They have good range, but the start up is so slow it's harder to time them for the whiff punish. What you get when they hit isn't all that great IMO, either. If you have no problem timing them, and you like them, then go for it. I'd play around with his other options before making that...
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Up close Leon loses to 11i mids, so you have to make the reads and hold them. Anything slower though you can use jab strings. You really need to use jabs.
To deal with jabs you have 33p and 2p.
Then for lows you have 3p, 6k, 6p...
The triangle system plays a pretty big role in the neutral game, depending on your character choice (Grapplers have no attacks to beat 11i mids). Up close, anyway.
Look at Jann Lee vs. Leon: 11i mid stops everything Leon does, so he HAS to hold, block, or back away. If the Leon chooses to...
If you're timing it, that means you're delaying it though, right?
In the past I've tried using attacks with extra active frames (Leon specifically), but even if an attack hit on it's 3rd active it was still holdable. I can only think of one time this wasn't true.
They're both active for 2. Thing is, I've never had an attack hitting on it's 2nd active frame be unholdable. It's always first or not at all.
It still whiffs next to an invisible wall.
These are options you have to avoid wake-up kicks and continue applying pressure.
All weights:
PP6P6P, p6p6p, or 6PP into a wall >
2K > 2T. (OS)
- +2 if they tech
- 2T if they stay down
P > 3H+K (50/50 FT)
- +19/20 if they stray down.
- I THINK you're at -2 if they tech.
Lightweights and...
So you're playing a match and you've conditioned your opponent to tech, now you want more.
CB > 8k > p6pp > 3pp > 2p (Lightweights and midweights)
7PK
- Unholdable.
- Grants a short +11 stun on hit, and -5 on block.
- +11 is short enough to press with 6T regardless of whether they hold or...
3p+k is definitely unholdable after 9kk, though I'm not sure how. Being at +20, it should be anything 19i, but 3p+k is 18. The fact that it even hits is strange, as h+k doesn't.
Also, both 1p and 1k FT after a 9kk.
do you mean option selects?
Try CB > 8k > p6pp > 3pp > 2p > 2T. (Make sure 2p and 2T are separate motions, don't hold down)
Or you can do 3H+K as a pseudo force tech after 3pp
3h+k will give you +19/20 if they stay on the ground, and +1 or +2 if they tech (depends on the weight class).
2p...
But if you continue to use or people will be watching for it, making it a lot easier to react to.
They can both be slow teched, I just wanted to make sure you knew it was possible.
I can see why you would want to use it, but it seems a little less likely to work to me. Depending on who you're...
Isn't that already in the Raidou unholdable thread?
I just wanna point out that it would still be possible to slow tech it. I still prefer 8k to 4k, it's safe.
I'm clearly dyslexic.
It's not a limitation I'm imposing on myself, it's a matter of need.
I don't understand this need for quantity. You only NEED one high poke. Jab.
Hayabusa has a faster jab, but Leon has better jab strings. What high poke could he have better than Leon's jab, aside...
Safety in pokes..... Hayabusa has safer pokes? Explain?
The only low I use with Leon is 2p...
It seems to me you look at every character like they play the same? Or should play the same? I'm confused by the importance of some of these.
I meant better than Leon in the stun game. I'm gonna say they're even.
As far as that matchup, I'd give it too Leon. Better oki, weight class, etc. all hayabusa has on busa is speed, and it's only by jab. 33p.
Not sure about spacing.
I don't understand how that's relevant. Leon's mid punches are deeper? I don't use highs in stun.
Thinking about it, I will agree with busa playing the stun game better than Raidou. He doesn't quite match up on the hold punishment, and doesn't have any shortcuts to cb. Only guarantee is...
I'm on ps4.
You're talking about 214p? That only works if the opponent holds, does it not?
No on plays the stun game better than Leon, also. It definitely gets better than hayabusa or raidou.
Because it's much easier to show you.
1 frame on a jab is pretty game changing.
Ryu has more effective crushes on top of it.
This isn't even about the matchup, this is about what character is more effective overall. Ryu has a much easier time with faster characters. He has Izuna holds to...