Ask Team NINJA

[LivingShadow]

1|Are there any plans to make Evasion part of the battle system in future titles? It could be implemented as part of the counter system [i.e. also done with the Hold button]. In the same vein as the current counter system, different characters will have different ways of evading. As an example: Ayane and Tina are two characters that already incorporate "rolling" into their fighting. They could therefore use evasive rolls. These rolls would still be subject to the same rules as they currently are i.e they would still be punishable. These types of moves would serve various purposes such as positioning, setup and of course evasion.

Ayane has a lot more than rolling, Kasumi has teleports, and Hitomi has a wall jump. I'm all for having increased movement options in the game, but the only issue would be how to keep that balanced per character.

As for Parries vs counters. I'm fine either way parries to shift the game state or counters to reset it. I don't know about the rest of the higher level players but for me the tension stays up when someone is knocked down because that's the time when mixups occur.

 

[Raansu]

I'd prefer if parries stayed unique to specific characters. One of the problems with doa4 is it already has too many universal tools. Parries were one of the few things left that made characters unique. I'd like to see doa5 make more unique tools for characters instead of everything being universal. For example, I'd like to see offensive holds be more unique to grappler characters instead of it being a universal tool.

 

[LivingShadow]

For example, I'd like to see offensive holds be more unique to grappler characters instead of it being a universal tool.

The only exception to that would be Ayane with her bt 6

 

[OSTCarmine]

Ayane has a lot more than rolling, Kasumi has teleports, and Hitomi has a wall jump. I'm all for having increased movement options in the game, but the only issue would be how to keep that balanced per character.

As for Parries vs counters. I'm fine either way parries to shift the game state or counters to reset it. I don't know about the rest of the higher level players but for me the tension stays up when someone is knocked down because that's the time when mixups occur.

That is actually something that I should have elaborated on more. A lot of characters already have moves that carry characteristics similar to the ones I was referring to. They are just not fully implemented yet. Take Kasumi and her teleports. TN could make it so that players have a choice to follow up the Teleport with either Hoshinpo [as it is currently done] or with something else like her backflip. That way you could use the Teleport to launch a counter-attack OR to make some space between you and your op. This simple fix allows for what is essentially a Parry to be converted into either a Counter or an Evasion

 

[LivingShadow]

That is something that I could get behind. Something like 4 being a parry then once they hit the parry you could input for a counter or for a teleport or something.

 

[OSTCarmine]

I'd prefer if parries stayed unique to specific characters. One of the problems with doa4 is it already has too many universal tools. Parries were one of the few things left that made characters unique. I'd like to see doa5 make more unique tools for characters instead of everything being universal. For example, I'd like to see offensive holds be more unique to grappler characters instead of it being a universal tool.

I agree with you on that FULLY. The only problem that arises is that sometimes those unique traits and abilities tend to be underdeveloped if they are not a core part of that character's play style. Brad, for example, cannot play without his "Lying down like a jackass" abilities. On the other hand Zack's ducking and weaving stunts are underused because there simply was not enough attention paid to these small things.

 

[virtuaPAI]

I'd prefer if parries stayed unique to specific characters. One of the problems with doa4 is it already has too many universal tools. Parries were one of the few things left that made characters unique. I'd like to see doa5 make more unique tools for characters instead of everything being universal. For example, I'd like to see offensive holds be more unique to grappler characters instead of it being a universal tool.

-I agree. maybe they can add more sabaki's into the game. Different properties depending on the character using it. Some Characters could probably get a 2in1 that leads into a setup(for potentially more damage than your every day DH), Some can lead into special stumbles that can only be SE out of, or a character can have a plethora of them(with weak DH's) that are broken down into high/mid/low....forcing you to (change your play style)use more throws against him/her. Or they can give a character fast catch throws (10-14 frames), with low damage output(20-35pts) that have 50/50 setup properties that can have big damage potential. They can give a character attacks that cause the opponent to go into another stance (back turned or to the side) like :Bradwong:'s Bt . However, in these situations the opponent is forced into a 50/50 that favors the player in advantage. They can also beef up grapplers by altering their combo-throws. Each grappler can have multiple branching paths to each linking section of a combo throw(with their own ending directional command). It should be up to the escapee to figure out which branching throw is going to be used, and use the last direction+. Ex. lets say has a combo throw that starts with + that can be linked with either + or +. It will be up to the escapee to use either + or + to escape the throw.

 

[OSTCarmine]

They can also beef up grapplers by altering their combo-throws. Each grappler can have multiple branching paths to each linking section of a combo throw(with their own ending directional command). It should be up to the escapee to figure out which branching throw is going to be used, and use the last direction+. Ex. lets say has a combo throw that starts with + that can be linked with either + or +. It will be up to the escapee to use either + or + to escape the throw.

This may turn grapplers into the next Ninjas lol. besides, the four major Grapplers are pretty well defined as it is, AND all of them already have multiple-ending throws if memory serves.
Still, it would be nice if Bass had more options out of his Grab and Shove moves. His close range game is SWEET so those types of moves that force the opponent into undesirable positions are definitely welcome.

 

[Raansu]

I agree with you on that FULLY. The only problem that arises is that sometimes those unique traits and abilities tend to be underdeveloped if they are not a core part of that character's play style. Brad, for example, cannot play without his "Lying down like a jackass" abilities. On the other hand Zack's ducking and weaving stunts are underused because there simply was not enough attention paid to these small things.

Brad is...well he's Brad lol, he needs A LOT of work done, and I'd love to see him move up the tier list in doa5 and Zack's ducking and weaving I can't really comment on as I never really played Zack, and outside of HighGuy, I never saw anyone use him often or even properly, but HighGuy used the weaving pretty well. My previous post was more of a basic example though. Overall I'd like to see every character get something unique and for doa5 to move away from having so many universal tools that existed in doa4.

 

[Raansu]

This may turn grapplers into the next Ninjas lol. besides, the four major Grapplers are pretty well defined as it is, AND all of them already have multiple-ending throws if memory serves.
Still, it would be nice if Bass had more options out of his Grab and Shove moves. His close range game is SWEET so those types of moves that force the opponent into undesirable positions are definitely welcome.

Nah, not even close. His example is still giving you an option to break out of the throw (and is quite similar to VF), but adding 2 different levels to give the grappler more options to gain some form of advantage; unlike Ryu's Izuna that's completely unbreakable and does more damage than pretty much the entire cast. In doa4, the grapplers that come even close to the Izuna are all breakable.

 

[Black Dragon]

Personally, I think that unless there are multiple paths mid-combo, throw combos shouldn't be breakable.

 

[Raansu]

Personally, I think that unless there are multiple paths mid-combo, throw combos shouldn't be breakable.

That's what VP is suggesting.

 

[virtuaPAI]

That's what VP is suggesting.

-Lol, I like you Raansu. You get exactly what I am saying. I am not suggesting they make the grapplers Ninja like, but give them their due. They specialize in grappling techniques for goodness sakes. By right they should have advantages over non grappling opponents. IMO, it is perfectly fair for their opponents having to work harder to break their throws(while possessing significantly more throwing options, setups and damage output) than the others...while making it fair. In all reality, Hayabusa should have always been included in the Grappling class, but it escapes me why he never was. The only thing they have to do to fix Busa's inzuna drop, is by allowing the opponent to escape the first part. It is only fair considering he can both complete the throw or follow-up with a juggle. If you guess wrong than you lose....makes perfect sense to me. Not as if he do not have any other tools to utilize.

 

[Raansu]

-Lol, I like you Raansu. You get exactly what I am saying. I am not suggesting they make the grapplers Ninja like, but give them their due. They specialize in grappling techniques for goodness sakes. By right they should have advantages over non grappling opponents. IMO, it is perfectly fair for their opponents having to work harder to break their throws(while possessing significantly more throwing options, setups and damage output) than the others...while making it fair. In all reality, Hayabusa should have always been included in the Grappling class, but it escapes me why he never was. The only thing they have to do to fix Busa's inzuna drop, is by allowing the opponent to escape the first part. It is only fair considering he can both complete the throw or follow-up with a juggle. If you guess wrong than you lose....makes perfect sense to me. Not as if he do not have any other tools to utilize.

That would be amazing if they did that. I mean, its not like he doesnt have 5 billion other ways to get an izuna drop heh.

 

[OSTCarmine]

The only thing they have to do to fix Busa's inzuna drop, is by allowing the opponent to escape the first part. It is only fair considering he can both complete the throw or follow-up with a juggle.

This wont be as easy as you may think. 1st of all the Counter version of it can obviously not be escaped on the first stage of the throw. The second stage, even if escaped, will leave both ryu AND the thrown opponent 12ft in the air so now...
The Throw version has the exact same issue. The only way for this to be done is to make ALL throws escapable, on the initial hit of those throws.
One final note - I LOVE the Izuna! I cheer it on whether im the little spoon or the big one[busa lol] I never though it was an unfair move. thats just IMO

 

[Allan Paris]

This wont be as easy as you may think. 1st of all the Counter version of it can obviously not be escaped on the first stage of the throw. The second stage, even if escaped, will leave both ryu AND the thrown opponent 12ft in the air so now...
The Throw version has the exact same issue. The only way for this to be done is to make ALL throws escapable, on the initial hit of those throws.
One final note - I LOVE the Izuna! I cheer it on whether im the little spoon or the big one[busa lol] I never though it was an unfair move. thats just IMO

Huh?!

The hold is a hold. The throw on the other hand should be breakable. The hold animation, Ryu puts you into the air instantly, except his low punch hold. The throw he grabs you with one hand and with the other he punches/knocks you up. What VP is saying, is that you should be able to break away from the hand that grabs your head before you get tossed. Which is very reasonable since Ryu can get that same situation out of 3 different holds, which can happen instantly.

 

[Raansu]

This wont be as easy as you may think. 1st of all the Counter version of it can obviously not be escaped on the first stage of the throw. The second stage, even if escaped, will leave both ryu AND the thrown opponent 12ft in the air so now...
The Throw version has the exact same issue. The only way for this to be done is to make ALL throws escapable, on the initial hit of those throws.
One final note - I LOVE the Izuna! I cheer it on whether im the little spoon or the big one[busa lol] I never though it was an unfair move. thats just IMO

He's only suggesting the first part of the throw version to at least breakable. This is a reasonable suggestion given that as you said, he has the option to do the Izuna in several other situations, which may change from what we have seen in the doa5 video as we saw Ryu do a high hold at two different parts of the video, and the second time he held high he did not do an izuna drop, which suggests that they may have changed it to an advanced hold or possibly a just frame hold.

 

[OSTCarmine]

Huh?!

The hold is a hold. The throw on the other hand should be breakable. The hold animation, Ryu puts you into the air instantly, except his low punch hold. The throw he grabs you with one hand and with the other he punches/knocks you up. What VP is saying, is that you should be able to break away from the hand that grabs your head before you get tossed. Which is very reasonable since Ryu can get that same situation out of 3 different holds, which can happen instantly.

lol i get what you are saying, and IM saying that somebody else already brought this up. If ALL throws become escapable from first contact, then your argument is valid. Making ONLY Busa suffer this fate is not cool. As for the thing with the Hold, some people have multiple stages in their holds [Tina's ] and those are escapable. Others are not. Thats just the way DOA goes

 

[OSTCarmine]

He's only suggesting the first part of the throw version to at least breakable. This is a reasonable suggestion given that as you said, he has the option to do the Izuna in several other situations, which may change from what we have seen in the doa5 video as we saw Ryu do a high hold at two different parts of the video, and the second time he held high he did not do an izuna drop, which suggests that they may have changed it to an advanced hold or possibly a just frame hold.

I saw that too! Maybe he now only does Izuna for 1 of his holds. Best decision imo.
The whole thing with the interactive environs actually looks GOOD. It flows well with the pacing of the game, without overwhelming any other aspect of the fight. I hope the "cliffhanger" parts can go both ways i.e Hayate can knock Busa off, or Busa can pull Hayate over the edge. As for the EX moves [im just gonna call them that until we know whats what] I just hope they balance damage well.

 

[Raansu]

lol i get what you are saying, and IM saying that somebody else already brought this up. If ALL throws become escapable from first contact, then your argument is valid. Making ONLY Busa suffer this fate is not cool. As for the thing with the Hold, some people have multiple stages in their holds [Tina's ] and those are escapable. Others are not. Thats just the way DOA goes

-Ya because a move that's capable of being done on 3 different hold levels an attack and a throw, that is unbreakable, and can do up to 152 damage... Ya he's really going to suffer by having his throw version possibly being breakable in the first part of the throw.

-This is a HORRIBLE mindset. New game, new opportunities to improve this game. Saying "thats just how the game plays" and not talking about possible improvements and balancing in the game is just asking for another horrible game like DoA4. This is not the kind of mindset TN needs to see when they look for feedback or suggestions.