DOA6 Story Discussion

[DOAfanforever]

I still don't see the proof in Ayane getting the win. Team NINJA doesn't say anywhere that she won the tournament to my knowledge. Not in the lore, not pre-DOAD... literally nowhere does it say whoever slays the boss wins the tournament and it is fan theory that Ayane won. They are just assuming because Kasumi and Ryu were written in as winners for slaying their perspective bosses that Ayane must be too, and it isn't exactly proof.

AND I wasn't mixing up the Itagaki narrative with DOAD. I was just further demonstrating the lack of proof that she won, even in that game, but I totally see where you're coming from because it doesn't help that Team NINJA cherry picked so many different topics from the Itagaki narrative and combined them with their own.

Then think about like this. Ayane was the main character in DOA 3, right? And in being the main, the story of that game resided to Ayane, not Zack.

We the players, see that she fought against her foes in DOA 3, and defeated, all of them, including ZACK, Hayate, and even Kasumi was defeated by Ayane in DOA 3. How can she do that if they never showed it? She made it all the way to the finals, right? There you go. (Where's my proof? The proof is in the game itself)

Zack on the other hand was NO protagonist in this game, or in any other DOA games. So it wouldn't make any sense at all for him to claim a tournament victory unless it was handed to him, which in this case, it was, just like how Helena won the 4th DOA tournament, but she gave it to Zack for saving her life. It's basically the same thing as to how he "clamed" the 3rd tournament victory.

You cannot be champion of any DOA tournament without beating the final boss of that said tournament, like Kasumi beating Raidou, and Ryu beating Bankotsubo. Ayane defeated Genra, so she's champion, no matter what some encyclopedia says.

Also, knowing the type of character Zack is, can you really imagine him fighting Genra in his Omega form and take that seriously? I know I can't.

 

[marussya]

The ending frustrated me, and the whole story feels dull and incomplete , maybe because of deleted scenes. Even in DOA5 for me story was more complete

 

[KwonJigglypuff]

i didn't read all the epic lore arguing, but i thought helena won and gave the prize money to zack?

Okay, here is my opinion:

1. Raidou willingly took part in the first tournament as Donovan's bodyguard
FINAL = Kasumi (winner) vs Raidou (dead) > cash price given to Tina (third place)

2. Tengu willingly took part in the second tournament to create mayhem
FINAL = Ryu (winner) vs Tengu (dead) > cash price/Tengu's nose given to Gen Fu (third place)

3. Genra was under control of Donovan, nor did Ayane or Hayate took part in the tourney
FINAL = Zack (winner) vs Bass (second) > Hitomi finishes third place

4. Alpha-152 was in the basement but did not take part in the tournament
FINAL = Helena (winner) vs Christie (second) > cash price given to Zack for saving Helena

5. The ninjas did not take part in the tournament, nor did Rig actually*
FINAL = Jann Lee (winner) vs Hitomi (second) > runner-ups: Bass/Eliot (third place)

Spoiler

6. The ninjas did not take part in the tournament, nor did NiCO actually*
FINAL = Jann Lee (winner) vs Diego (second or tie) > runner-ups: Hitomi/Mila (third place)

The 6th tournament is actually very confusing. We know for sure that Jann Lee, Diego, Hitomi, Lei Fang, Mila, Bass and Tina were contestants.
We also know that Tina did not make TOP 8 (beaten by Eliot).

Note:
- "?????" could be Kokoro, La Mariposa, Brad, Bayman, Marie/Honoka (before the kidnapping) or Rig (before getting awaken)
- Honestly, it's REALLY a shame that Team Ninja did not promote La Mariposa's new costume in this tourney...! Cut content?
- "?????" could also be an upcoming DLC character (Gen Fu/Leon/newcomer). That's an option I'd really enjoy at this point !
- NiCO might be the only character who never took part in a tourney. For sure in DOA6, the ninjas, Ms. Helena & Zack didn't.
- I think it makes sense to have a rivalry in semi-finals between Jann Lee/Hitomi, and Diego/Mila, only in terms of story lore.

You guys want to get away with all that confusion ? I invite you to retweet this.

 

[AyanamiReign]

Spoiler

I came away from DOA6's story thinking Diego won the tournament since he was the last one standing, though rewatching it he falls over so I guess it's a draw? Official confirmation would be nice. I wish we got to play out all the tournament matches, it was a very obvious omission.

 

[Mayor-Of-Mustard]

Spoiler

I came away from DOA6's story thinking Diego won the tournament since he was the last one standing, though rewatching it he falls over so I guess it's a draw? Official confirmation would be nice. I wish we got to play out all the tournament matches, it was a very obvious omission.

Spoiler

omg yes! my headcanon now

 

[deathofaninja]

Then think about like this. Ayane was the main character in DOA 3, right? And in being the main, the story of that game resided to Ayane, not Zack.

We the players, see that she fought against her foes in DOA 3, and defeated, all of them, including ZACK, Hayate, and even Kasumi was defeated by Ayane in DOA 3. How can she do that if they never showed it? She made it all the way to the finals, right? There you go. (Where's my proof? The proof is in the game itself)

Zack on the other hand was NO protagonist in this game, or in any other DOA games. So it wouldn't make any sense at all for him to claim a tournament victory unless it was handed to him, which in this case, it was, just like how Helena won the 4th DOA tournament, but she gave it to Zack for saving her life. It's basically the same thing as to how he "clamed" the 3rd tournament victory.

You cannot be champion of any DOA tournament without beating the final boss of that said tournament, like Kasumi beating Raidou, and Ryu beating Bankotsubo. Ayane defeated Genra, so she's champion, no matter what some encyclopedia says.

Also, knowing the type of character Zack is, can you really imagine him fighting Genra in his Omega form and take that seriously? I know I can't.

Do you have proof that she defeats them in the game itself? As far as I could tell battles were randomly generated in DOA3 unless it was a cut scene. I don't know anywhere where Ayane is listed as the main character... and you don't have to be a protagonist to win a DOA tournament.

I have written text from Team NINJA that says Kasumi won DOA, Ryu won DOA2 and Zack won DOA3. Point me to anything where Team NINJA says Ayane won and not a fan and I will happily believe it.

 

[KwonJigglypuff]

Do you have proof that she defeats them in the game itself? As far as I could tell battles were randomly generated in DOA3 unless it was a cut scene. I don't know anywhere where Ayane is listed as the main character... and you don't have to be a protagonist to win a DOA tournament.

I have written text from Team NINJA that says Kasumi won DOA, Ryu won DOA2 and Zack won DOA3. Point me to anything where Team NINJA says Ayane won and not a fan and I will happily believe it.

Much agree.

DOAD actually explains Ayane and Hayate both weakened Genra, and... Ryu finished him. Ayane's scene was emotional, but she was not the winner.

 

[DOAfanforever]

Do you have proof that she defeats them in the game itself? As far as I could tell battles were randomly generated in DOA3 unless it was a cut scene. I don't know anywhere where Ayane is listed as the main character... and you don't have to be a protagonist to win a DOA tournament.

I have written text from Team NINJA that says Kasumi won DOA, Ryu won DOA2 and Zack won DOA3. Point me to anything where Team NINJA says Ayane won and not a fan and I will happily believe it.

This is to prove that Ayane is the main character of DOA 3
http://uk.xbox.gamespy.com/xbox/dead-or-alive-ultimate/516251p1.html

This is to prove she won the 3rd DOA tournament
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/doa4-delay-defended/1100-6140710/'

 

[KwonJigglypuff]

This is to prove that Ayane is the main character of DOA 3
http://uk.xbox.gamespy.com/xbox/dead-or-alive-ultimate/516251p1.html

This is to prove she won the 3rd DOA tournament
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/doa4-delay-defended/1100-6140710/'

This is solid, but unfortunately the story was rewritten in DOAD. Your article is almost 15 years from now.
Ayane is the main character of DOA3 for sure in terms of story impact, but she is not the winner. Sorry. I agree she deserved it.

 

[DOAfanforever]

This is solid, but unfortunately the story was rewritten in DOAD. Your article is almost 15 years from now.
Ayane is the main character of DOA3 for sure in terms of story impact, but she is not the winner. Sorry. I agree she deserved it.

New Team Ninja made so many changes in DOA Dimensions that was unnecessary.

-Kasumi being beaten by Hayate twice when they fought, even once knocking Kasumi out cold when he was Ein.

-Ayane being beaten by Hayate, when in DOA 3, Ayane defeated Hayate.

-Hayate beating Ryu Hayabusa twice (Can you believe that?)

-Kasumi needing Ryu's help to gain an advantage against Raidou.

-Ayane needing Ryu and Hayate's help to beat Genra

I can go on and on.

The only thing that matter is that I have solid evidence, and yes it's old, but it's there. As I said before, New Team Ninja changed A LOT of things in the lore of DOA today, and they want for the current fans of today to believe what they say. The writing in the history of DOA 3 and other DOA games is already set in stone, and the old fans of DOA already know who really won DOA 3 (Ayane). You wanted proof, and I gave you proof, and you said it yourself, New Team Ninja REWRITTEN the lore of DOA. Keyword being *REWRITTEN*.

Therefore, Ayane is the winner of DOA 3. Zack only received the prize money by default like he did when he saved Helena in DOA 4.

Once again, the fanboy in me got loose here, my apologies.

 

[candynarwhal]

I believe the conceit is that Ayane won the tournament since she was the one who defeated Genra, but Zack took the prize money as she had no interest in it herself.

At least, this was the case pre-DOAD - and I will happily ignore post-DOAD canon, myself...

 

[deathofaninja]

Hmm well I'll be. I'm also following what was said in the instruction manual of DOAX. I think it's fun to debate tournament winners, but that interview was a good find.

If that's the only proof. It's quite an essential interview to proving the win accurate and I will be saving it for my records.

The DOA lore found in 6 does cherry pick from both narratives... Not just DOAD btw to people that thought otherwise.

 

[DOAfanforever]

New Team Ninja made so many changes in DOA Dimensions that was unnecessary.

-Kasumi being beaten by Hayate twice when they fought, even once knocking Kasumi out cold when he was Ein.

-Ayane being beaten by Hayate, when in DOA 3, Ayane defeated Hayate.

-Hayate beating Ryu Hayabusa twice (Can you believe that?)

-Kasumi needing Ryu's help to gain an advantage against Raidou.

-Ayane needing Ryu and Hayate's help to beat Genra

I can go on and on.

The only thing that matter is that I have solid evidence, and yes it's old, but it's there. As I said before, New Team Ninja changed A LOT of things in the lore of DOA today, and they want for the current fans of today to believe what they say. The writing in the history of DOA 3 and other DOA games is already set in stone, and the old fans of DOA already know who really won DOA 3 (Ayane). You wanted proof, and I gave you proof, and you said it yourself, New Team Ninja REWRITTEN the lore of DOA. Keyword being *REWRITTEN*.

Therefore, Ayane is the winner of DOA 3. Zack only received the prize money by default like he did when he saved Helena in DOA 4.

Hmm well I'll be. I'm also following what was said in the instruction manual of DOAX. I think it's fun to debate tournament winners, but that interview was a good find.

If that's the only proof. It's quite an essential interview to proving the win accurate and I will be saving it for my records.

The DOA lore found in 6 does cherry pick from both narratives... Not just DOAD btw to people that thought otherwise.

Then it seems to me we're at a stalemate.

Old Team Ninja says it's Ayane, while New Team Ninja says Zack. You fought well.

 

[zoo]

I've never seen DOA lore debated this extensively, pretty entertaining

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

Hmm well I'll be. I'm also following what was said in the instruction manual of DOAX. I think it's fun to debate tournament winners, but that interview was a good find.

If that's the only proof. It's quite an essential interview to proving the win accurate and I will be saving it for my records.

The DOA lore found in 6 does cherry pick from both narratives... Not just DOAD btw to people that thought otherwise.

I said that awhile ago and he didn't listen to me...

 

[P2p1mbs]

When it comes to the DOAD retcons, I liked how it is setup that Ryu was now directly involved with killing the first 3 bosses since it establishes him as THE most powerful character in universe and that he could end Donovan's evil plans all by himself but isn't interested enough to do so since he clearly sees this as more of the problems of Hayate and his clan (note how in 5, he beats up Hayate and calls him a failure for constantly failing to stop Donovan).

I DONT like, however that they seemed to make Genra's death a combined effort between Ayane, Hayate and Ryu since it reduces the impact of Ayane being forced to kill her adoptive father, especially since her ending from 3 where she burned his body is still canon.

I personally interpret the 3rd chapter of DOAD (and by extension DOA3's main story) as Ayane being the one to make the killing blow to Genra. As far as who won the 3rd tournament, I dont think it was ever said that Genra was participating (the only boss character I know participated was Raidou for the first tournament where he was killed by Kasumi with Ryu's help) so while she did kill him, it was Zack who did win and set the story of the first DOAX game (which now looks to be the only Xtreme game canon).

 

[Mayor-Of-Mustard]

me @ the epic lore argument on this thread.

i met a girl on tumblr (surprise surprise) who kept nagging my friend over getting some lore wrong OVER A MEME.

 

[Shining_Wave]

So basically new Team Ninja is like George Lucas going back and f**king with star wars.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

When it comes to the DOAD retcons, I liked how it is setup that Ryu was now directly involved with killing the first 3 bosses since it establishes him as THE most powerful character in universe and that he could end Donovan's evil plans all by himself but isn't interested enough to do so since he clearly sees this as more of the problems of Hayate and his clan (note how in 5, he beats up Hayate and calls him a failure for constantly failing to stop Donovan).

And that's what alot of people despised about the retcons, it just makes Ryu way too powerful, yet so damn stupid in that he's not going to go stop M.I.S.T. and Donovan because "It's Mugen Tenshin's fight"... despite stepping in to take down Bankotsubo.
So now you have him clean up everyone else's mess and even jump into affairs anyway in DOA4... only to admonish another clan for something he could have stopped from the word go.
It was obvious even in DOA5 that new Team Ninja is scaling Ryu back a bit from Dimensions(he ultimately doesn't defeat Kasumi Alpha-152 and apparently could have even been knocked out by it when they traded Ninpo blasts), NiCO straight out states in DOA Quest that Kasumi has ridiculous potential after a Phase 4 quest, The DOA6 Encyclopedia removes Ryu being anywhere from helping defeating Raidou and Genra(though Hayate was apparently with Ayane against Genra) despite having other Dimensions elements here and there.

Basically this is Dead or Alive, not Ninja Gaiden. As @Brute would say, Ryu shouldn't need help from anyone in Ninja Gaiden's main story because it's his story and thus vice versa, he shouldn't be bailing out Kasumi or Ayane in the slightest in their fights because it's THEIR story, not his. That should not be something that's lauded and most of the fanbase made that obvious.

 

[Brute]

As @Brute would say, Ryu [...] shouldn't be bailing out Kasumi or Ayane in the slightest in their fights because it's THEIR story, not his.

It feels like Honoka and Marie's story, now. With some Nico on the side.