DOA5U Phase 4 match video and critique thread

[Tenryuga]

Some of you seem to not understand the point of spacing so I will explain it here. This is relevant because as phase 4 players I believe you need to have this skill. Spacing serves a purpose for different characters. If you play a character like Kasumi, Phase 4 or Alpha without having any concept of it good luck against any solid Hayate, Ein, Momiji, Hitomi Ayane etc etc the list goes on. It is foolish to simply bomb rush your opponent.

The point of spacing is to establish MOMENTUM in a fight and gain the ADVANTAGE. If a player is trying to keep you out with pokes why the hell would you bombrush them and get blown up? Instead let them make the mistake and capitalize. Spacing is a fundamental skill; it is not character specific. What is character specific is how good a characters range is, what their goal is in spacing and how effective THEY (keyword they and not YOU) are at spacing. Just because a character sucks ass at it doesn't give you an excuse to not know how to do it. Don't be lazy.

For example if you are balls at spacing (more specifically footsies) you will never be able to use Kasumi's 4H+K skillfully in the neutral game. You will not know which range is best to use Alpha's 6K to approach. The list goes on. Point is learn how to fight when you are not in your ideal range and figure out how to get the opponent to make mistakes or hesitate so you can get into your ideal range. That is what spacing is all about.

Lastly spacing is not limited to defense. If you are spacing in a defensive way that is called keep-out / turtling. Zoning and Footsies are examples of types of spacing that can be a combination of offense and defense. Sometimes Zoning is purely offensive especially in games where characters have projectiles. In this game 66P / 66K class moves are examples of offensive spacing / zoning. Basically moves that get you in from a long range and have a chance of scoring counterhits.

As Phase 4 your goal during spacing is to be as patient as possible and wait for whiffs you can capitalize on. Stay at a range where you can run up grab or run up and start string if your opponent is hesitating. You do NOT want to play keep out. This character does not have the tools for that.

 

[J.D.E.]

I think another issue is that a lot of people compare Phase 4 & Alpha to Kasumi too much. Us people who actually play all 3 or understand their differences have been saying this from day 1. They are not the same type of characters. Phase 4 doesn't have many lows like Kasumi nor does she have many tools to effectively pressure with like Kasumi. Phase 4 is the type of character where you have to take the time & learn her match ups in order to be effective (they all do for that matter, just Phase 4 works harder in this scenario since she doesn't have as many weapons). She requires someone who understands her & can execute effectively. She does have some decent reach in space with 3K, H+K, 6H+K & a few other options. When you're on the offensive, you are forced to tick throw when an opponent blocks most of the times assuming that the opponent is blocking. She does not have the string delay type of pressure as Kasumi. She doesn't have the 6P2K, 4P2K, 66H+K, 66K variants, or 3P delay like her. Her 4P & 1P in general are both way slower & very unsafe on block. That right there alone should tell you to stop comparing her to Kasumi. The only thing that Phase 4 has over Kasumi is damage output. She has no parries but really deep stuns. The problem is that you have very much to lean on in order to get it going.

Alpha, another character that is often compared to her. Alpha is more towards the offensive. She on the other hand does have string delay pressure. Like I said in my recent post, her offensive game is her strong suit, but she doesn't have as many tools like Kasumi. She doesn't have the same wake up game. She doesn't have that many buttons out in space as Kasumi. She doesn't have 66PP variant, 3P+K variants, 66K variants. So again, that should stop you right there. Both her & Phase 4 are twice as unsafe as Kasumi. She doesn't have a hoshinpo dash that she can use either. She has parries. While she doesn't have the same type of throws, she has some that will do her justice like 236236T just to name one. She's (Phase) forced to commit to unsafe tools on block like 3P & 66K. She (Alpha) has a harder time opening people up. Again, this stuff is not Kasumi's type of game.

Kasumi is very unsafe, but has more ways than both of them to keep her safe: String delay, safe follow ups as options, tick throwing options, tools with lots of pushback to keep at safe range. Plus, she has ways to open you up. As Kasumi, you have to dig deep for her damage that's if you're wanting to get the max damage potential with her, but she has universal BNB juggles that will average around 80 pts of damage on counter. She also has hoshinpo (3P+K) & its variants. Phase has Chifu which gap closes but her follow ups are totally different. They both have 6H+K, 9K, but Kasumi has 66K~K which is safe at -3. So she can use that as a follow up if her 66K (whiff punisher, unsafe at -10) is blocked. The worst case scenario is the opponent has to read the 2nd kick & hold it. She doesn't have to worry about 66KK -17 on block when she has that to her disposal. I'm not going to list Alpha's since this isn't an Alpha thread, so here are Phase 4 & Kasumi's key tools:

Phase 4
P
PP
66PP
6P
33K
3K
H+K
8P
3P+KP
2P

Kasumi
P
PP
8P
6P
6PK/PP6PK
4P
3P
2P
66PP
66K~K
4H+K
33K
3K

If you go through Kasumi's options, then you will clearly see that she has what she needs to go on the offensive without having to worry about being crazy unsafe. If you add her throws (236T, 6T, 46T, 4T & 214T) that goes along with her P variants, her tick throwing her is a little more brutal whereas Phase you have a little less to work with (236T, 6T, 4T, 214T). Her parries also give her the frame advantage & in some cases give her guaranteed damage. As a matter of fact, if she parries Phase's H+K, 3P, & a few other ones that gives her +7 or above, she's eating guaranteed damage. Phase 4 (& Alpha) is not that girl.

So you guys have to understand what you're working with rather than trying to make her out to be "Kasumi" or even "Alpha", somebody she clearly cannot be. Same goes for Alpha. I'm not trying to sound like I'm downplaying her, just explaining the differences between the 3 to tell people that they are not the same type of characters. By you keep comparing the 3, you're messing with interpretation, your progression & how to approach Phase 4 (& Alpha) in general. Phase 4 is a character that has to be patient & know when to strike at the right moment.

 

[Chapstick]

If you see me use 4P outside of juggles at completely wrong times, it's because of using Kasumi. There are still some things between the two of them that I mix up

lol. this one uploaded pretty jumpy

Accidentally input 236T as 3T a couple of times during my matches that night. Completely forgot how to fight second half of the match. Dunno why but I kept trying to throw. Still use 3P+K too close to opponents.

I love using 9PK on opponents getting up, I've had that move even crush mid WU kicks

 

[tokiopewpew]

If you see me use 4P outside of juggles at completely wrong times, it's because of using Kasumi. There are still some things between the two of them that I mix up

lol. this one uploaded pretty jumpy

Accidentally input 236T as 3T a couple of times during my matches that night. Completely forgot how to fight second half of the match. Dunno why but I kept trying to throw. Still use 3P+K too close to opponents.

I love using 9PK on opponents getting up, I've had that move even crush mid WU kicks

I really can't say much to your first video since you won clearly 3-0 and your opponent did not really seem to know what to use when with Phase.

However, some tips in reference to your second video:

0:25 - When your PK get's blocked, you are at -10. Therefore, you are better of not not attacking immediately after it.

2:15 - 2:30 - Although this is imo the point were you lost the momentum in the fight, it is hard to give you some advices since you both were just using a lot of moves in hope of hitting the opponent first. However, you may try to be more patient next time, for example, you got hit by him three times a row just because you wanted to press buttons (throws like you said) as soon as you got up.

In general, I would recommend to use 6T more instead of 236T for punishment, especially online, like you did in the your first video. 236T as i12 throw is something that is better used as hold punishment during the stun game, when you see that the opponent is holding panic-fueled. Whiffing an throw attempt with 6T (maybe because the opponent did a low hold) doesn't make you vulnerable to counter-hits that much because it has a slower start-up and therefore a slower recovery.

Also, try to get more out of your stuns. When you are able to hit (stun) your opponent from behind after jumping over him with 9P, you could go for a launch and a juggle that would deal a lot more damage as just doing a PPKKK string.

I'm not very familiar with Hayabusa's frame data but it looks like that this player also got away with some unsafe stuff due to the online delay. Online makes such fights more difficult you have to decide between trying to go for a throw punish with the risk that the opponent will just mash out if his disadvantage or trying to land a counter-hit with the risk of getting blocked and ending up at disadvantage on your own instead.

 

[tokiopewpew]

Dropping that here. P+K is your friend when it comes to evasive stances, though it does not help against everything.

http://www.freestepdodge.com/media/win-some-lose-some.6617/

 

[Chapstick]

Dropping that here. P+K is your friend when it comes to evasive stances, though it does not help against everything.

http://www.freestepdodge.com/media/win-some-lose-some.6617/

Hayate's command SS (I've heard this one is stance dependent) and of course Marie's minuet can dodge it but I've had it work against Christie and Rachel.

In regards to your video- my usual sparring partner mains those two. x~x

 

[Chapstick]

Some crappy replays to bring the thread back to life. I find myself using 2H+K way too much and I still randomly throw out 4P's for some reason. In general I make quite a few mistakes.

@3:02 - I was so pissed off at myself

 

[tokiopewpew]

Not as crappy as you think, I think you did quite well. Imo, it's okay to use 2H+K some times, it's actually more evasive as it looks and I've personally never seen someone holding it on reaction. Same as with 4P, you just need to take care that it doesn't whiff badly and even if it does, who cares if the opponent is not taking advantage out of it.

I like the way you space and that you did not show much respect to your opponent.

 

[Zero Beat]

Yeah, 2H+K crouches you very low. I swear I've seen some mids whiff when I use that, but need further testing to confirm. Still not the best move she has, but it does have its uses.

 

[Chapstick]

I'd like it better if she had Kasumi's 66H+K because it covers more ground and is pretty good at crushing mids (even wake up kicks)

 

[tokiopewpew]

Someone please give me some help with the Akira match-up. I feel like playing with tied hands against this character, can't neither use my fast pokes for to interrupt (get's crushed by instant lows or sidesteps) nor low-to-high or mid-to-high strings (these get also crushed). Using mids only is also risky.

Getting close while spacing is also difficult, even if he's whiffing like crazy, my attacks get beaten out or won't hit. Not even tracking mids like H+K.

Any tips?

 

[Zephyrion]

Yeah this MU is hard to play as Phase 4, Akira can call out a lot of Phase's spacing tools. I can just give you a few tips off of my head
- Don't remember what the command is, but the string ending with the Tetsuzanko (shoulder tackle) is throw punishable. This screwed your spacing a lot and he never paid for using it

- You can periodically use sidesteps against him. While some of his normals have half-tracking properties( like his low kicks), he doesn't have any long string, or string ending with a tracking move, so you can really make use of that to start your stun game

- His stance eats tracking move, so you can't rely on them, just try to make him whiff the follow-up or block > throw punish

- More linked to what happened in the match, but the Akira player fed you with s and stance s. While it may be hard to react on the first few rounds, you could have attempted to low crush him once ( is extremely risky, but still a launcher that grants reasonable damage on mid-weights, is also punishable but grants you a really deep stun to work with and is low reward, but covers enough distance to be useful against long range lows)). The Akira player was overly offensive, you would have been hit airborne even if you failed, so it wouldn't have been a huge trade-off

- Since the Akira player fully played the offense/ interrupt game, you could have taken your time first or second round to just play really safe and watch what he did to react accordingly. Alpha's holds are really good, and the fact that he never commited to throws in the neutral game proves that you might have played this more defensively. Don't say it would have worked, but it would have allowed you to figure out most of the stuff I said mid-match, or at least after a few ones

Overall you still did really well, I'm sure that if you can apply one of these tips, it'll give you a bit more freedom in this MU !

 

[tokiopewpew]

- You can periodically use sidesteps against him. While some of his normals have half-tracking properties( like his low kicks), he doesn't have any long string, or string ending with a tracking move, so you can really make use of that to start your stun game
- More linked to what happened in the match, but the Akira player fed you with s and stance s. While it may be hard to react on the first few rounds, you could have attempted to low crush him once ( is extremely risky, but still a launcher that grants reasonable damage on mid-weights, is also punishable but grants you a really deep stun to work with and is low reward, but covers enough distance to be useful against long range lows)). The Akira player was overly offensive, you would have been hit airborne even if you failed, so it wouldn't have been a huge trade-off

I agree that using sidesteps and low crushes more might have been be the right way to deal with this Akira. Though I'm not sure if using a raw 7K on a guess at close range or 9K at mid range is a good idea since they are prone to sidestepping and getting the right timing is diffficult. 8P might be the best choice here imo, note that it is only -5 on block and therefore not throw-punishable.

However, I'll try these things out next time I'll meet an Akira player to see how it works. Thanks for your tips!

 

[DestructionBomb]

I think the match up is not really Akira but rather that "particular" Akira player itself. Reason why I say that is because that particular player was a bit auto pilot and not exactly playing Akira. You can punish SSK with 2T upon block which is -10, You can also SS the palm as well. After watching the video, notice that he used almost the same setup and moves. After SSK he would immediately go for the palm. After performing certain highs, he would immediately try to go for a low and crush your highs which is 2K. 2K can stun on CH..but because you were immediately continuing in a follow-up which may have resulted in a few highs, he went for it and got the CH property from it.

The Akira player just got away with it in that match. It happens.

 

[tokiopewpew]

His timing in using the correct move to anticipate my actions was very good, though I wasn't able to find a clear pattern in his actions. I can't tell if this was always his intention, if so, hats off to him. In general, I expect Akria players to use her good mid and jabs more, and since my mids aren't that useful against him due to his sidestep ability and speed, I thought using my own highs is the best idea to get advantage. Now, since he was using lows that often, it made me thinking about what would be the best attack for counter even more. Pretty difficult imo, since Akrias lows are also pretty good.

However, general disadvantage in terms of frames also played a role. In the moment where he used his 3K after I got a 2P counterhit and went for 1PP, he still won because we tied frames but he had more damage. I should have used 6P here, but as I said, I actually did no want to use mid attacks only. Therefore, I learned that using 1PP even after being at +4 (from 2P) isn't a good idea if you do not have a hard read on your opponent that he will go high.

Nevertheless, I still think the major reason for losing was not the close range game, but the long and mid range game. I'm sure that using moves like 66K is a pretty bad idea in this matchup, as well as 3P+K due to their lack of tracking.

Thanks a lot for your input, Bomb.

 

[tokiopewpew]

It accidentally happended that I met the same guy again. Was better this time x)

 

[DestructionBomb]

It accidentally happended that I met the same guy again. Was better this time x)

Good stuff. Notice that there was alot of 2K involved from him again, he tried to get you on CH from your highs but he kept risking it.

 

[ShinMaruku]

Not sure how active this thread will ever be but I'd like for a progress report.
1 Month ago my Phase 4:

Today:

Hows the improvement guys?

 

[tokiopewpew]

Well, just from what I saw in your videos, I'd say you've improved the usage of your juggles and your whiff punishment to a certain amount. It's good to see that you don't rely on pressing buttons too much with Phase and rather wait for the opponent to make the mistake.

However, to be more successful and stay at least a chance against an opponent who is familiar with his own and your character and knows what the guard button is, you still have to work a lot on your neutral game and your usage of Phase.

Currently, you are playing her more like you would any generic striker in the game, which is quite a normal thing if you are more used to those (I also did so the first time), but that way she's only half as good as she can actually be.

Except the air throw from her 4K launch, you do not make use of any of her teleport options, although these are the best way to get your damage very quickly. Therefore, I recommend that you take her to the lab or combo challenge and learn more about when you can teleport from what.

You should also try to mix up your offensive game a bit more. Two of three times, you will respond with 6PP, which is your major tool for counterpoking but only as long your opponent is not expecting it and/or does not know how to deal with it. Beside the fact hat you can always be thrown when it's getting blocked, you might also face players who are able to react to the initial stun from 6P and do a just frame frame low hold to avoid the second hit or go for a low crush once they've blocked the frist. You will also hit a wall with this as soon as you play against someone who's using a character with mid parries.

In any case, I'm sure you'll notice this and other things with time if you keep playing opponents that are on the same level as you or above (the latter one is what really helps you to improve), so keep it up!

And don't bother about how active this thread or forum looks, if you feel like you want to share some experience or you want to have some feedback, just post it and I'm sure someone will respond to it.

 

[ninjaguy446]

@ShinMaruku I only got to watch your second video, but basically everything ToKyo said. Just one other thing, you were very predictable throughout the whole match. You kept doing the same setup over and over, 6PP 4K 6PK Tenfu T. You have to mix everything up if you want to win. I'd highly recommend against doing 6PP ever. 6P is good to get a CH stun started. Use move like PPP Chifu, P6P/Chifu, P+K/Chifu, 3P Chifu, 66K Tenfu, etc. Use moves like that to extend stun. For launcher, don't always do 4K. Use 33K too and go for the CB! sometimes too.