DOA5LR Helena in DOA5: Last Round

[deathofaninja]

I'm going to body her simply because of the hate in my heart for her. I already said she's still going to be a cheap character even with the nerfs. You got mad, bro.

Oh and this is rightly deserved.

 

[Project Bokuho]

Guys. This is a gameplay discussion thread, not a drama thread. Keep that stuff in the PMs.

Anyways, I just hope her 214T > BKO6PPK is still guaranteed near walls.

 

[Pictured Mind]

Ah... Helena in Last Round. It tickles me lavender because I'm going to body this girl bad.

Good luck. The rest of your post was too weird for me to respond to.

Anyways guys, Helena only lost stuff she wasn't good at anyways. Frame game is still amazing. 214T, BKO T and BT T are basically her best throws and they're from all stances. We still get guaranteed stuff after them too. Reset game still shines.

 

[ninjaguy446]

I'm going to body her simply because of the hate in my heart for her. I already said she's still going to be a cheap character even with the nerfs. You got mad, bro.

Oh and this is rightly deserved.

I was more confused at what your point was when you posted that, besides exclaiming your hatred, but alrighty then.

Guys. This is a gameplay discussion thread, not a drama thread. Keep that stuff in the PMs.

Anyways, I just hope her 214T > BKO6PPK is still guaranteed near walls.

There were no changes to frames, so I don't see why not.

 

[Yurlungur]

I'm going to body her simply because of the hate in my heart for her. I already said she's still going to be a cheap character even with the nerfs. You got mad, bro.

Oh and this is rightly deserved.

Booboo, this is the equivalent of someone walking into the alpha threads
Saying alpha is a retarded boss character who shouldn't be in the game and they're practicing 80% combos to make sure her life is hell

ANYWAYS, Since we're talking about helena going to be busted as shit
I want to know what are some good hard knockdowns for dangerzone
So far i believe 3ppp is a hard knockdown, i believe flappy hands aren't

What was that quotes about heaven not helping because that

 

[deathofaninja]

Booboo, this is the equivalent of someone walking into the alpha threads
Saying alpha is a retarded boss character who shouldn't be in the game and they're practicing 80% combos to make sure her life is hell

ANYWAYS, Since we're talking about helena going to be busted as shit
I want to know what are some good hard knockdowns for dangerzone
So far i believe 3ppp is a hard knockdown, i believe flappy hands aren't

What was that quotes about heaven not helping because that

Take some ridicule, I've owned it since NEC'13

 

[Yurlungur]

So after playing lr for a bit, helena doesn't feel like she changed at all

except 8pp2p isn't wonky anymore and now on 33p's nh you need to go into flappy hands

Also if you guys like doing 9p4pp as a string it's bad now simply because if now causes a knockdown

 

[Project Bokuho]

 

[Pictured Mind]

I love it when Helena goes ghetto for a while.

 

[Zack117]

Her throws do less damage, yeah, but she's a vortex character, meaning that it'd be more fruitful to use her reset throws for the reset and not the damage.

Reset game still shines.

Could someone please explicate this "reset game" with Helena for me? I would really appreciate it as I'm still learning this character.

My understanding is that every character in the game can reset the situation in the middle of a string/stun with 2p. But what good does it do? I mean the opponent is ready to strike right after you do a reset on him.

 

[Pictured Mind]

Could someone please explicate this "reset game" with Helena for me? I would really appreciate it as I'm still learning this character.

My understanding is that every character in the game can reset the situation in the middle of a string/stun with 2p. But what good does it do? I mean the opponent is ready to strike right after you do a reset on him.

Helena has a very good mix up game in her throws.
If you use a BT T, you get 3PP4 for free and then after that it's a mixup. You basically "reset" the situation because now you're in the exact same scenario again. Only difference is your opponent has less health.

 

[AsheMann21]

Honestly, why do they want me to use 66P -_-"

 

[ninjaguy446]

Could someone please explicate this "reset game" with Helena for me? I would really appreciate it as I'm still learning this character.

My understanding is that every character in the game can reset the situation in the middle of a string/stun with 2p. But what good does it do? I mean the opponent is ready to strike right after you do a reset on him.

I'll just give you a rundown. 214T BKO 6PP is guaranteed. After this, you can A. 214T BKO 6PP them again and put them in the same situation if you think they'll hold/block, or B. Continue mixups on different hit levels (I.e. P, 33P, 1K2, etc.). All of that also applies to BT T 3PP(4).

Helena has so many different moves to keep you in stun and mix you up, and her stances help this greatly. You definitely want to constantly utilize and switch between all your stances. PP4, 6P4, 3PP4, 1K, BKO 4P for BT. 1K2 (preferable), 2H+K, PP2K for BKO (or just raw 2P+K). Free cancel and too many moves to count to go into FT.

While you're mixing people up with all of your moves and stances, they'll be trying to hold, and when they do, you want to 214T/BT T them so that you can reset the stun without going over the threshold. And if they refuse to hold, launch them and then force tech them and then stun the again and put them back into the same situation.

 

[Zack117]

If you use a BT T, you get 3PP4 for free and then after that it's a mixup. You basically "reset" the situation because now you're in the exact same scenario again.

I'll just give you a rundown. 214T BKO 6PP is guaranteed. After this, you can A. 214T BKO 6PP them again and put them in the same situation if you think they'll hold/block, or B. Continue mixups on different hit levels (I.e. P, 33P, 1K2, etc.). All of that also applies to BT T 3PP(4).

Helena has so many different moves to keep you in stun and mix you up, and her stances help this greatly. You definitely want to constantly utilize and switch between all your stances. PP4, 6P4, 3PP4, 1K, BKO 4P for BT. 1K2 (preferable), 2H+K, PP2K for BKO (or just raw 2P+K). Free cancel and too many moves to count to go into FT.

While you're mixing people up with all of your moves and stances, they'll be trying to hold, and when they do, you want to 214T/BT T them so that you can reset the stun without going over the threshold. And if they refuse to hold, launch them and then force tech them and then stun the again and put them back into the same situation.

You guys would not believe how valuable this information is to me and how much it helped me. I've watched many videos, matches and past streams from finals for multiple times, partially frame by frame, trying to analyze, but I couldn't figure THIS out. There are so many things happening in a match which a new player can't see. Not to mention to get behind the mind of a pro gamer.

Thank you very much.

People in this forum must have so much knowledge about this character and the aforementioned mix-up strategy must be just a very basic aspect of many, still so helpful and not obvious to me.

So far the threads in this forum have been VERY helpful to me, especially the OPs/Stickies from @DR2K, @ninjaguy446 and @Omegan Eckhart.

The way @ninjaguy446 described her mix-up game to me was very comprehensible and adoptable while @Pictured Mind 's post makes sense too for me but only after reading ninja's. No offense - it's probably just me.

I wonder if you guys could gather all this information and make an entire OP about these things as I'm sure that many new players won't see this post. Such information should really be more accessible...

 

[ninjaguy446]

You guys would not believe how valuable this information is to me and how much it helped me. I've watched many videos, matches and past streams from finals for multiple times, partially frame by frame, trying to analyze, but I couldn't figure THIS out. There are so many things happening in a match which a new player can't see. Not to mention to get behind the mind of a pro gamer.

Thank you very much.

People in this forum must have so much knowledge about this character and the aforementioned mix-up strategy must be just a very basic aspect of many, still so helpful and not obvious to me.

So far the threads in this forum have been VERY helpful to me, especially the OPs/Stickies from @DR2K, @ninjaguy446 and @Omegan Eckhart.

The way @ninjaguy446 described her mix-up game to me was very comprehensible and adoptable while @Pictured Mind 's post makes sense too for me but only after reading ninja's. No offense - it's probably just me.

I wonder if you guys could gather all this information and make an entire OP about these things as I'm sure that many new players won't see this post. Such information should really be more accessible...

No problem, happy to help.

I could probably make a basic Helena guide thing when I have time. School just has me busy, but maybe when I have free time I will.

 

[DR2K]

So after playing lr for a bit, helena doesn't feel like she changed at all

except 8pp2p isn't wonky anymore and now on 33p's nh you need to go into flappy hands

Also if you guys like doing 9p4pp as a string it's bad now simply because if now causes a knockdown

33p was her most important tool in terms of getting in and starting stun pressure. She no longer has that, which is why they made all her 44p and the like safe. The way LR handles inputs makes 33 motions a bitch to do in combos.

Her bt 44k also feels extra sluggish, not sure if it was nerfed even more than the extra recovery frames added.

All her throw damage nerfs hurt. They already sucked, so making them worse doesn't make much sense.

Side note: the new bko 44p is fucking up my power launcher combos. 3 p+k feels weird.

She's a lot worse than before. Just wait on the next set nerfs.

 

[Yurlungur]

I personally think she was fine in ultimate, I also thought alpha was perfectly balanced in ultimate but these nerfs feel more like people completely whining

Like, do i have to adapt to the point where my character isn't viable anymore?

 

[DR2K]

I personally think she was fine in ultimate, I also thought alpha was perfectly balanced in ultimate but these nerfs feel more like people completely whining

Like, do i have to adapt to the point where my character isn't viable anymore?

Yeah she also got a damage nerf for her hand slap and most of the variations. Which was pointless. Was anyone complaining about all the big damage she was doing? What she excelled at was putting you in stun and making you guess.

Really hope they reconsider some of these nerfs or give her something to compensate.

 

[Zack117]

The way LR handles inputs makes 33 motions a bitch to do in combos.

Has something changed from vanilla/Ultimate to LR regarding inputs?

I must agree on this. I'm playing Helena only for about a month now but 33P became my favorite move of her. Easily. It worked so well as a crush, combo starter and going-in. Now it only stuns on CH which makes it inconsistent for me. And I hate inconsistencies. Still trying to find a replacement...

Since I ever started playing games seriously, dealing with game mechanics, meta game etc. (mostly in FPS, 3rdPS) I have often went lucky on picking my tools. Lucky to have them nerfed. Looks like DOA is no exception here as Helena seems to be the most nerfed character from the transition to LR.

I cannot tell if she deserves it or not, but only that I'm going to continue learning her. She has so many tools that still make up for this nerf, imo. It's still most unfortunate and I hope they won't do this with other moves of her in the future.

 

[AsheMann21]

Has something changed from vanilla/Ultimate to LR regarding inputs?

I must agree on this. I'm playing Helena only for about a month now but 33P became my favorite move of her. Easily. It worked so well as a crush, combo starter and going-in. Now it only stuns on CH which makes it inconsistent for me. And I hate inconsistencies. Still trying to find a replacement...

Since I ever started playing games seriously, dealing with game mechanics, meta game etc. (mostly in FPS, 3rdPS) I have often went lucky on picking my tools. Lucky to have them nerfed. Looks like DOA is no exception here as Helena seems to be the most nerfed character from the transition to LR.

I cannot tell if she deserves it or not, but only that I'm going to continue learning her. She has so many tools that still make up for this nerf, imo. It's still most unfortunate and I hope they won't do this with other moves of her in the future.

Now that's the spirit. Keep on learning her!

Regarding input changes, BKO 66P which used to launch has now been replaced by the normal 66P. The launcher itself is now BKO 3P+K. Another thing is 8PP2P can be done by 8P2_P (hold 2P).

Well, no use crying over spilled milk. Guess we have to make the best out of her tools now (like incorporating 66P which I find pointless btw)