Lets be serious here Alpha-152 needs to be banned.

[Brute]

If we're going to talk about throws let's look at Tina whose 364T is nearly twice as fast as Alpha's 236236T, much harder to see coming, and does 130 damage.

Which is still less than Alpha's throw. In order to get the bonus damage, you must get it on HiC (since it adds more than +50% over the NH version). Thus, the extra execution frames aren't all that big of a deal because you don't "see a throw coming" on HiC. If you do and you go for a hold anyway, you're an idiot. Alpha has better strings and speed to bait out these HiC opportunities, as you pointed out.
But most importantly, I never said: "Tina has no guaranteed damage," like you just said for Alpha.

Bottom line: Alpha has no defense.

Super-fast jab, ability to parry all mids, some brutal crushes, a plethora of OHs, safer strings than many characters and excessive string delays allow your offense to work as your defense.

If you can't take advantage of that fact, you only have yourself to blame. But I understand it's much easier to blame the character

How very condescending.

 

[MasterHavik]

One thing about Alpha that isn't right is that her idle hitbox sometimes avoids my highs. I'm in the lab with her as the dummy and my highs are sometime missing. That's not good.

Super-fast jab, ability to parry all mids, some brutal crushes, a plethora of OHs, safer strings than many characters and excessive string delays allow your offense to work as your defense.

Those are pretty op things...wait....

super-fast jab...I'm zack I can hold or block you. If I block I know that shit unsafe because alpha throwing punches isn't safe and I throw you.
She wants to parry mids? I'm Zack I can start high or start low if she it she gets thrown if i throw a mid she parries i free cancel and recover in time to defend myself.
she ohs that you can crouch...if you're zack you can duck and punish the whiff OH.
safer strings and string delay...geez my man zack can do the same and it can land to a nasty vortex of you get hit everywhere. i also think Rachel or momo would like to have a word with alpha on safe strings and delays.

listen the only bs part about alpha is her stupid idle hitbox and 7k jailing you...all this other stuff is coming from not playing the mu and not realizing ss exists.

 

[StrikerSashi]

Alpha's does more damage, though, and doesn't require a full crouch AND a high counter.

 

[MasterHavik]

Alpha's does more damage, though, and doesn't require a full crouch AND a high counter.

Well I cant' speak for everyone. But genfu and the grapplers may say otherwise. Tina can do crazy damage on NH.

 

[StrikerSashi]

I'm saying her throw. It does way more damage. Plus, Tina's 364T will always take more time 'cause it's so unlikely that someone will hold mid while you're in a crouching state, 'cause her crouching lows don't guarantee any mids.

 

[MasterHavik]

I'm saying her throw. It does way more damage. Plus, Tina's 364T will always take more time 'cause it's so unlikely that someone will hold mid while you're in a crouching state, 'cause her crouching lows don't guarantee any mids.

people mid from the fear of being juggle it will happen. But anyways the throw you speak is called crush, right?

 

[StrikerSashi]

If you critical hold, you screwed up and it doesn't matter how fast the throw is, 'cause if it's baited, you're gonna get thrown.

And the throw is whatever her 149 HiC 236236T is.

 

[MasterHavik]

If you critical hold, you screwed up and it doesn't matter how fast the throw is, 'cause if it's baited, you're gonna get thrown.

And the throw is whatever her 149 HiC 236236T is.

oh well crush CH blow damage is your fault for missing a hold. The jumping one is deabteable though.

 

[Raansu]

If we're going to talk about throws let's look at Tina whose 364T is nearly twice as fast as Alpha's 236236T, much harder to see coming, and does 130 damage. Yes, Alpha has better strings, but when you start hitting her you don't have to worry about counters. When you start hitting Tina you have to worry about a good chunk of your lifebar disappearing suddenly.

And I'll just leave with this. You know how everyone whined about Helena's force tech? How everyone is currently whining about Rachel's? When you use Alpha, not just those two but every character gets a force tech on you every time. If people knew how to capitalize on that, they wouldn't be whining about Alpha.

Bottom line: Alpha has no defense. If you can't take advantage of that fact, you only have yourself to blame. But I understand it's much easier to blame the character

Tina is also a grappler, she should have throws like that. Alpha is extremely safe, extremely fast and has zero issues getting in. The threat of 70% health should not be on both juggling and throwing options for a character like that. Her holds doing zero damage is hardly a negative. It still resets the situation and puts her at neutral...a character that has every advantage is now back at neutral. Her holds also get her away from the wall.

Also, I'm still waiting on you to enlighten me on this so called Rachel combo.

 

[XxSakuraLuvaxX]

...Whenever I play her no matter who I'm using, if I space out well in a large stage she's pretty easy.. If she's in BT somehow, I just wait for the 7k. What does she have, 9/13/12? Kasumi beats her mid's speed. Never randomly poke mid a lot, we all know she'll just parry. Good reaction time is a pretty general rule for all characters, but if you're good with guessing throws, not span holding and ducking throws, it's fine. Away from GB, the rest of her is pretty unsafe. (right?) Just because some alpha uses the float cancel to avoid an attack doesn't mean it'll be perfectly timed every time.

All of that aside, most people can't use her/it to her full potential. If anything I'm pretty sure I fought calibur blades' jelly b4.

 

[StrikerSashi]

She'll never finish her strings, though, so even if she's negative, she's not really unsafe.

 

[Dutch Samurai]

LOL this is why I can't stand complainers. He just raped that jello. LMAO
If RIkuto can do it, anybody can.... or can they?

But what's interesting is that Rikuto is one of the biggest proponent's for banning her. I don't understand it... Did U really buff her that much from vanilla?

Which is still less than Alpha's throw. In order to get the bonus damage, you must get it on HiC (since it adds more than +50% over the NH version). Thus, the extra execution frames aren't all that big of a deal because you don't "see a throw coming" on HiC. If you do and you go for a hold anyway, you're an idiot. Alpha has better strings and speed to bait out these HiC opportunities, as you pointed out.
But most importantly, I never said: "Tina has no guaranteed damage," like you just said for Alpha.

Not to mention that it would seem kind of hard to pull off Tina's 364T on a single HiC unless you're fairly certain when your opponent will counter. And the timing would need to be impeccable. It would seem to work better on opponents who, for whatever reason, spam high counters, but then they're morons for doing that anyway, and would deserve to get hit with multiple 130 damage throws.

 

[Raansu]

But what's interesting is that Rikuto is one of the biggest proponent's for banning her. I don't understand it... Did U really buff her that much from vanilla?

She's significantly better.

 

[Dutch Samurai]

She's significantly better.

But better to the point of being unfair?

 

[Jean Massue]

The Rachel combo I'm talking about is totally guaranteed on fast SE, no one's ever broken it.

And while I'm here I'm going to go over a few of Alpha's weaknesses, even though I know they'll be ignored

- Nothing guaranteed
- Zero damage from counters
- No wake up kicks
- No NH launcher
- Featherweight

These facts only apply to Alpha and add up to a character that's one huge gamble. I'm willing to bet you won't see someone gamble on Alpha at TFC or any major. At most you will see someone take her out for a match or two

Again, it's silly to ban a character that isn't even dominating the scene. What are you accomplishing? It just makes the community look weak.

Then again Hilde was banned in SC IV and didn't win any majors. Its not a question of win/lost ratio or sucess in tourney and in my opinion its not even a question of being absolutely broken strong. Its a question of being broken as a character and breaking a game to a ridiculous amount of gambling with no cue as to what you should bet on. Personnaly i think that Alpha simply breaks and changes the game and she should get a complete remodeling of her mechanics.
Hence i vote BAN!

 

[Codemaster92163]

How does she break the game though? What does she do that's game breaking? She doesn't even have a "plethora" of OHs. She has 2, one being and the other , both of which can be seen and punished.

Parries are only good outside of stun. As soon as she's hit, she has to counter, which in her case is terrible any way you look at it.

She's now in a special weight class that lets most characters net a decent amount of extra damage against her if she messes up.

Her strings aren't safe. It's the mix-up that makes it seem that way. Most of her strings, if finished, can either be throw punished or have her FLT options beaten out with a jab.

She only has about 5 strings that she can use anyways. strings, stings, strings, strings, and strings. Each of which have easy-seen parts in which they can be crushed or sidestepped.

And again, no wake-up kicks. Everyone always says that the kicks are what really stop an opponent from always staying on the offensive, so since she has none, she's always on the defensive until she guesses correctly. In all, she has to make a lot more proper reads than the opponent, and while her throws are certainly powerful, her only fast attacks are and . Everything else is 13+, which most characters match themselves.

To say it once more, I still feel that her B.U.R.S.T. and throws needs to be nerfed. Everyone agrees on this. But strong throws (along with strong but easily seen OH's) shouldn't warrant a ban on the character. She does not break the game, nor disrupt the general ethos of the game, so why should she be removed? Everything she has in her offensive arsenal is countered through her lack of defensive tools.

 

[KingGhidorah]

OK, so this is the only time I am going to say this; Alpha doesn't need to be banned. As it stands she really is in no position to gain a thing against pretty much the entire cast. I've been using her to see what exactly she had to bring to the table, what does she bring? Nothing but two strong throws that are easily read like the rest of her move list. She's ridiculously unsafe and gamble heavy.

Lets all drop this foolish banning garbage lingo and familiarize ourselves with what it is we face. Only then can we move forth as players and grow.

 

[MasterHavik]

well folks 7k does jail.

 

[Codemaster92163]

well folks 7k does jail.

So this means she's automatically broken?

 

[MasterHavik]

So this means she's automatically broken?

Well you can't hold it, punish it, or beat it, and it's safe.