DOA5 Community Summit 2012

[Prince Adon]

Of course they're going to also focus on DLC. Do you think the time and terms put into making a patch is free?

 

[BloodyNights]

I'm pretty sure the first patch did more then just change search criteria around, when I first played DOA5 with friends it was nearly unplayable. Choppy, heavily delayed, and then after the patch I could magically do all the combos that I had learned offline. I'm not saying the netcode is perfect, but it is way better than it used to be. I would like it to be patched again so finding new random opponents would be easier though.

 

[DR2K]

So let's stop complaining about unfounded claims that the team is only listening to one set of players, and just play the game.

I'd rather keep complaining until everything goes my way.

I understand they're in a rock and a hard place with system changes, but when you try to please everyone you please no one. DOA5 is very confusing system and balance wise because of it.

 

[Rikuto]

Really?

Because people have been clamoring for TN to improve the net code from day one. All they did was release a patch that changed the default search criteria. Plenty of people report they have difficulty finding games in simple or ranked matches in nearby regions, even after setting any rank. Any region is not feasible because there's too much lag. Throwdowns also need to be reworked.

The netcode fix did far more than what you claim. My lobby matches have improved greatly as well.

People have been rightfully upset about the cheap AI in single player, so TN makes the AI slightly less psychic for just one difficulty level.

Different strokes for different folks, but if you ask me there is nothing rightful in complaining about input reading AI in a game designed at its core for player versus player combat. Input reading AI has been in fighting games for years. In some cases its handled better than others, but it's nothing new and people should probably move past single player and actually play the game for its intended purpose if they are getting that hung up over it.

Even though the appeals continued, TN seemingly turns a deaf ear to them and instead opts to focus on their overpriced fortnightly DLC that are just recycled costumes from previous games. You can't even just buy the one you want, you have to buy a whole pack. People have been asking for a compatibility pack so they can show off their DLC to other players, which TN has also ignored.

Bullshit. Just because they hear your request doesn't mean its feasible they can do anything about it. I happen to know for a fact they stalk twitter/facebook daily and are very much aware of those requests. It would be nice if they came true, but it's not always the highest priority.

Also, in the future please try not to rely on the "everything is wrong with this devteam and and and and GREED!" baseline as your argument. Especially when you have absolutely no idea as to the inner workings of Team Ninja. Seriously, it's insulting.

Perhaps the above issues are of no concern to people here, since offline tourneys are seemingly the be all and end all of DoA5, but when casuals can't even enjoy single player nor find a decent online match, shouldn't THOSE be the issues TN looks into if it wants to ensure a thriving DoA community? The same issues they have ignored thus far?

I'm not dissing the game, I like DoA5. I'm just stating what's happening.

Online works good enough for me and I'm enjoying offline greatly. Casuals by definition move on to other games like sheep because they don't have enough of an attention span to go hardcore into something. Single player content doesn't keep a fighting game alive. What are you gonna do, play survival mode every day and brag about the number of points you get? That stuff doesn't keep people interested, even when its functional. Core gameplay matters, and that's based in player versus player. Everything else is a second tier priority. You should be thankful any of that was addressed at all in the last patch.

 

[XV MR ARMANI]

Casuals by definition move on to other games like sheep because they don't have enough of an attention span to go hardcore into something.

Whoa there partna we all were casuals at one point!

I do enjoy seeing things like Community Summits and Company to Consumer discussions because it shows that they care about making their product enjoyable for their fans. And while I do have my qualms about the DLC its understandable, because for one, the game is very, Very, VERY vast in everything you can think of, graphics, fighting system, hit effects, etc, time constraints probably caused the simplicity of the costume selection. (who gives a fuck anyways? their just clothes). Lastly, being that the fighting system is so huge, exploits will take longer to discover and patches will take longer to work on. Whatever makes these patch processes faster I'm all for it!! They just need to find a way to get everything situated with the netcode, I'm seeing alot of mixed reviews..

The SCV devs just jumped ship. Thank you TN.

 

[Rikuto]

No, not all of us start casual. It's just what some of us choose to call ourselves at one point or another when we haven't yet admitted we spend as much time on a game as we do. This tends to happen because we are not yet confident enough in our abilities on that game, and calling ourselves hardcore while still sucking tends to be even more embarrassing.

If you even post on a forum board for something at all you could hardly be considered casual. This game has sold more than half a million copies, yet only 2,000 people are registered on FSD. If you fall into that camp, well....


Side note: I hate the term exploit.

In competitive games it means you discovered an unintended use for a mechanic to your benefit, proving you were the smarter player and more deserving of the win. Except we don't call it an exploit, we just call it being clever.

In MMO's, it means you're a horrible cheating individual who will be cast forever into the bowels of gamer hell. Primarily because MMO's are more composed of noncompetitive individuals who take personal offense when someone uses something in order to win.

Same meaning with a different stigma attached to it.

 

[Mailifang]

No, not all of us start casual. It's just what some of us choose to call ourselves at one point or another when we haven't yet admitted we spend as much time on a game as we do. This tends to happen because we are not yet confident enough in our abilities on that game, and calling ourselves hardcore while still sucking tends to be even more embarrassing.

If you even post on a forum board for something at all you could hardly be considered casual. This game has sold more than half a million copies, yet only 2,000 people are registered on FSD. If you fall into that camp, well....


Side note: I hate the term exploit.

In competitive games it means you discovered an unintended use for a mechanic to your benefit, proving you were the smarter player and more deserving of the win. Except we don't call it an exploit, we just call it being clever.

In MMO's, it means you're a horrible cheating individual who will be cast forever into the bowels of gamer hell. Primarily because MMO's are more composed of noncompetitive individuals who take personal offense when someone uses something in order to win.

Same meaning with a different stigma attached to it.

I kinda disagree with your stance on exploits.During the last 5 or 6 yrs there have been plenty games that I have played competitively where "exploits" have ruined or dumbed down the game play experience. Some exploits add to the game play experience while others just conflict with how the game is intended and supposed to play. Clever play within the game play is fine but using exploits while strategically is smart, it isn't really clever its just tells me you couldn't beat me any other way. Sure you could say a win is a win no matter how you earned it. I see things differently.A hard earned win that isn't tainted by using a game exploit,glitch, or flaw is what I go for. Now if I do lose to players who abuse game play issues I just go on about my business. I'm too old to bitch and moan over obvious BS.


I will say that if both players use exploits then the match is pretty much even at that point. I'm more of an Open Palm"than a "Closed Fist "(If you ever played Jade Empire you will understand what it is) person. I want to win but not by any means necessary. And it has done well for me. If a person has got to cheese a game by using exploits,glitches, or flaws in the game play to win then I lose respect for them as players. Games that are heavily exploitable I also avoid just playing in general.

 

[Rikuto]

Fighting games are ruled by glitches, starting from the very first "combo". Only rarely is anything actually banned.

For FPS titles, Halo 2 had a lot of very basic glitches that affected reload time and weapon switching speed, all of which were allowed in competition despite the fact it completely changed how the game was played.

For psuedo-fighters, Melee was ONLY made competitive because of a series of glitches.

Now let me ask you something, why are these glitches deemed as good, but in certain genres, namely MMO's, they are all deemed bad and can even get you banned?

It all comes down to community perception and how we raise our community to handle things like this. For MMO's, there is always the weak promise of big brother watching from the skies to strike down the offender and there is always another patch to fix the issue. Because of this, those communities are raised to act like a bunch of whiny children who can't deal with anything on their own. They go to those genres specifically so that they don't have to deal with anything requiring the use of their brain, which is reflected in the mindless tasks they have you do in those games.

For every other game, big brother doesn't give a shit. You got outplayed, you deal with it. If you wanna get better, you put in the effort and you GET BETTER.

So I don't like the term exploit. It means the same thing as any other glitch, but the use of the term is used to justify getting your ass kicked as if it somehow wasn't your fault.

I will say that if both players use exploits then the match is pretty much even at that point. I'm more of an Open Palm"than a "Closed Fist "(If you ever played Jade Empire you will understand what it is) person. I want to win but not by any means necessary. And it has done well for me. If a person has got to cheese a game by using exploits,glitches, or flaws in the game play to win then I lose respect for them as players. Games that are heavily exploitable I also avoid just playing in general.

To put things bluntly, this is the primary reason you're not on top. I think you know that, too. If we're both equally skilled players but i have access to something you don't, I'm going to win every single time. There is no way around it.

 

[Mailifang]

So I don't like the term exploit. It means the same thing as any other glitch, but the use of the term is used to justify getting your ass kicked as if it somehow wasn't your fault.

That's one way of looking at.Especially if your the blood thirsty or "Closed Fist" player type. True not all games are perfect and there are going to be hiccups in the game play. Now if your relying on those hiccups to dominate or squeek out wins than that just leaves a poor reflection on you as the player. Sometimes an ass kicking is not your fault if you had no knowledge that the opposing player was using moves,attacks, or strategy that inherently took advantage of flaws in the game play system.

Sorta like how the federal court will never get Barry Bonds on a steroid charge.Because at the time the perfomance enhancer he was on was not considered a steroid or even a performance enhancer. Mr Bonds did play and perform under the same rules as every other baseball player while he was on "the clear". But because he found a way to "exploit" the rules as far as steroid use he performed longer than he should have. As soon as he got off "the clear" his knees and his "game" went to shit.

Having integrity for yourself and the game your playing leaves a more lasting impression. Sure if game play glitches and exploits are a part of the game play experience a la MvC2. And if the community is fine with it then by all means keep playing and supporting the game.

 

[Mailifang]

To put things bluntly, this is the primary reason you're not on top. I think you know that, too. If we're both equally skilled players but i have access to something you don't, I'm going to win every single time. There is no way around it.

True.But if you used a obvious exploit,glitch, or took advantage of a game play flaw then you didn't beat me fair and square. Now if we both have access to said exploit and I choose not to use it because I feel it is detrimental to the game play and I lose then that's on me and I'm fine with that. I just raise my game to the point that I can over come your choice of playing the game unfairly without having to use exploits. But that's me.

 

[UncleKitchener]

I'm sorry, but which exploit are we talking about? I got half this site on ignore, so sometimes it gets very confusing simply trying to follow a thread.

 

[Mailifang]

I'm sorry, but which exploit are we talking about? I got half this site on ignore, so sometimes it gets very confusing simply trying to follow a thread.

We are not talking about any exploits specifically.We are just discussing a difference in player perspectives towards taking advantage of game play flaws,exploits, and glitches to win. No one is really right or wrong on this issue.

 

[Prince Adon]

I think he means exploits that takes the game beyond casual.

 

[Mailifang]

I think he means exploits that takes the game beyond casual.

I know.But those are not really the exploits i'm referring too.

 

[Rikuto]

The purpose of playing a game is to win. You are meant to do anything and everything to achieve that end. Fun is nothing more than a byproduct of that process.

E-bushido itself is a fallacy. If we meet in a game, I'm not going to care that you played and held back. I'm going to beat you, and if you performed poorly while attempting to justify yourself, think less of you for not giving me everything you have. That's most people too, not just me.

So why hamstring yourself? It's disrespectful to your own potential, and to your opponent.

 

[Mailifang]

The purpose of playing a game is to win. You are meant to do anything and everything to achieve that end. Fun is nothing more than a byproduct of that process.

E-bushido itself is a fallacy.

Everyone plays to win,that is why people compete and play games in the first place.But no one likes being a lamb being slaughtered by those who just want to win at any cost. Bushido in and of itself is not a fallacy. You 're meant to play within the confines of the game play. You do what it takes to win.It doesn't mean you have to be blood thirsty to do so. Rules are made for a reason. Some work within them,some bend and break them to achieve their own ends.

You can exude strength by dominating your opponent by any means necessary. Or you can show true strength when you can perform and win at high level and excelling within the confines of the rules without bending or breaking them.

The definition of fun differs from person to person. I got my ass kicked in all my league matches today. I lost to better players.But I held my own and I still had fun. Just because I'm not a do whatever it takes to win type of person doesn't mean I'm soft. If you let your guard down and don't come at me with everything you got I will beat you.

 

[Matt Ponton]

I don't think the current conversation is following the original topic. It seems like it would be best if you two continue this discussion in private conversation or in a topic matching the discussion.

 

[Mailifang]

I don't think the current conversation is following the original topic. It seems like it would be best if you two continue this discussion in private conversation or in a topic matching the discussion.

Sorry Mr Wah . I'll stop lol.

 

[Roroko]

The netcode fix did far more than what you claim. My lobby matches have improved greatly as well.

True for me as well; but for everyone who has reported an improved online experience, there is an equal number of people who claim otherwise.

Different strokes for different folks, but if you ask me there is nothing rightful in complaining about input reading AI in a game designed at its core for player versus player combat. Input reading AI has been in fighting games for years. In some cases its handled better than others, but it's nothing new and people should probably move past single player and actually play the game for its intended purpose if they are getting that hung up over it.

That's precisely the point:
1. It could have been handled better; and
2. They can't play the game for its "intended purpose" because online isn't playable for them.

Bullshit. Just because they hear your request doesn't mean its feasible they can do anything about it. I happen to know for a fact they stalk twitter/facebook daily and are very much aware of those requests. It would be nice if they came true, but it's not always the highest priority.

Are you saying it's not feasible to improve the netcode or that it's not a priority? Either way, until TN fixes these issues then for all intents and purposes it's the same as ignoring them.

Also, in the future please try not to rely on the "everything is wrong with this devteam and and and and GREED!" baseline as your argument. Especially when you have absolutely no idea as to the inner workings of Team Ninja. Seriously, it's insulting.

It's a fact that:
1. DLC costumes costs more than in other games;
2. Costume designs were recycled;
3. TN forces you to buy entire packs rather than the ones you want.

Just because people tend to make a fuss about developer greed in general doesn't mean we should pretend otherwise when it is happening.

Online works good enough for me and I'm enjoying offline greatly. Casuals by definition move on to other games like sheep because they don't have enough of an attention span to go hardcore into something. Single player content doesn't keep a fighting game alive. What are you gonna do, play survival mode every day and brag about the number of points you get? That stuff doesn't keep people interested, even when its functional. Core gameplay matters, and that's based in player versus player. Everything else is a second tier priority. You should be thankful any of that was addressed at all in the last patch.

It's got nothing to do with herd mentality. If singleplayer is no fun, and online doesn't work for them, then there's nothing to keep them playing DoA5.

And I should be thankful they partly fixed something that should have been up to scratch on release?

Your whole response can basically be summed up with: I don't think it matters, so neither should Team Ninja nor anybody else.

 

[Prince Adon]

True for me as well; but for everyone who has reported an improved online experience, there is an equal number of people who claim otherwise.

Considering the p2p method. I doubt it'll ever please everyone.

That's precisely the point:
1. It could have been handled better; and
2. They can't play the game for its "intended purpose" because online isn't playable for them.

I don't think anyone who don't have online(or plan on having it), or a group of friends, or some kind of extensive offline play would even be buying fighting games. Single player modes would just get boring fast especially obviously that's not going to be the focus part of a fighting game. How much can you do to it to make it fun? Outside of training mode, and finishing story mode not much left. Unless you want your hands on those bikini. Can they really be that special? I say TN was better off not putting those unlockable bikinis in the game.

Are you saying it's not feasible to improve the netcode or that it's not a priority? Either way, until TN fixes these issues then for all intents and purposes it's the same as ignoring them.

I believe what he mean is the small "patch" wasn't as small as you make it out to be and it improved more than you're giving them credit for. They deserve some kind of credit for such a early/quick patch while trying to coop up another one.

It's a fact that:
1. DLC costumes costs more than in other games;
2. Costume designs were recycled;
3. TN forces you to buy entire packs rather than the ones you want.

The time and everything they put into DLC doesn't come free. I'm sure TN also isn't confident on how well people is going to buy DLC(especially in the long run). So I doubt they'll going to just throw out a box of gold. Why is it a problem if costume design are recycled? A lot of costumes people are asking for are "recycled". We should be lucky we getting these at all and hope in the future if the DLC go well they'll do new stuff. Also this help with the patches as well. Those cost money, too. Also TN "forcing" you to buy packs is probably because they don't want to lose money by making individual ones. They'll most likely make more with "packs" they're not a high end company like Capcom or Namco. Which I'm sure Capcom costume cost more(not to mention a lot were already on disc). You're not really forced to buy anything. You don't have to buy them. In the end it's a business and money what you need to keep it alive. This business cost a lot of money.