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Xbox360 1.03 patch delayed until February

Dr. Teeth

Dr. Teeth

Active Member
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Omegan Eckhart said:
So removing holds from stuns is the right way to go then? This wouldn't even be DOA if that were done.
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So I guess DOA 1 wasn't a DOA game then?

What you are suggesting would completely vaporize any identity DOA has. The counter system is the only thing that sets it apart from other fighters. You would have it so if Gen Fu hits you with 6P he can land CB with no way out for the person who got hit? The balance in this game would be completely fucked up and every match would be over in 10 seconds.
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Is that what I said? Show me where I said I support the removal of stuns from the game.

I still don't know why people even play this game if the counter system bothers them so much. I don't play Street Fighter, you know why? Because you can mash DP out of almost everything, it annoys the shit out of me so I don't play the game. I don't play the game and keep asking that they are removed I just say, "I think this game is stupidly designed and I don't want to play it".
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I don't have an issue with the stun system. I have an issue with the way it's been implemented since DOA 4. You can't guess with holds nearly as reliably in DOA 1 - 3 because the game wasn't as focused on stunning back then. All I want is a return to that system. The same issues were there (except for DOA 1 where you couldn't hold out of stun at all), but because stunning wasn't as much of an occurrence and there were more natural combos and reliable ways to get damage (not to mention how much damage things did on HCH in the event of a wrong guess), stunning and guessing wasn't nearly as much of a factor. When those situations did come up, they weren't as big of a deal because it was a smaller part of the game. DOA 4 - 5 have chosen to go the other way and focus more on this stupid stunning nonsense, and the games are less solid as a result.

I'm all for more unholdable stuns, but this idea that counters are the thing holding this game back and should just be disposed of is retarded. If such as huge part of the game bothers people why do they play it in the first place?
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Again, this is not what I said.
 
D

dawnbringer

Active Member
shunwong said:
The problem is not with counters/holds. The problem is with holding from stun and the prevalence of the stun game, which did not begin until DOA4.
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I think the problem is not with holding from critical stun, but with how much critical stun there is. Maybe introducing more attacks that deal pure hit stun (not critical stuns) on CH and even HCH would provide field for improvements.
 
Karraz

Karraz

Member
LOL you all talk like you were developers and actually have the power to change the core of DoA.

GAMES ARE NOT A DEMOCRACY, THEY ARE A PRODUCT, LIKE IT? BUY IT. HATE IT? DON'T BUY IT.

Sorry, but that's the truth
 
Omegan Eckhart

Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
Dr. Teeth said:
The thing that's bad about DOA is that defense shouldn't be allowed to be played AFTER YOU GET HIT. In every other fighting game under the sun, if I hit you that means that I have successfully broken your defense. You deserve every single bit of damage that you are receiving. Why should you get a second chance? You made a mistake and I outplayed you. DOA should be no different.
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With all due respect saying that the bad thing about DOA is being able to defend yourself after being hit and that DOA should be like every other fighting game in this respect translates to after getting hit no holds should be allowed. I can't think of how to read what you said as anything else.

I never played DOA1 I started on DOA2 on the Dreamcast so I can't comment on how that game played. If you think holds in stun should be removed and the entire game retuned to suit this change then that's fine, but I didn't see you say that anywhere all I saw you type was defence after getting hit is bad.
 
Musourenka

Musourenka

Active Member
Karraz said:
LOL you all talk like you were developers and actually have the power to change the core of DoA.

GAMES ARE NOT A DEMOCRACY, THEY ARE A PRODUCT, LIKE IT? BUY IT. HATE IT? DON'T BUY IT.

Sorry, but that's the truth
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It's best for TN and the DOA franchise if DOA5 becomes a competitive fighting game. That's why so many people are arguing for the current version of the patch -- it makes DOA5 that much closer to a competitive fighting game.

It may not be a democracy, but we really want TN to understand this.
 
Raansu

Raansu

Well-Known Member
Karraz said:
LOL you all talk like you were developers and actually have the power to change the core of DoA.

GAMES ARE NOT A DEMOCRACY, THEY ARE A PRODUCT, LIKE IT? BUY IT. HATE IT? DON'T BUY IT.

Sorry, but that's the truth
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You'd go out of business within a week with that mentality.
 
Dr. Teeth

Dr. Teeth

Active Member
Standard Donor
Omegan Eckhart said:
With all due respect saying that the bad thing about DOA is being able to defend yourself after being hit and that DOA should be like every other fighting game in this respect translates to after getting hit no holds should be allowed. I can't think of how to read what you said as anything else.

I never played DOA1 I started on DOA2 on the Dreamcast so I can't comment on how that game played. If you think holds in stun should be removed and the entire game retuned to suit this change then that's fine, but I didn't see you say that anywhere all I saw you type was defence after getting hit is bad.
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Ok fair enough. I should clarify. My issue with the current DOA games is that the amount of situations where you can guess with holds to escape damage are much more prevalent than they used to be, and it's hurting the quality of the game. I feel that if TN seriously cut down on the frequency of these situations, then holding out of stun wouldn't be that big a deal. They wouldn't need to remove holding from stun per se, but maybe by reducing the amount of stuns overall and increasing the amount of natural combos
they could strike a balance that would appeal to everyone. Sorry if I wasn't clear before.
 
Omegan Eckhart

Omegan Eckhart

Well-Known Member
Dr. Teeth said:
Ok fair enough. I should clarify. My issue with the current DOA games is that the amount of situations where you can guess with holds to escape damage are much more prevalent than they used to be, and it's hurting the quality of the game. I feel that if TN seriously cut down on the frequency of these situations, then holding out of stun wouldn't be that big a deal. They wouldn't need to remove holding from stun per se, but maybe by reducing the amount of stuns overall and increasing the amount of natural combos
they could strike a balance that would appeal to everyone. Sorry if I wasn't clear before.
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It's fine don't worry about it, thanks for clarifying your position. More unholdable stuns and more natural combo's is something I could definitely get behind. Keeping the glitch in place would be a good start I suppose.
 
grap3fruitman

grap3fruitman

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Omegan Eckhart said:
So removing holds from stuns is the right way to go then? This wouldn't even be DOA if that were done.
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Dead_or_Alive_Flyer_02.jpg
 
Batcommander

Batcommander

Well-Known Member
Omegan Eckhart said:
It's fine don't worry about it, thanks for clarifying your position. More unholdable stuns and more natural combo's is something I could definitely get behind. Keeping the glitch in place would be a good start I suppose.
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sigh, this would improve the game soooo much. They can keep holds in stun (let's face it, TN will never take this away), but just adding this would make this game so much better and more fun imo.
 
Jaguar360

Jaguar360

Well-Known Member
Okay, here's my humble opinion.
Unlike most people, I love holds in DOA. Dead or Alive makes you think probably more than any other fighter. On defense, you use strategy to narrow down your opponent's moves and counter based on that. I think you are all missing that you have to have a strong offense too. (Don't rage yet, let me explain further.) I think that if you hit your opponent, you shouldn't be able to just use your strongest combo every time. You have to mix things up and think about what your defender will do. That's one of the things that makes DOA good. If we don't have holds as an active presence in the series, then DOA will be much worse and won't be very unique or fun. But again, this is just an inexperienced teenager rambling.
 
Raansu

Raansu

Well-Known Member
Jaguar360 said:
Okay, here's my humble opinion.
Unlike most people, I love holds in DOA. Dead or Alive makes you think probably more than any other fighter. On defense, you use strategy to narrow down your opponent's moves and counter based on that. I think you are all missing that you have to have a strong offense too. (Don't rage yet, let me explain further.) I think that if you hit your opponent, you shouldn't be able to just use your strongest combo every time. You have to mix things up and think about what your defender will do. That's one of the things that makes DOA good. If we don't have holds as an active presence in the series, then DOA will be much worse and won't be very unique or fun. But again, this is just an inexperienced teenager rambling.
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Lets see here. The defender at neutral has these kind of options.

-Spacing / Korean back dash
-Fuzzy guarding
-Crushes
-Defensive Holds (low holds avoid all highs and standing throws as well as stopping all low attacks)
-Side Steps
-Throw punishment ( makes things 10x worse since everything on block is negative frames for the attacker and 90% of the throws are unbreakable)
-Whiff punishment

Please tell me why again that you think they deserve 4-5 chances to escape out of a stun as well when the attacker has to fight through all those options just to open you up into a stun only to be stopped because you can still hold AND you can stagger escape out of stuns.

Revert the stun system to DoA2/3's stun system and remove holds from stuns. Game will be 10x better.
 
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