit throws in DOA3. I believe they only worked on normal hit though sadly. They brought at least one back in the DOA5 e3 build.

 

[Allan Paris]

As the game is now, I wouldn't want that option added. Command throws not being breakable in DOA need to be there. It's the first line of punishment for the game on a couple of levels.

 

[DrDogg]

Right now I think throws are overpowered, so I would not want the option to throw a stunned opponent. It's really hard to play defense when throws are so powerful and unbreakable. Punch~Throw, Punch>Punch~Throw and Run Up~Throw should not be viable strats, but they're ridiculously effective. It's depressing.

 

[virtuaPAI]

With the opponent being able to use a launching attack(hi counter strike/blow) from neutral and from fuzzy guarding to stop a throw attempt, I personally see no problem with the way throws are currently. LMAO, Mr.Wah, remember my ~ Tactics with Tina?

Tina had two hit throws in DOA3. I believe they only worked on normal hit though sadly. They brought at least one back in the DOA5 e3 build.

-I believe one was :Link:, and the other was :Link:, oh and she had :Link:

 

[DrDogg]

With the opponent being able to use a launching attack(hi counter strike/blow) from neutral and from fuzzy guarding to stop a throw attempt, I personally see no problem with the way throws are currently. LMAO, Mr.Wah, remember my ~ Tactics with Tina?

Attacks launch on normal hit, that's not a deterrent. When I block Kasumi's PP, I'm not going to try to "guess" that the opponent is going to go for PP>Throw and try to attack. Just not happening.

Also, fuzzy guard only works when you expect a throw. You can't duck throws on reaction in DOA like you can in other fighting games. The way the throw game works in DOA5, I'd say throws are more powerful than strikes, and that causes people to press buttons instead of trying to play defense. It's extremely frustrating.

 

[virtuaPAI]

Attacks launch on normal hit, that's not a deterrent. When I block Kasumi's PP, I'm not going to try to "guess" that the opponent is going to go for PP>Throw and try to attack. Just not happening.

Also, fuzzy guard only works when you expect a throw. You can't duck throws on reaction in DOA like you can in other fighting games. The way the throw game works in DOA5, I'd say throws are more powerful than strikes, and that causes people to press buttons instead of trying to play defense. It's extremely frustrating.

-I just do not see it. ~ was never a major issue in past Doa games(doa2-3), especially with throw speeds that were faster than that of Doa5. Fuzzy guarding is used specifically when you do not know if your opponent is going to either use a fast mid or a throw. With and ~ fuzzy guard is perfect because it evade both high attacks/throw, while allowing you to stand back up to block mid. Sorwah can attest to how I used to just do ~, ~ or some variant with Tina to the point where it got on his nerves, and he started to look for delays and punished me every time I over used it.

 

[Matt Ponton]

and had to learn to react with a throw break to the damn throw connecting since you wouldn't try doing the command throws.

Then you started doing command throws, that just pissed me off lol.

 

[avi]

any time some one tries to PP grab you they risk being High counter launched for crazy damage.. you can get pp grabbed 2 maybe 3 times in a round and get 1 high counter launch and still do more damage depending on the combo,character,slope, weight, how far you are from a danger zone ect. i say please p grab me so i can make a read and destroy your face.

blocking is crazy in doa, if you don't hit a button it's verry difficult for a character to stun you and get damage.. unless they have some type of low attack that links into a stun or a grab that gives you a free hit you can virtually block forever. guard breaks are good but if you continue to block after your at frame disadvantage there just another move. and the more time some one spends attacking, the more predictable they become and easyer to read and hold .. this is in my opinion is the most aggravating shit about doa.... eventually you have to throw to get your opponent to stop blocking ,leaving you open to getting HCB @_@....., P grabbing is a good way to break your opponents defense and set up frame traps like p grab ~ p 6p ~ pp 2p shit like that. but i don't liek that it's my only option if some one has the life lead and is intent on playing a defensive game not throwing out attacks for me to counter hit or hold. i'l admit the throwing mechanics could use some tweaking in doa5 although i'm not exactly sure what they could do seeing how unique it is.

the only thing i would change about the throws would be increasing there ranges... maybe make it so you kara cancel your normal's into throws increasing there ranges

 

[DrDogg]

any time some one tries to PP grab you they risk being High counter launched for crazy damage.. you can get pp grabbed 2 maybe 3 times in a round and get 1 high counter launch and still do more damage depending on the combo,character,slope, weight, how far you are from a danger zone ect. i say please p grab me so i can make a read and destroy your face.

I don't want to have to guess... or "read" as you like to call it. I don't have to in other fighting games, but I'm forced to in DOA, even with the changes. It's still my main complaint. Fuzzy guard helps, but it's not enough as far as I'm concerned.

guard breaks are good but if you continue to block after your at frame disadvantage there just another move.

This is just straight incorrect. Christie's best attack is a guard break that guarantees her a 6P into a stun. Akira's guard breaks also have guaranteed follow-ups.

 

[Skilletor]

any time some one tries to PP grab you they risk being High counter launched for crazy damage.. you can get pp grabbed 2 maybe 3 times in a round and get 1 high counter launch and still do more damage depending on the combo,character,slope, weight, how far you are from a danger zone ect. i say please p grab me so i can make a read and destroy your face.

This is no different than in VF, SC, Tekken, etc, (without the hi-counter signifier) and yet in all of those games I can escape throws.

People so worried about throws for punishment? Why not make throws inescapable during recovery frames and hi-counter state? I know 2D games do this for recovery frames (don't think other 3D games do), so I don't see why it can't be done in DoA.

That throws are one of the only viable forms of punishment is a huge problem I have with DoA.

 

[Jefffcore]

I don't want to have to guess... or "read" as you like to call it. I don't have to in other fighting games, but I'm forced to in DOA, even with the changes. It's still my main complaint. Fuzzy guard helps, but it's not enough as far as I'm concerned.



This is just straight incorrect. Christie's best attack is a guard break that guarantees her a 6P into a stun. Akira's guard breaks also have guaranteed follow-ups.

You probably shouldn't be playing fighting games then.

Personally it's usually possible just to watch for the break in the string and stick out an attack.

 

[avi]

well i

I don't want to have to guess... or "read" as you like to call it. I don't have to in other fighting games, but I'm forced to in DOA, even with the changes. It's still my main complaint. Fuzzy guard helps, but it's not enough as far as I'm concerned.



This is just straight incorrect. Christie's best attack is a guard break that guarantees her a 6P into a stun. Akira's guard breaks also have guaranteed follow-ups.

well i know some characters have guard breaks with fallow ups... thats just a free advanced hold in my eyes cus that shit is slow

 

[Skilletor]

You probably shouldn't be playing fighting games then.

Personally it's usually possible just to watch for the break in the string and stick out an attack.

Guess you've never fought anybody who delayed a string.

 

[Jefffcore]

The ability to delay something that long isn't possible, the throw comes out after the attack recovers. Also, if someone's delaying strings long enough, a jab will usually interrupt, or if it's a high follow up, a crush.

 

[avi]

Right now I think throws are overpowered, so I would not want the option to throw a stunned opponent. It's really hard to play defense when throws are so powerful and unbreakable. Punch~Throw, Punch>Punch~Throw and Run Up~Throw should not be viable strats, but they're ridiculously effective. It's depressing.

also with the increased back dash speeds, no accidental jumps and side steps it's allot easier to avoid people running in doing strings tryna grab you

The ability to delay something that long isn't possible, the throw comes out after the attack recovers. Also, if someone's delaying strings long enough, a jab will usually interrupt, or if it's a high follow up, a crush.

if some one delays there string to long it can be advanced held at that point. cus you know the fallow up and your just waiting for them to hit the button so you can hold it on the last frame and get HC damage =p

 

[Allan Paris]

Yo, try to avoid double posting. Thanks.