DOA5LR Top Players are Returning to Dead or Alive 5: Last Round
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lopedo
Well-Known Member
1: Team Ninja half asses everything they don't fuck up. They fucked the PC port up.
2: If you honestly believe that stagger escape is mindless mashing then you are not at a level to talk about game mechanics to begin with. <3 Sorry.
3: Longer stuns created an opportunity for mind games to be played and to get people to panic guess instead of react. If you find yourself stunned for hours, guess better, or you know, stagger escape.
4: You want guaranteed damage? You take your launch after the stun. You want more damage? Risk a longer stun. That sounds way better than getting hit into a fucking box for half of your life. Or an octocrutch. Or a dolphocrutch. Or an angry PS1 era Chinese person standing next to a floor with fire crackers. Or a car. Or... basically ANYWHERE unless you are playing the training mode stage.
5: And here I thought having a free get out of jail card with a cut scene was a comeback mechanic. Do the crutch?
6: CB is something that requires a set up. Mashing RB for the auto combo is a CB, except you don't need a set up. It just exists. To carry you. Or to carry your opponent into a box, or a car, or some random ungodly bullshit that wins you the round because you did absolutely nothing to deserve it except mash RB.
7: FSDC? Please refer to #1, and whether they fucked it up or half assed what they were trying to make is up to you to interpret.
WAZAAAAA
Well-Known Member
2: "haha stick goes brrrrr stun is short" you are directly being rewarded for mashing on your controller and this is indisputable. </3 Sorry.1: Team Ninja half asses everything they don't fuck up. They fucked the PC port up.
2: If you honestly believe that stagger escape is mindless mashing then you are not at a level to talk about game mechanics to begin with. <3 Sorry.
3: Longer stuns created an opportunity for mind games to be played and to get people to panic guess instead of react. If you find yourself stunned for hours, guess better, or you know, stagger escape.
4: You want guaranteed damage? You take your launch after the stun. You want more damage? Risk a longer stun. That sounds way better than getting hit into a fucking box for half of your life. Or an octocrutch. Or a dolphocrutch. Or an angry PS1 era Chinese person standing next to a floor with fire crackers. Or a car. Or... basically ANYWHERE unless you are playing the training mode stage.
5: And here I thought having a free get out of jail card with a cut scene was a comeback mechanic. Do the crutch?
6: CB is something that requires a set up. Mashing RB for the auto combo is a CB, except you don't need a set up. It just exists. To carry you. Or to carry your opponent into a box, or a car, or some random ungodly bullshit that wins you the round because you did absolutely nothing to deserve it except mash RB.
7: FSDC? Please refer to #1, and whether they fucked it up or half assed what they were trying to make is up to you to interpret.
3: "just play the stun guessing game for 95% of the match 4Head" <<< this is your brain since DOA4. Reminder that not everything has to be a fucking stun https://gfycat.com/ifr/clumsythisewe. The removal of Stagger Escape (and as a consequence, the reduction of all stuns) is one of the few things DOA6 clearly did right. If you disagree you're a masher.
4: A system that rewards you for extending the stun threshold as much as possible? Into the trash it goes.
You could have that, or maybe you could not have 6 different fucking launcher heights from the same fucking move versus the same fucking weight and go back to the sane system?
The stages are trash in both DOA5 and DOA6 anyway ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
5: DOA6 meter is not a comeback mechanic for the simple fact that the attacker is being rewarded with more meter than the victim. On the other hand in DOA5 you're being rewarded for losing by gaining access to PB and PL.
6: Yet another mechanic that rewards you for extending the stun threshold as much as possible? Into the trash it goes
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Anything with a resource portion that has access to functions can be used as a comeback mechanic. The moment you are put into stun, you already lost the neutral game. For starters, it has a built-in sabaki, that automatically deems it as a comeback mechanic. You can burn one meter to have a "set" omni-hold in placement for the blowhards. Also deemed as a comeback mechanic.
I get where you are coming with some (least the sane ones) but those are comeback mechanics in DOA6 technically speaking regardless how much the attacker gains from it. Put the attacker without a health lead on round 2+meter the player obtained, he now has access to "come back" from that situation. DOA5's portion was also comeback mechanics, but let's be real here.
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WAZAAAAA
Well-Known Member
Being directly rewarded by the game for losing = comeback mechanic.
Being meter-dependent doesn't automatically make it a comeback mechanic, SF4 is a good example. The Ultra gauge is a comeback mechanic, the Super gauge is not.
Son, for DOA6's case that is a literal comeback mechanic.
1) You have a built-in Sabaki.
2) Break hold creates an omni-hold to reset the neutral. A reversal. On top that it was stated in a interview from the devs from the first build is that they wanted players to "come back" from difficult situations for new players into becoming one-sided matches when they were asked about the new hold system alongside Fatal Rush. Henceforth, a comeback mechanic.
X-factor in Marvel is a comeback mechanic, the general health drop version. Same with DOA5 and any other game with that similar idea (T7 rage etc.)
The one in DOA6 is a literal pick-me-up/support comeback which is no different than any typical comeback factor. Again, they both lead to the same conclusion that conditions a player to comeback from that situation from a general mechanic/using resource.
lopedo
Well-Known Member
2: "haha stick goes brrrrr stun is short" you are directly being rewarded for mashing on your controller and this is indisputable. </3 Sorry.
3: "just play the stun guessing game for 95% of the match 4Head" <<< this is your brain since DOA4. Reminder that not everything has to be a fucking stun https://gfycat.com/ifr/clumsythisewe. The removal of Stagger Escape (and as a consequence, the reduction of all stuns) is one of the few things DOA6 clearly did right. If you disagree you're a masher.
4: A system that rewards you for extending the stun threshold as much as possible? Into the trash it goes.
You could have that, or maybe you could not have 6 different fucking launcher heights from the same fucking move versus the same fucking weight and go back to the sane system?
The stages are trash in both DOA5 and DOA6 anyway ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
5: DOA6 meter is not a comeback mechanic for the simple fact that the attacker is being rewarded with more meter than the victim. On the other hand in DOA5 you're being rewarded for losing by gaining access to PB and PL.
6: Yet another mechanic that rewards you for extending the stun threshold as much as possible? Into the trash it goes
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2: Mashing your controller means you are holding instead of stagger escaping. What is the correct input for the optimal stagger escape? Do you know? And yes, there is a right and wrong way to do it. Mashing is the wrong way to do it.
3: I didn't like DOA 4. DOA 6 IS DOA 4. Nonsensical garbage with the same everything for everybody except speed. And stage crutches. And meter crutches. Yeah, I remember when everything didn't launch. Good times. But if the game HAS to evolve, I'd rather stagger escape and have guessing my way out of a stun be hidden behind actual mechanics like stagger escaping, like launch heights, than just have a 50/50 chance of getting out because I have meter. Every fighting game is a guess, most of them just hide it behind mechanics that make you look over that fact and try to get good at those mechanics. DOA 6 doesn't hide it. Rolling slots takes about as much talent as playing 6. Also... you could just.... block?
4: The stages in 5 are at least different. And snow looks like snow. And the boxes are where it would make sense for a box to be. And there's no fucking octocrutch.
5: DOA 6 rewards everybody with meter regardless of what they do or don't do. The game is made for people who never made it in DOA 1-5 to feel great about themselves by giving them a way to... 50% of the time avoid damage and cause their own. It also lets people side step. In a 3D fighter I need meter to side step. Back in 5 I just... could, and all of them were different... the punches and the kicks. DOA 6 is made for people to feel good, but its so brain dead that nobody did, and as such the game was dead 3 weeks in. A game needs mechanics for players to evolve it into something competitive. DOA 6 has nothing to evolve, so nobody played it. The 10 people trying to get a participation trophy offline don't count, they just wanted free $.
6: And that's the entire point. Whether you like it or not, I get rewarded for X, Y or Z in 5. In 6, I'm expected to feel rewarded for using the crutch at the right time and then mashing RB. As somebody that actually likes to compete and exchange information, knowledge, and play mind games in a match.... uh uh. DOA 6 is a 50/50 with crutches. And if I wanted to gamble, I'd go to a casino. If you include all of the garbage DLC, the casino would be cheaper in the long run, the experience would be the same, but the pay out would be way higher.
lopedo
Well-Known Member
The reason DOA 4 had such hatred is... just look at any problem any of the competitive players have with 6. Its the same game, but with meter and stages that win for you. Speed is all that matters. Everything else is exactly the same. Bound, close hit, boom. That's it. There's nothing else. DOA 4 was like that, except it had no meter and no bound, but otherwise there was one viable thing to do before something and after everything. It didn't let any of the competitive players expand and grow, it shipped with preset things and died with preset things. Without letting competitive players innovate ways to play, a game can't grow.
The move for CB CAN be applied at any point, but the CB effect only happens when somebody is at the end of the stun threshold. The frame data is in the game. Back in DOA2U/3 days, we all had to do some research to figure things out. I called the shit "window frames" for years even after I understood it. I learned DOA2U by feel. In 5LR the data is in the game. And the moves have names, unlike 6, so you can test your ground game set ups, combos, whatever you want.
In 6 there is nothing to test. It all works, there is no wrong option in 6. Wanna launch? Sure. Wanna stun? Sure. Wanna mash the crutch? Sure! Since 6 has SO many get out of jail free cards, and the majority of the round is dependent on one wrong guess into an intractable on the stage, there is 0 strategy or logic to playing. Anything you do is right, because its all a 50/50 guess. There is no skill gap. Me punishing your unsafe move for 20 points of damage doesn't matter, because your guess gets you a stage intractable, and RB does the auto combo for you. There can be no evolution from that.
Compared to 5LR, where you could drop a timing based and (easy) execution combo to force a set up, or gamble positioning to line up a stage intractable that doesn't automatically win, but gives you a nice edge. Meanwhile the other side has to look at what you did, calculate whether they are + or -, and play the mind game back around what's going on in the match by actually having knowledge, execution, and yes, guess work. The skill gap is night and day.
That was long and most of it had nothing to do with your question. My bad.
WAZAAAAA
Well-Known Member
1) Leifang must be full of comeback mechanics then 8Head
2) You have to look at the availability of the mechanic to establish if it's a comeback mechanic or not. If you want to have have your own definition of comeback mechanic then I don't want to hear it, you are entitled to your opinion but you're not entitled to your own facts. "IT'S STRONG AND NEEDS METER SO IT'S A COMEBACK MECHANIC LUL" this is the logic you've been using, but that's not the whole picture.
I don't care what the devs say when doing PR shit if the facts say otherwise (also, citation needed). The devs aren't always right.
2: what is this nonsensical distinction you're making? You can mash "directions" on your controller just like you can mash "buttons". Ever heard of the phrase "churning the butter" on your stick kek. You can mash 360 motions, and that's the optimal way to SE in DOA5LR (not the only way https://files.catbox.moe/dpxroe.mp4). Depending on the DOA, you are not bound to doing 360 motions and any direction/button is equally efficient to shave off stun. Every iteration of SE is all about that mashinnnnn
4: lmao fuck that ship stage I banned it from my random filter and replaced it with the training one
5: metered side attacks are retarded, but the side stepping implementation was also dumb in 5 (can get CH by non-tracking strikes lmao). Add it to the list of mechanics TN is still struggling with (ground game, air game), proven by the fact they keep doing tweaks. Comparing poop to fecal matter again.
6: I'd rather have a shit mechanic that resets the neutral rather than yet another shit mechanic that rewards the stun game, but this is subjective I guess
whens DOA2U
My man, Leifang has to earn that. Universal hold system which is the normal way to play for DOA because everyone can do it on the fly and doesn't get juiced up by backup tools, even characters with general sabaki implementations.
Lots of people call it a comeback mechanic regarding the Break Hold, Bladez call it that way, some of the other top players do because that's essentially what it is. You might be one of the very few minorities within DOA to actually believe that it isn't or you are that oblivious.
Massively ironic considering the previous post you made with that list with the exception of the PC version being a costco version.
What you insinuate from the previous post is literally "My way of DOA is better, and therefore any other way of DOA is false. So therefore, I shall indoctrinate the game to how -I- play, which is obviously the right way of course, the mechanics I listed are no good and everything else I provided teaches you to be a better player. Obviously i'm lying of course, but I think i'm still correct." - But go on.
Oh please, son go sit down. Nobody making shit up but you. Move along.
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lopedo
Well-Known Member
This whole thread is just the prime example of why I stay away from pretty much all public DOA discussions. Everything turns to a debate and everybody has their own opinion. I could sit here and argue crutches and stages and ground game all day but somebody out there is going to justify their version of what's happening and twist it enough to believe that it can be competitive, better, different, etc etc.
At the end of the day, nobody is going to get me to believe DOA 6 is good just like I'm not going to get them to believe that it is utter garbage. So let's stick to objective facts that aren't a matter of opinion.
DOA 6 was highly anticipated by many people. DOA 6 had a demo, and regardless of how people felt about the game, a good majority of them noticed the INSANE input delay. That was not fixed when it launched. DOA 6 launched, and everybody was playing it.... for 3 weeks, or maybe a month. People streamed it, myself included. I had 200+ subs, I know some had more, some had less. At that point, I was pretty much over the game. So was everybody else. Numbers dwindled, and by the time lobbies came out, it was pretty difficult to find one.
The world tour happened, but so few players participated in it, that it was quite astounding how so many notable names quit right after. Rikuto and Kwiggle, popular and successful international tournament player Gehektball. That's just to name a few. Hell, Sweet Revenge, he never even bothered with the game to begin with. I said I'd never go offline for the game, and I never did. SonicFox played 5 as he was winning all of those tournaments for the other games. Many tournaments had some wait times for him to finish his other game brackets. And guess what, he didn't do it with 6.
The people that stayed with 6 wanted to capitalize on the Twitch revenue, but look at the typical numbers now. 60 viewers TOPS, and most of the time less than that, regardless of who streams the game. DLC for the game was DOA 5 characters that were changed to fit the launch and bound combo system. And the typical titty costumes, which to this day I don't care about or understand. As a personal note, did y'all buy the hair colors to then bitch about having to pay for them? Or... ?
The overarching point, regardless of how anybody views DOA 6 on a good, competitive, bad, whatever scale... is that it failed. The game failed, and has been abandoned by nearly everybody who has played all of the DOA games since 2U. And now Team Ninja is saying they won't put out anymore DLC, and everybody is... talking about it. There is nothing Team Ninja can do to revive the game. It left a bad taste. So.... now everybody is upset that Team Ninja is ending "support", but any time they put a patch or DLC out, people bitched about it. So... do you want them to charge for new hair colors, or do you want them to "end support".... ?
As far as competitive DOA is concerned, DOA 6 was taken seriously only by people who wanted a participation trophy in the failed "world tour" Team Ninja (tried) to do. So we can argue about which game is better, or which game we like more and why, and if you aren't interested in competition then 6, 4, whatever DOA is great for you. They'll carry you. They were designed to do so.
From the eyes of most competitive players, these less appreciated entries into the franchise are simply bad and not viable for competition. So, did enough "whales" buy into the DOA 5 characters and costumes and hair colors for 6 to be profitable? I'd wager and guess the answer would be a hard no.
Did the competitive players play, and keep the game alive? Definitely not. So is 5LR better? Or is 6 better? Which one lived longer?
At the end of the day, nobody is going to get me to believe DOA 6 is good just like I'm not going to get them to believe that it is utter garbage. So let's stick to objective facts that aren't a matter of opinion.
DOA 6 was highly anticipated by many people. DOA 6 had a demo, and regardless of how people felt about the game, a good majority of them noticed the INSANE input delay. That was not fixed when it launched. DOA 6 launched, and everybody was playing it.... for 3 weeks, or maybe a month. People streamed it, myself included. I had 200+ subs, I know some had more, some had less. At that point, I was pretty much over the game. So was everybody else. Numbers dwindled, and by the time lobbies came out, it was pretty difficult to find one.
The world tour happened, but so few players participated in it, that it was quite astounding how so many notable names quit right after. Rikuto and Kwiggle, popular and successful international tournament player Gehektball. That's just to name a few. Hell, Sweet Revenge, he never even bothered with the game to begin with. I said I'd never go offline for the game, and I never did. SonicFox played 5 as he was winning all of those tournaments for the other games. Many tournaments had some wait times for him to finish his other game brackets. And guess what, he didn't do it with 6.
The people that stayed with 6 wanted to capitalize on the Twitch revenue, but look at the typical numbers now. 60 viewers TOPS, and most of the time less than that, regardless of who streams the game. DLC for the game was DOA 5 characters that were changed to fit the launch and bound combo system. And the typical titty costumes, which to this day I don't care about or understand. As a personal note, did y'all buy the hair colors to then bitch about having to pay for them? Or... ?
The overarching point, regardless of how anybody views DOA 6 on a good, competitive, bad, whatever scale... is that it failed. The game failed, and has been abandoned by nearly everybody who has played all of the DOA games since 2U. And now Team Ninja is saying they won't put out anymore DLC, and everybody is... talking about it. There is nothing Team Ninja can do to revive the game. It left a bad taste. So.... now everybody is upset that Team Ninja is ending "support", but any time they put a patch or DLC out, people bitched about it. So... do you want them to charge for new hair colors, or do you want them to "end support".... ?
As far as competitive DOA is concerned, DOA 6 was taken seriously only by people who wanted a participation trophy in the failed "world tour" Team Ninja (tried) to do. So we can argue about which game is better, or which game we like more and why, and if you aren't interested in competition then 6, 4, whatever DOA is great for you. They'll carry you. They were designed to do so.
From the eyes of most competitive players, these less appreciated entries into the franchise are simply bad and not viable for competition. So, did enough "whales" buy into the DOA 5 characters and costumes and hair colors for 6 to be profitable? I'd wager and guess the answer would be a hard no.
Did the competitive players play, and keep the game alive? Definitely not. So is 5LR better? Or is 6 better? Which one lived longer?
WAZAAAAA
Well-Known Member
@DestructionBomb
"bla bla pointless Leifang stuff with no substance whatsoever"
"Appeal to popularity 12Head" I don't care how many big names you're gonna bring up. You mention XCal but he's not exactly the best one at labeling stuff, he called free stepping "new alternative side step method" lol
Of course I believe that the DOA games with less focus on the stun game feel better. But that's just like, my opinion, "son", not a fact. Learn the difference.
Real talk though why go back to DOA5 *now* all of a sudden? It never went away. It is still playable. Just play it if you like it better lmao you don't have to bandwagon on 6 just because it's the latest installment or because it's the "developer supported title" y'all fake as fuck smh my head
"bla bla pointless Leifang stuff with no substance whatsoever"
"Appeal to popularity 12Head" I don't care how many big names you're gonna bring up. You mention XCal but he's not exactly the best one at labeling stuff, he called free stepping "new alternative side step method" lol
Of course I believe that the DOA games with less focus on the stun game feel better. But that's just like, my opinion, "son", not a fact. Learn the difference.
Real talk though why go back to DOA5 *now* all of a sudden? It never went away. It is still playable. Just play it if you like it better lmao you don't have to bandwagon on 6 just because it's the latest installment or because it's the "developer supported title" y'all fake as fuck smh my head
Uhhh.... oh shit -drum roll- cool story.
Yes you made an opinion (no shit sherlock), but what good is it if it doesn't exactly hold weight to the conclusion of the game that doesn't exactly teach you anything? Why contribute to this topic if your logic caters to the lowest denominator from the latest game that doesn't truly support it?
What exactly is your logic flexing here? take off the muscle cushion before that shit pops when you trip on the floor "Son", I mean who exactly are you fooling here?
Learn the difference within DOA6 on what is a comeback mechanic and what is not a comeback mechanic. This wouldn't even be a debate in a discussion if you simply figured it out in the first place. To literally spoon feed you and hold your hand to cross the street is hilariously mind boggling, but that's to be expected amirite?
Anyways this discussion is over. Good day.
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GarryJaune
Well-Known Member
Backing to DOA5 for several days made me feel great that finally I can play a normal,logical DOA game.
what's more,due to losing a lot DOA skills in DOA5 I started to understand why there are some people prefer DOA6,because
1.no stagger escape because I cant but others can,it's not fair,check
2.always lose neutral and get stun,OK 4S let's go,check
3.no force tech,check.btw I think that updated hard knock down tech game was a joke,pretty like playing seen cards wtf why not teamninja just keep deleting whole force tech mechanic forever in DOA6？
4.8SS mashing save my ass,check
5.6S mashing save my ass again,CHECK
6.environment instant kill,check.（fuck dangerzone in 5LR btw,bullshit design）
basically DOA noobs prefer DOA6,fact
what's more,due to losing a lot DOA skills in DOA5 I started to understand why there are some people prefer DOA6,because
1.no stagger escape because I cant but others can,it's not fair,check
2.always lose neutral and get stun,OK 4S let's go,check
3.no force tech,check.btw I think that updated hard knock down tech game was a joke,pretty like playing seen cards wtf why not teamninja just keep deleting whole force tech mechanic forever in DOA6？
4.8SS mashing save my ass,check
5.6S mashing save my ass again,CHECK
6.environment instant kill,check.（fuck dangerzone in 5LR btw,bullshit design）
basically DOA noobs prefer DOA6,fact
Kasumi-Phase-X
Well-Known Member
If there was a DOA5LR Tournament, I would love to enter into these events. Since DOA5LR is one of favorites games from the DOA brand.