A Brute Perspective on Sidestepping

[PhoenixVFIRE]

It is pretty annoying, but it's always satisfying to stuff bitches who think they're cute spamming that nonsense... once they realize it dont work no more, you see it less.

Anyway, I do agree that certain characters need better tools to deal with stuffing SSA. I wouldn't be opposed to seeing it get nerfed by not triggering dangerzones too.

 

[MasterGamer]

I previously said before that there are answers to the abuse step attack spamming, that shit is so bad on block that Rig gets a free launcher for it without even needing an i12 throw for it.

This is helpful. My inclination after blocking it is to throw, but some characters are physically too far away for me to do this. I'll have to see what's a good punishment besides that. I guess since my normal jab after block didn't work, I just figured everything else would be too slow.

 

[Akumasama]

Another thing to consider is also that we need more time.
Despite sidestep technically being also in DoA5, it's clear this one is pretty different.
It changes the meta-game of DoA a lot, A LOT.

I think we need more time to adapt and judge in a more calm, relaxed, objective way.
Doing it too fast might make us incur into personal bias just because the balance of game elements has shifted compared to the past.

What might seem a major problem now, might be something that is solved with an extremely simple and minor tweak on TN's side.
I completely agree with what Brute said, but at the same time I really think we need a larger sample (in terms of fights, of time, of people playing etc) before we can really point the finger too much at the sidestep.


I found it unfair/unbalanced/toopowerful multiple times through the course of these first weeks of gameplay, but I'm not too keen on letting a "final verdict" fall on it, not yet at least.

 

[DOA-Wrestling]

I just wish games could feel unique, instead of everyone having to follow the leader. I don't want to see sidesteping in DOA, like how I wouldn't want to see countering/holds in Virtua Fighting. I don't want to see power bars in every fighting game just because Street Fighter is king.

And just the side stepping in general isn't as clear as it is in a Virtua Figher or Soul Calibur, again this might be a time thing as Akumasama said above, as I myself am in the spamming stage in my effort to try and figure it out.

 

[Raansu]

I hate that fact that it kills strings and so many characters simply have no way to deal with them. Eliot for example has F+K, S, and 4K as tracking moves. All are slow and all of them are unsafe. Other than S (which leads to a guaranteed situation), the other two are not viable options. The other option is to throw in which if you make the wrong read and they attack you're not getting blown up for hi counter damage.

The attack itself is completely invincible which is silly, meaning even after they've recovered from the sidestep you're still going to hit by the linear attack that completely whiffs through your own. I remember a Hitomi player did a move that was safe, and I opted for Eliot's 4k which is around i16-i17, instead of SSA she was able to jab check me because my options for SS are so slow.

Problem 3, the knockback effect. It will send you flying into the nearest dangerzone only to lose 30-40% of your health because someone made a random read.

In many cases the reward for punishing/baiting a SS attack is not as good as landing one.

You think it should just be an SS and the attack removed? I can't be the only one that thinks its a bit silly for it to be defensive and offensive with a pretty strong knockback.

 

[HumbleGamer]

There is nothing inherently wrong with the SSA mechanic; the flaws are the characters. Every character is viable in this game, it is just some characters require more effort compared to other characters. As an Eliot main I must speak on this feature. I am by no means taking shots at anyone who mains Hitomi, however if we are being honest I am surprised she is not the most used character in the game right now. Constant reset pressure, several tracking moves that can easily blow up the SSA mechanic, and to top it all off her 2H+K also shuts the player down. These are all different ways that Hitomi can blow an opponent up, so it's pick your poison. Whereas someone like Eliot, Kokoro, and Marie Rose are forced to play one way and one way only. We are forced to wait until the opponent either makes a mistake, or try to bait people. There are a few exceptional players that are able to adapt and compete (online) with characters like Eliot, Kokoro, etc. This was stated earlier in the thread, but I will reiterate. Eliot's tracking moves; 4K, S, and H+K. Three moves that are slow, unsafe, and after a while they become predictable. Hell; his 2H+K does not even track. The SSA mechanic I don't expect everyone to have issues with the SSA mechanic; especially if their main character has the resources to counter it.

 

[Raansu]

I am by no means taking shots at anyone who mains Hitomi, however if we are being honest I am surprised she is not the most used character in the game right now. Constant reset pressure

Her reset is terrible. Just fuzzy and you'll avoid being thrown and can block any followup she could possibly do. I'd take Mila's or Zack's 6T over Hitomi's any day.

 

[HumbleGamer]

Her reset is terrible. Just fuzzy and you'll avoid being thrown and can block any followup she could possibly do. I'd take Mila's or Zack's 6T over Hitomi's any day.

Ok. ONE problem solved. That does not take away from her wide array of tracking moves.

 

[Brute]

Her reset is terrible. Just fuzzy and you'll avoid being thrown and can block any followup she could possibly do. I'd take Mila's or Zack's 6T over Hitomi's any day.

There aren't many options in the game that can't be easily dismissed by saying "just fuzzy."

 

[Raansu]

Ok. ONE problem solved. That does not take away from her wide array of tracking moves.

And? What threat are you under after 6T? Fuzzy the loop throw and can block any attack she does. Her tracking strings are generally unsafe.

 

[DestructionBomb]

I don't want to see sidesteping in DOA.

Yikes that sounds terrible, might as well turn DOA to a 2D fighter. Even freestepping is an evasive mechanic from the older games so SS is no different with just invulnerabilities attached. TN has tried a few times to do it's own thing and just doesn't go anywhere so they are keeping up with the norm. Maybe they went too far by adding meter, but the game has gotten better support with 5 and 6 than any other game in it's history currently. Least by competitive standards. It's a 3D fighter, so absorb the 3D universal system for having an actual SS. Why be the weird unique one when it does nothing but question itself if it's a fighting game or not. Not just a follow the leader thing here because other fighters copy the same thing generally from other games, so why try to add new things that just complicates things for no reason at all? because you want it to feel special? lul. Course no offense here by the way, but DOA hasn't got a good track record on being unique either. DOA by far has the best animations compared to Kekken's legacy build of ancient motion and clunks, but DOA like most other games gets problems for trying to be too unique.

like how I wouldn't want to see countering/holds in Virtua Fighting.

Virtua Fighter? or you mean just the 3D virtual fighting in general? well DOA is one of the unique ones to having a universal hold system. So you want it to be unique or not unique? pick one.

And just the side stepping in general isn't as clear as it is in a Virtua Figher.

Probably. VF also has a bit of retracking to be fair but extremely minimal. DOA is the literal opposite where there is a lot more of that (least in 5) which is ironic considering 4 of the VF characters were in there.

I don't want to see power bars in every fighting game.

Something I can agree with, yes.

 

[KING JAIMY]

And? What threat are you under after 6T? Fuzzy the loop throw and can block any attack she does. Her tracking strings are generally unsafe.

If your opponent is clever, they will adapt to your constant fuzzying and start attempting 12 frame throws or slightly delay their quicker throws. By the time the frames of a slow throw become active, you're very likely already back in a standing position, leaving you vulnerable to said throws.

 

[Raansu]

If your opponent is clever, they will adapt to your constant fuzzying and start attempting 12 frame throws or slightly delay their quicker throws. By the time the frames of a slow throw become active, you're very likely already back in a standing position, leaving you vulnerable to said throws.

Until you get blasted in the face with a jab.

 

[KING JAIMY]

Until you get blasted in the face with a jab.

That's when you stop doing those throws. DOA is all about reading your opponent. Predict their next move. Get into their mindset. You don't want to do repeat the same things over and over again. If you suspect they're going to jab you can score an easy counter hit.

 

[Raansu]

That's when you stop doing those throws. DOA is all about reading your opponent. Predict their next move. Get into their mindset. You don't want to do repeat the same things over and over again. If you suspect they're going to jab you can score an easy counter hit.

All I'm pointing out is the guess isn't in her favor at all. It only does 35 damage and the +10 is meh when she doesn't have any real followup to it. Doing a 12i throw is significantly more risky than anything else.

 

[Brute]

You're at +10 with an i10 jab, i13 mid, and not tied to any stance, but the guess isn't in your favor.

K.

 

[Raansu]

You're at +10 with an i10 jab, i13 mid, and not tied to any stance, but the guess isn't in your favor.

K.

It's 12i mid, but its also super unsafe on block and why would I do 6p with this games SS? Even in 5 I wouldn't do 6p after 6T because the SS would kill it. When I play against Hitomi's I'm not afraid of that throw at all. Its literally worthless. Offline I can pretty much avoid any follwup throw and if you attack I'm just gonna block it and now the +10 is -15 because Hitomi's strings are super straight forward and easy to read.

 

[HumbleGamer]

It's 12i mid, but its also super unsafe on block and why would I do 6p with this games SS? Even in 5 I wouldn't do 6p after 6T because the SS would kill it. When I play against Hitomi's I'm not afraid of that throw at all. Its literally worthless. Offline I can pretty much avoid any follwup throw and if you attack I'm just gonna block it and now the +10 is -15 because Hitomi's strings are super straight forward and easy to read.

I never mentioned anything about her 6T. I mentioned her strings/attacks that have the ability to track. Let's stick to the topic at hand por favor.

 

[GarryJaune]

the "invincible" fuzzy can not deal with 2HK low sweep,as well as SS
having so many tracking move strings ,hitomi fits well in this "SS or not" version DOA6,undoubtedly she is a high tier character

 

[Raansu]

the "invincible" fuzzy can not deal with 2HK low sweep,as well as SS
having so many tracking move strings ,hitomi fits well in this "SS or not" version DOA6,undoubtedly she is a high tier character

Fuzzy can be completed into a low block. That's kinda one of the key points of fuzzy is to create a scenario to block low or high against a character that can cancel/string into either. Ducking throws is just a plus to it in DoA's throw system. You don't SS after Hitomi's 6T. That's just dumb. Block her tracking strings and punish her.

Again, ya'll give way too much credit to her 6T.