Ask Team NINJA

[Raansu]

<_>

 

[virtuaPAI]

LMAO....I can say that even with us bickering about necessary gameplay changes/alterations/expansions, we are the only Doa site that have this much gameplay discussions going on.

 

[Raansu]

LMAO....I can say that even with us bickering about necessary gameplay changes/alterations/expansions, we are the only Doa site that have this much gameplay discussions going on.

That's awesome, but sort of sad as well -_-. I'm hoping closer to release that interest spikes and brings more traffic to the site like doa4 did (for the other forum that now sucks).

 

[Rikuto]

I've been trying to get a first page google result for freestepdodge using any number of obvious keywords a new player would use to find a doa website with no luck.

We not doing too bad at all if you think about it. Everyone who finds this website pretty much finds it by word of mouth.

 

[Raansu]

The site hasn't been around long enough or gotten enough traffic to make its way up to the top page of google yet sadly. That and the name really only stands out to older doa players I think. Thats why I was against the tkplayers name to replace doac, but whatever, this site is still 10x better.

On the bright side, TN twitter gives us a plug once in awhile, so that should push some people our way.

 

[virtuaPAI]

This wont be as easy as you may think. 1st of all the Counter version of it can obviously not be escaped on the first stage of the throw. The second stage, even if escaped, will leave both ryu AND the thrown opponent 12ft in the air so now... The Throw version has the exact same issue. The only way for this to be done is to make ALL throws escapable, on the initial hit of those throws.

-I didn't respond right away because I thought the other guys did very well in their response towards your claims. However, Let me explain why Busa's Izuna Drop should(could) have the 1st part escapable and make sense. Like it has been stated before, there are distinct difference between the Defensive Hold(DH) Izuna and its throw counterpart. I would like to add(to everyone else's argument) that Combo DH's do not necessarily have to be escapable, and there are a few that are after the 1st part. You made an argument that there are no combo throws in the game that are escapable on the 1st part, and that would be "unfair" to Busa if that came to fruition. Well, 's +ause:+ is not only escapable on the 1st part, it is also escapable on the 2nd. This makes it absolutely fair to have the 1st part of Busa's Izuna escapable. Also, 's +ause:+ was gimped in Doa4. It was significantly better in Doa3.1 because it not only provided +5 if the 1st part was completed(and you did not followup with the 2nd part of the throw), If you escaped the 1st part, she was still in a better position than she was in Doa4. I played extensively in Doa3 and I could not abuse her +ause:+ because it was escapable...but I was able to mix it in because she have other good throws that I could use. This is the same exact thing that a Busa player could do, and it would not affect his overall game....it would actually make players go more indepth with him, and use a more varied strategy.

-Lol. For years I have said that I think it makes Doa unique that it didn't have throw escapes...In truth it does, However after all these years, I think it will benefit the series to have throw escaping. Shit, you can escape out of everything else. IMO, it will only work if Team Ninja adopted a modified "VF5 Final Showdown" throw-escape system. In that you will have to match the last command input+throw to escape. Ex uses ++ to throw. His opponent will have to use the last directional command + + to escape. In other words, + will be used to escape. No multiple throw escapes...only one time action to escape. However, If you throw a DH'ing opponent, there should be no throw escape option available. Full High Counter throw punishment. Oh Btw, grapplers should get more throwing commands than other characters...,,,,,, compared to say ,,(for ex) making it hard to predict a proper throw escape.

 

[OSTCarmine]

I believe my point was to illustrate that no throws aside from the basic throw was escapable on 1st contact. just happens to have a combo throw in this slot. So do a few other characters [can only recall Eliot right now]
Also, YES to throw escaping as a new mechanic. Fully on board with this one. That would really balance the game out well. As a side note, AND each have inescapable combo throws. TN really likes their ninjas lol

 

[grap3fruitman]

I would like to see throw escaping but it wouldn't work in the current system. Imagine if I tried to throw punish someone that was constantly throwing out holds or unsafe moves. Now I can't even guarantee that I'd get that throw? Ughh... They really need to completely overhaul DOA.

 

[Matt Ponton]

You have to use attack punishment as well lol.

It could always be like SF4 where the throw is unbreakable when it's guaranteed. It's only techable if the player wasn't put in enough disadvantage on block.

 

[Rikuto]

Well if the game has a proper dose of frame advantage, you wouldn't be punishing much besides the really bad players.

For throw escapes to work, punishment throws have to all be around the same speed, and each character needs two punishment options, so that gives the throw punisher different options to use in accordance with the environment. The person attempting to break the throw takes environmental disadvantages into account, and then makes his choice.

Soul Calibur, for example, only has you choose "This, or that" when deciding which throw to break. If you can killed instantly by "this" but only lose 25% lifebar from "that", the choice becomes obvious. It stands to work more as a tool to punish ignorant players then skilled ones, and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[OSTCarmine]

We also need to take Advantage into consideration. What happens when a throw is broken? do both characters reset to normal position? Does the "breaker" get advantage? or the "broken" maybe?
If this is done wrong it will end up just being another broken mechanic that sneaky players use to "cheat legally". They will purposefully bait throws to break them and not be punished, just like Grap3 said.
Here is what I think would work
1|No throw is breakable if it hits on "Hi Counter" or "Counter" frames
2|Escape frames are the same as Hold frames, or at least very tight
3|Escapes favor no one in terms of frame advantage [i think its best if escapes serve as a reset, that way it can ONLY be used defensively, and spamming becomes less of an issue]
4|Escapes can be character specific [some characters have trademark escapes eg could roll, could teleport, could Utsusemi [I may be confusing his moves with something from Disgaea lol]
5|Escapes MUST be definitive ie. I need to be able to clearly SEE that Im breaking a throw, or that one of mine has been broken. You would not think this would be worth mention but sometimes these things just dont show up well onscreen and it gets confusing.
6|The command used for a throw escape CANNOT be the button [no brainer right?]
7|Escapes should have some sort of multi option element, a "choice of x,y or z" type system that rewards a good choice and punishes a bad one. In this sense, if an escape is spammed and the wrong choice is made, not only do you eat a throw you also take additional damage for being a spamming asshole. Im not sure HOW this could be done, but I would like to see it done this way

 

[virtuaPAI]

I believe my point was to illustrate that no throws aside from the basic throw was escapable on 1st contact. just happens to have a combo throw in this slot. So do a few other characters [can only recall Eliot right now]

-While "basic non command throws" are escapable, leifang's +ause:+ is not a basic + throw.

• 1. +ause:+ is a combo throw.
• 2. The user have the option to fake out an opponent by only entering the initial throw and follow up with something else.
• 3. The user can do the follow-up throw to get guaranteed damage.

-This makes the sum of its parts more than a "basic non command throw",thus making your point invalid. With that said, there are other throws in the game that are ambiguous as well. Tina's Back turned +ause:+ is also another + throw that's a combo throw. All + based wall throws are "inescapable", yet Hayate's wall + is escapable by entering a just frame throw escape. Allowing the 1st part of Hayabusa's Izuna drop throw to be escapable(while the follow-ups being inescapable) is neither punishment towards Hayabusa, unfair treatment, nor a misdirected amendment. The only thing that have been unfair and grossly imbalanced for the past 12 years, has always been Hayabusa's Izuna Drop. The Izuna does practically the same amount of damage as the grapplers most powerful throws, however:

• 1. It is inescapable.
• 2. It has more environmental potential(Significantly surpassing the grappler throw damage range).
• 3. When not completed it has juggle potential(Significantly surpassing the grappler throw damage range).
• 4. It has more lenient execution input than the throws of grapplers(or any other character for that matter. All you have to do is 360+ 3x. Also, for the most part it doesn't matter where you start off the 360.
• 5. It has more strategic uses than the throws of grapplers.

-This is just completely inappropriate and it needs to addressed NOW!!!!!

-As for throw escaping...IMO all throws should not be escapable. There have to be some way to solid punishment. Maybe have those throws that do say 60pts of damage or more be escapable only.

 

[OSTCarmine]

Can anybody give me some feedback on the post I made about the best way to go about adding Throw Escapes? I would like to turn it into a formal Ask Team Ninja request so Wah can add it to the list, but as of yet its merely random junk I was thinking about. Could we maybe get some kind of standard for this request, that everybody [or whoever matters more, idk] can agree with?

 

[Matt Ponton]

The first questions have already been sent, so you have plenty of time to clean it up if you feel it should be. Generally speaking I take the question and put it in my own words when typing up the question to Team NINJA. This is done to keep a consistent and coherent voice on the document to prevent what would be random questions and thoughts between each question.

 

[HokutoNoBen]

Are these the same questions that have been sent from DOAW, or another set altogether...?

 

[Allan Paris]

Are these the same questions that have been sent from DOAW, or another set altogether...?

No, I am pretty sure the questions that are being asked here are very different from questions being asked there. DOAC may have the same questions that are being asked here but, not entirely.

 

[HokutoNoBen]

Ah. I just remembered reading how Wah "approved" of the questions being sent and assumed this was some type of collaboration effort, or what-have-you.

 

[Rikuto]

Well, he mostly just asks the questions we want the answers to in a way they will actually understand what is being asked.

Otherwise you get Dave Chapelle's famous question to Itagaki "Why is Ayane so unsafe?" "Because she was raised that way."

And there does need to be a little weeding out because lets face it, some people ask waaaay to many questions we already know the answers to, and we only get to send so many.

I also only trust Wah with this. Wah would pick mostly the gameplay related questions we have to be sent over. Someone like Master would just pick a bunch of easy questions everybody already knows the answers to, throw maybe one or two relevant things in there, and have the rest casual fluff so he simply appears as though he is genuinely interested in his grand quest of kissing ass and getting favors.

Moeru Wa will simply send the questions in that his people want, which are going to be 99% casual oriented, "can my dress be this color" line of thinking. And good for him, I guess. Someone needs to satisfy those people.

 

[grap3fruitman]

Speaking of questions, Shimbori would like some clarification on one of the questions Mr. Wah sent.

The question, uh, in question:

6. The attack strings and options all give disadvantage on block, including guard breaks and guard crushes. In Dead or Alive 3.1, the advantage on block given to a character (typically a striker like Hayate or Jann Lee) provided not only a move to keep pressure, but the advantage gained from it allowed for educated guessing that the player will utilize this move a great advantage of the time. This allowed players to create educated guesses against their opponent, and punish those who did not properly learn the attacks and options to avoid it.

Tecmo-Koei's rep:

As he says, he is referring to the advantage on block. Is he thinking about Jann Lee's 66K, 2KK. Or Hayate's 66_P or 6P+K?
He says that "This allowed players to create educated guesses against their opponent". I think that these educated guesses are different for the level of each player.
Moreover, I think that there is a difference between Japanese and American players when it comes down to this. Shimbori would like to know as to the type of educated guesses American players make.

Could you all collaborate on a how to clarify and better explain the question so we can shoot it back to Shimbori? It looks like he's looking for more specific examples, which I personally wouldn't be really helpful in providing.

 

[Raansu]

Ehhh I guess I would say that its a type of guess that takes away some of the randomness. While there is still some randomness involved in situations like Jan Lee's 6pk or 66k, the fact that the attack gives frame advantage narrows down the options when it connects on block. In doa4 everything looped in constant 50/50 guessing because everything was unsafe on block. When frame advantage is put into play, there is more control of the situation, pressure is created, and both the defender and the attacker have a more defined idea of what to do and the fight will feel less chaotic and random while also feel more rewarding when you win, while in doa4 when you win it just feels like it was pure luck.