Ask Team NINJA

[Raansu]

I saw that too! Maybe he now only does Izuna for 1 of his holds. Best decision imo.
The whole thing with the interactive environs actually looks GOOD. It flows well with the pacing of the game, without overwhelming any other aspect of the fight. I hope the "cliffhanger" parts can go both ways i.e Hayate can knock Busa off, or Busa can pull Hayate over the edge. As for the EX moves [im just gonna call them that until we know whats what] I just hope they balance damage well.

http://twitter.com/#!/TeamNINJAStudio

- They said on their twitter that theres some gameplay during that scene thats not shown. I'm really not fond of the idea of having some kind of coutner to falling off the ledge. The way I see it right now, people are just not going to attempt to knock their opponent off the ledge if theres a chance they could fall off themselves. Risk/reward simply won't seem worth it. I'll wait until I see more on the mechanic, but until then, thats how I feel about the idea.

As mentioned in TN's twitter page, they are called power blows for now.

 

[Allan Paris]

lol i get what you are saying, and IM saying that somebody else already brought this up. If ALL throws become escapable from first contact, then your argument is valid. Making ONLY Busa suffer this fate is not cool. As for the thing with the Hold, some people have multiple stages in their holds [Tina's ] and those are escapable. Others are not. Thats just the way DOA goes

Now I have to ask, how good is your understanding of the game, DOA4 in particular?

Ryu can perform the Izuna drop out of 5 different situations, 3 of them being holds (which can happen at 0i), a 12i throw, and then from . Nerfing 1 of that man's options does not hurt or hinder Ryu in any way possible. He will still be a ridiculous character in DOA4. Going by his holds in the trailer it seems that TN have fixed his godlyness and, I am fine with the idea that his Izuna drop holds may be advanced holds, now. It would make since given the situations that he is granted from holds coming out instantly.

We are not talking about Tina but, since you brought her up. Tina can't take damn near half life from a juggle off that hold nor can see she if she completes that hold. That goes the same for the other characters that have breakable holds. For Bayman or Lei Fang, they have to pull off advanced holds to get the damage that Ryu can get from just plain old holding. Now, how is that cool seeing as one of them is a grappler and Ryu is clearly not?

 

[OSTCarmine]

-Ya because a move that's capable of being done on 3 different hold levels an attack and a throw, that is unbreakable, and can do up to 152 damage... Ya he's really going to suffer by having his throw version possibly being breakable in the first part of the throw.

-This is a HORRIBLE mindset. New game, new opportunities to improve this game. Saying "thats just how the game plays" and not talking about possible improvements and balancing in the game is just asking for another horrible game like DoA4. This is not the kind of mindset TN needs to see when they look for feedback or suggestions.

lmao dude leave my mindset alone! y would you say something like that about my mindset?

You guys bring up solid points, really you do. My ONLY problem is that NO other throw [besides ] is escapable off the first hit. Making an exception for Busa because he can do the Izuna 5 other ways is ONE way to fix it. But probably not the BEST way. Another fix to the issue is to make all throws escapable on 1st contact. The final option is to give Busa fewer ways to get his Izuna on.

 

[OSTCarmine]

Now I have to ask, how good is your understanding of the game, DOA4 in particular?

Ryu can perform the Izuna drop out of 5 different situations, 3 of them being holds (which can happen at 0i), a 12i throw, and then from . Nerfing 1 of that man's options does not hurt or hinder Ryu in any way possible. He will still be a ridiculous character in DOA4. Going by his holds in the trailer it seems that TN have fixed his godlyness and, I am fine with the idea that his Izuna drop holds may be advanced holds, now. It would make since given the situations that he is granted from holds coming out instantly.

We are not talking about Tina but, since you brought her up. Tina can't take damn near half life from a juggle off that hold nor can see she if she completes that hold. That goes the same for the other characters that have breakable holds. For Bayman or Lei Fang, they have to pull off advanced holds to get the damage that Ryu can get from just plain old holding. Now, how is that cool seeing as one of them is a grappler and Ryu is clearly not?

It would seem I have managed to piss some people off lol. Hey man, dont question my knowledge of DOA.
Nobody seems to understand my view on this at all. Making Ryu's Izuna escapable on 1st contact is not nerfing his moveset. Its nerfing his mechanics. No other characters get their mechanics touched except for Ryu? Im sorry, but that is not FAIR. The other ways you mentioned are all GOOD. I stand behind you fully [no homo] on those points. But my main point stands - If Izuna [throw] is made escapable on 1st contact, ALL throws must be made the same.

 

[Matt Ponton]

I think everyone is in agreement that a throw break system needs to be implemented in general, not just a combo throw, and definitely not only combo throws from the grapplers.

 

[Rikuto]

I would like throw breaks in the game, actually.

Directional based ones, like in VF.

 

[Raansu]

It would seem I have managed to piss some people off lol. Hey man, dont question my knowledge of DOA.
Nobody seems to understand my view on this at all. Making Ryu's Izuna escapable on 1st contact is not nerfing his moveset. Its nerfing his mechanics. No other characters get their mechanics touched except for Ryu? Im sorry, but that is not FAIR. The other ways you mentioned are all GOOD. I stand behind you fully [no homo] on those points. But my main point stands - If Izuna [throw] is made escapable on 1st contact, ALL throws must be made the same.

Not really, no. We are not saying that only Ryu should be adjusted either. He just sort of stands out because of how many more advantages he has over the entire cast. From a balance perspective, there is nothing wrong with making the initial part of the Izuna throw breakable. Think of it this way. Much of the combo throws in doa are currently already breakable (especially the grapplers). Why is it that you think its unfair for a non grappler to have a combo throw that does just as much damage as a grapplers combo throw, but be completely unbreakable? Think outside the box of throws, and look at it more of a balancing perspective of a character that can use said tool in 4 other situations.

 

[OSTCarmine]

well it seems like we are all finally on the same page lol. Im all for a Throw break system. I believe it can add alot more depth to the gameplay, and also balance it out alot more for certain characters. I would also like to see the Counter system get a MAJOR upgrade. Defensive holds should be given a major overhaul. Not ALL Counters need to be Holds, DOA1 used to have Parries and TN could also take this chance to put some serious though into evasion. The button can be used for so much more than just spamming Holds. Back in the day [older games, especially DOA1] pulling off a proper hold was something mostly GOOD players would do. TN decided to make Holds more accessible and look what happened. So.... this brings us right back to my very first post in this thread and the two questions I asked there. Full circle
ps - this was quite a fun argument for me, I especially enjoyed the part where Raansu said my mindset sucked lol

 

[Raansu]

Parries/Holds, this doesnt adjust the issue of the overall system, which is people spamming them. You guys are asking for an option that essentially does the same thing. The 4 point hold system overall is fine, it just needs to be adjusted in away that limits it.

And yes, what you said about "that's just how doa is" is a terrible mindset to have right now. At that point you are just settling for whatever TN decides to give us.

 

[Rikuto]

As I've said before, I can live with a 4 point system if the active window is severely tightened up and the recovery window is expanded.

I just prefer the honesty that comes from 6 point. It's still way easier to use then anything out of tekken or VF.

I realize I'm in the minority on this, but a lot of that is simply because I already play 6-point with bayman and there are not a lot of serious bayman/leifang players to reinforce my position. Nobody knows just how viable it actually is until they try to use it...

 

[Raansu]

I agree, but I still don't think changing the inputs will fix the overall issue. Believe me, I agree with the 6 point holds to a point, but we need to get down to the basics here before we start worrying about inputs. Right now the suggestions being thrown around only add to the already over the top guessing game, and people will spam just as much regardless of inputs. We need to take a step back, ignore the inputs for a second and look at the very basic implementation of holds and how they work within critical states, the recovery time, and during what situations can they be allowed to be used. If the hold still works like it does in doa4, what good is more inputs going to do when they can hold out of every situation? TN needs to look at making the tool more of a tool that has higher risks and less of a tool that people just throw out without really having any fear of the consequences.

 

[OSTCarmine]

T

Parries/Holds, this doesnt adjust the issue of the overall system, which is people spamming them. You guys are asking for an option that essentially does the same thing. The 4 point hold system overall is fine, it just needs to be adjusted in away that limits it.

And yes, what you said about "that's just how doa is" is a terrible mindset to have right now. At that point you are just settling for whatever TN decides to give us.

1|Adjustment to the frames for the Counter system are made at almost every opportunity. TN has been trying to balance it from the very 1st game. For this reason I fully expect them to do it again for DOA5 and anything after that, until they get it to a point where everybody agrees. That is why Im not even bothering with that part of the Counter system for now, I KNOW that they are working on it.
2|Parries and Holds are not the same. If you play with characters that have Parries you can clearly see the advantages. I have explained my thoughts on this already.
3|"Thats just the way it goes" is a very realistic, albeit clearly unpopular mindset. At the end of the day it is still TN that decides what goes into DOA. Most of the people on this forum have an extensive background with DOA, and our feedback gives TN a good indication of the technical aspects that DOA still needs to sharpen up. But DOA has to be sold to more than just us, and those people out there... they LIKE the stupid things we want to get fixed. They dont wanna bother learning new mechanics like Sidestepping or Throw evasion. Worst of all, there are more of them than there are of us. Im a loyal fan of DOA, I will buy DOA5 and literally CRY tears of joy if I find that TN has decided to address our concerns. I am, however, prepared for the reality of the matter. DOA NEEDS a bigger fanbase. DOA DESERVES a bigger fanbase. TN will need to make a few "smart business choices" for that to happen, and listening to all the great ideas in the forum[and im serious about this, I love most of the ideas presented here] may not fall into that plan

 

[Rikuto]

The casual people out there will almost certainly buy the game regardless of what changes are made to it though, Carmine. The hardcore audience, however, is the one that team ninja has to win over. We have more then enough other games to play right now, and certainly don't have to buy DOA 5 if we don't want to.

The casual will simply be drawn in by the explosions, style, and women. This will be a must-buy for many of them, regardless of system changes.

It behooves them to listen to our concerns, because we are the only way the games population will truly grow.

 

[Raansu]

1|Adjustment to the frames for the Counter system are made at almost every opportunity. TN has been trying to balance it from the very 1st game. For this reason I fully expect them to do it again for DOA5 and anything after that, until they get it to a point where everybody agrees. That is why Im not even bothering with that part of the Counter system for now, I KNOW that they are working on it.

Erm... Defensive holds have had the same frame data since doa2 which is 0(22)8 and 0(22)5. DoAD was the first to change the actual frames of a defensive hold, and even then they only changed it by a few frames.

And I am talking more than just frame data for defensive holds. I'm going back to doa3.1 where characters had frame advantage to work around the defensive hold, and there were several situations that you could not do a defensive hold (Ex: Jane Lee's 66k after his dragon gunner in doa3.1)

2|Parries and Holds are not the same. If you play with characters that have Parries you can clearly see the advantages. I have explained my thoughts on this already.

Essentially yes, they are the same. It's a defensive tool that people will use in the same way that people will use defensive holds. Parries need to stay unique to certain characters. Again, as I said before, we need to take a step back a bit on how we look at defensive holds. You guys are getting ahead of yourselves with certain ideas.

 

[OSTCarmine]

The casual people out there will almost certainly buy the game regardless of what changes are made to it though, Carmine. The hardcore audience, however, is the one that team ninja has to win over. We have more then enough other games to play right now, and certainly don't have to buy DOA 5 if we don't want to.

The casual will simply be drawn in by the explosions, style, and women. This will be a must-buy for many of them, regardless of system changes.

It behooves them to listen to our concerns, because we are the only way the games population will truly grow.

lol, pretty big word you got there bud *VOCAB-HI5*
People still have a shitty perception of DOA though. TN is definitely looking to fix that and up to this point in the franchise the explosions and boobs are still not explodey or booby enough to get us the top spot. I know TN is aiming for the top with each title, and Im just trying to consider this from that standpoint. But maybe you are right and I can be a bit more optimistic about how TN handles our feedback. The fact that mr Wah is setting up this feedback deal is good enough indication of that

 

[Rikuto]

Indeed they do have a shitty perception of the game. And they should, because it is what it is. People had a shitty perception of MK from MK4-8.

That's four terrible games in a row, with several spinoffs. then MK 9 came around and holy shit, what a magnificent game. Casuals and hardcore alike playing it.

DOA can do the same, and we should never settle for the bare minimum. We also should not have to wait for several game releases until they finally understand whats wrong with it.

Outstanding games sell.

 

[OSTCarmine]

Erm... Defensive holds have had the same frame data since doa2 which is 0(22)8 and 0(22)5. DoAD was the first to change the actual frames of a defensive hold, and even then they only changed it by a few frames.

And I am talking more than just frame data for defensive holds. I'm going back to doa3.1 where characters had frame advantage to work around the defensive hold, and there were several situations that you could not do a defensive hold (Ex: Jane Lee's 66k after his dragon gunner in doa3.1)



Essentially yes, they are the same. It's a defensive tool that people will use in the same way that people will use defensive holds. Parries need to stay unique to certain characters. Again, as I said before, we need to take a step back a bit on how we look at defensive holds. You guys are getting ahead of yourselves with certain ideas.

lol dude. You are the Sasuke to my Naruto!
on the 1st point - I DID say "almost every opportunity" lol [loophole] but to be honest I never really cared about this particular issue. Im actually shocked to hear that it has changed only three times in all these years. I agree with you on the Advantage revision though [i have been in agreement of this since you first brought it up actually]
on the second point - Initially EVERYONE had parries if i remember DOA1 correctly. Played it at the arcade, was very bad at it, was not paying attention to anything more complicated than actually managing to Izuna my friends [i was the only guy who could, im not bragging, im just saying how much we all sucked]. I liked parries back then. I dont like all the Holds we have now. I want parries to come back in a big way. And Parries and holds are not the same! Stop saying that! it hurts my feelings

 

[Raansu]

You're not getting what I'm saying. As a tool they will essentially be used by players in the same way and will just be spammed. I just don't see the point of going back to a universal parry. Defensive holds have been part of the series for over 10 years. Changing it now can potentially be bad for a lot of people. Again, character specific parries are great, and keep characters unique, but as a universal tool ,the defensive hold is fine, it just needs to be adjusted in how it works in the overall game. TN had the right idea with doa3.1, but they went backwards in doa4.

 

[Rikuto]

Bad players will always spam something regardless of a games depth.

let them spam it, as long as they fail.

 

[Raansu]

Good players spam that shit too. Ya know, like doing a hold, then throwing out a low hold before you can even react to the first hold, and then they recover before you and ya..you get the idea. This is why I want TN to seed feedback on other suggestions that I have been mentioning.