ChainCombo
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I've been looking for Tanii videos as @EMPEROR_COW suggested but I can't find squat. Makes me wanna 46P a bitch.
Hitomi is too weak
- Thread starter Sachertorte
- Start date
SteakHachey
Member
I wasn't able to find them, can you post the links of the vids here please?
Sachertorte
New Member
First and foremost I want to thank tokyopewpew for his clear and helpful answer, changes from the pretentious one I got just before him.
I stand by what I said though(I'll come to it later).
You are right about her parry tools, but while those are very good against character you can easily predict, I don't see myself using it against mashers like Christie scrubs.
The reason to that is just the same, unpredictable and too fast.
Many people will say that Christie is easy to read, huge mistake! Her mix-up options are there, they exist, it's just that too many people who use her are just in for easy mode combos and moves, and have no idea what they do since with christie you can just mash out 80% of your wins.
While I think Hitomi is decent too, I can't help but notice the unbalance between her and those "mashing" type characters that demand absolutely no skill (Such as Christie).
You tell me about Jann Lee, that's alright.
But I can't expect to win a whole fight, based on only one read, it's not like every Jann lee player will go for the same combo and mix-up everytime.
What Hitomi needs are tools, tools to beat out mashers as they deserve it.
When a freaking christie does unsafe strings, it should be what it is, unsafe, a simple 6P doesn't go through somebody who mashes repeatedly PPPP? This is bullshit, and sorry if I don't simply mash out 2P all the time.
At first I thought it was the lag, but no, it's just how it is, you can only counter certain of her moves as Hitomi, and I'm not very good with holds so I prefer not to mash them.
But it seems like you really need to hold sometimes, and that's unfair.
For the others who talk to me about Ein, what do I care about Ein? If anything, that makes it only worse to know there are characters even weaker, the balance in this game has some limits, they trust player to make good holds way too much.
Holds should be a tool, not a mandatory mechanic.
I stand by what I said though(I'll come to it later).
You are right about her parry tools, but while those are very good against character you can easily predict, I don't see myself using it against mashers like Christie scrubs.
The reason to that is just the same, unpredictable and too fast.
Many people will say that Christie is easy to read, huge mistake! Her mix-up options are there, they exist, it's just that too many people who use her are just in for easy mode combos and moves, and have no idea what they do since with christie you can just mash out 80% of your wins.
While I think Hitomi is decent too, I can't help but notice the unbalance between her and those "mashing" type characters that demand absolutely no skill (Such as Christie).
You tell me about Jann Lee, that's alright.
But I can't expect to win a whole fight, based on only one read, it's not like every Jann lee player will go for the same combo and mix-up everytime.
What Hitomi needs are tools, tools to beat out mashers as they deserve it.
When a freaking christie does unsafe strings, it should be what it is, unsafe, a simple 6P doesn't go through somebody who mashes repeatedly PPPP? This is bullshit, and sorry if I don't simply mash out 2P all the time.
At first I thought it was the lag, but no, it's just how it is, you can only counter certain of her moves as Hitomi, and I'm not very good with holds so I prefer not to mash them.
But it seems like you really need to hold sometimes, and that's unfair.
For the others who talk to me about Ein, what do I care about Ein? If anything, that makes it only worse to know there are characters even weaker, the balance in this game has some limits, they trust player to make good holds way too much.
Holds should be a tool, not a mandatory mechanic.
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Sachertorte
New Member
But here is the thing, Hitomi is not easy to play even at a beginner level.
She is made to "begin" on a good foot, to teach you how to play without mashing, be honest and smart with your moves, you can never win as Hitomi by mashing because her strings are easy to hold and those who have mix-ups need precise timing, which a scrub will never bother to do.
The devs are credulously smart, and created a set of characters who demand no skill to play and are easy as can be, those are the Ninjas, which as a matter of fact are the ones that every scrub in this game is using.
I don't agree that Hitomi is EZ, she demands patience and training to be good with even when you start and a beginner who uses her will lose a lot of time against scrub ninjas.
The amount of ignorance in the above posts with regard to the game and certain characters is painful. If someone is losing to "mashing", it is their responsibility to learn how to deal with mashing. No Christie player that mashes mindlessly offline will win anything against a competent player. She is a complex character with a lot of techniques to get down before she can be used properly. I use both Hitomi & Christie, and Hitomi is miles easier to use, though I will admit that Christie's tools are stronger overall however since she is harder to use. Christie is also less safe overall than Hitomi if you know their frame data. If someone is losing to "Christie scrubs", it makes you wonder who the "scrub" actually is. Though if it's online, you have to throw the rule book out the window. Ironically Hitomi players generally get accused the most of "mashing" or "scrubby" play online.
As for the ninjas, none of them are "scrub" characters. Ayane, Phase-4 & Hayabusa, in particular are very challenging to use and Raidou, Kasumi & Hayate aren't exactly braindead easy. Momiji's pretty easy but she's essentially in a similar boat to Hitomi: Easy-to-use, Hard-to-master. The point with Ein is that if you're whining about Hitomi struggles, you're indirectly shitting on Ein players, who have to go through the same struggles but even worse. I'm pretty sure Ein players would love to have Hitomi's 9H and pressure mix-up game. As for balance, DOA5LR is one of the most balanced fighting games out there (only really the VF games are more balanced overall). In some 2D fighters 7-3 & 8-2 MU's can be a regular thing. In DOA5LR, MU's are almost entirely 5-5 or 6-4 with very, very occasional 7-3's.
As for the ninjas, none of them are "scrub" characters. Ayane, Phase-4 & Hayabusa, in particular are very challenging to use and Raidou, Kasumi & Hayate aren't exactly braindead easy. Momiji's pretty easy but she's essentially in a similar boat to Hitomi: Easy-to-use, Hard-to-master. The point with Ein is that if you're whining about Hitomi struggles, you're indirectly shitting on Ein players, who have to go through the same struggles but even worse. I'm pretty sure Ein players would love to have Hitomi's 9H and pressure mix-up game. As for balance, DOA5LR is one of the most balanced fighting games out there (only really the VF games are more balanced overall). In some 2D fighters 7-3 & 8-2 MU's can be a regular thing. In DOA5LR, MU's are almost entirely 5-5 or 6-4 with very, very occasional 7-3's.
Lulu
Well-Known Member
I actually have the most difficulty wielding Momiji...... but its mostly an execution thing.
I think I'm most proud of my performance with....whats her face..... lol Kasumi (lol I forgot her name for a second). I'm never going to be happy with my Hayabusa..... not while Master is still playing this game. Even when I win competently the voice in my head is like: "Master can do better !"
I think I'm most proud of my performance with....whats her face..... lol Kasumi (lol I forgot her name for a second). I'm never going to be happy with my Hayabusa..... not while Master is still playing this game. Even when I win competently the voice in my head is like: "Master can do better !"
Hitomi's "mix-up pressure game" is non-existent when her strings are slow enough to be interrupted by i12 moves and below. She doesn't have a crouching low in-string, she doesn't have crouching lows that stun on NH, she lacks mid-mid and mid-low (6K2K doesn't ciunt due to it being slow af)/mixups, her "safety" only gets her so far since her string delay is slow af, her punch parry is inferior to Leifang and Marie's since it's a reset, her stun game is shit, her throws are OK, she is easily beaten by OHs and crushes, etc.
Her saving grace is her good damage output, particularly on single strikes, her range, her wall damage, whiff punishment and 6K (and 7PK) and 3K since it's follow-ups are quick enough to not be interrupted.
Ein players, I'm sorry, but I couldn't care less about him. If you want Ein to have Hitomi's tools, just play Hitomi. I'm shitting on her because I used to main her before switching to Marie as my main who IMHO has vastly superior tools (Rondo, better stun game, Minuet, OHs, advanced holds) even without strong whiff punishment tools.
Not to say Hitomi is bad. In comparison, she's just average (barely above average) compared to the rest of the cast. If Hitomi had her frame traps then she would be great. But nope. All gone. She isn't a viable tournament character. Vanessa was great with Hitomi back in the day who actually used her in a way that made her actually usable in tournaments, but I'm not sure if she still participates in tournaments anymore.
Her saving grace is her good damage output, particularly on single strikes, her range, her wall damage, whiff punishment and 6K (and 7PK) and 3K since it's follow-ups are quick enough to not be interrupted.
Ein players, I'm sorry, but I couldn't care less about him. If you want Ein to have Hitomi's tools, just play Hitomi. I'm shitting on her because I used to main her before switching to Marie as my main who IMHO has vastly superior tools (Rondo, better stun game, Minuet, OHs, advanced holds) even without strong whiff punishment tools.
Not to say Hitomi is bad. In comparison, she's just average (barely above average) compared to the rest of the cast. If Hitomi had her frame traps then she would be great. But nope. All gone. She isn't a viable tournament character. Vanessa was great with Hitomi back in the day who actually used her in a way that made her actually usable in tournaments, but I'm not sure if she still participates in tournaments anymore.
I would kill to have any decent mixup with Ein. Hell, safety in general would be nice.
TLDWR - She's fine.
When I began learning Hitomi a while ago I asked @LordXav1er for a few tips about playing her. I was playing her similarly to how I play Ein but more aggressively and with much better mixup. Xavier kind of cemented a difference between Ein and Hitomi to me in one word that really stands out with how Hitomi could be played to make her better but not everybody likes to play that particular direction.
Yes you have to struggle to get an offense going but once you do find resets to keep an offense going to prevent yourself from losing that offense.
Ein gets his small bursts in comparison but they are not nearly as good as Hitomi's and the only thing she doesn't beat him at is reach and whiff punishment.
Some of her best resets come from her 2H+K sweeps and leave her at respectable advantage. Yes it has it's hold risks but so long as you persist they should start to hit fewer buttons once you establish that you can keep the resets going.
Saying you won't use her parry because it won't work is not a very good approach, I felt the same way about Bayman's parry when I started using him but it turned out that it was a very good turnaround and pressure tool. And Bayman is one of the slowest characters in the game that Hitomi outclasses in speed. Most mashers will not be hitting lows and more often than not will be using punches. Free advantage, keep it when you earn it.
TLDWR - She's fine.
When I began learning Hitomi a while ago I asked @LordXav1er for a few tips about playing her. I was playing her similarly to how I play Ein but more aggressively and with much better mixup. Xavier kind of cemented a difference between Ein and Hitomi to me in one word that really stands out with how Hitomi could be played to make her better but not everybody likes to play that particular direction.
Yes you have to struggle to get an offense going but once you do find resets to keep an offense going to prevent yourself from losing that offense.
Ein gets his small bursts in comparison but they are not nearly as good as Hitomi's and the only thing she doesn't beat him at is reach and whiff punishment.
Some of her best resets come from her 2H+K sweeps and leave her at respectable advantage. Yes it has it's hold risks but so long as you persist they should start to hit fewer buttons once you establish that you can keep the resets going.
Saying you won't use her parry because it won't work is not a very good approach, I felt the same way about Bayman's parry when I started using him but it turned out that it was a very good turnaround and pressure tool. And Bayman is one of the slowest characters in the game that Hitomi outclasses in speed. Most mashers will not be hitting lows and more often than not will be using punches. Free advantage, keep it when you earn it.
^This times 1000
LordXav1er's an amazing Hitomi player too that won a tournament with her last month IIRC. I have seen firsthand how much Ein can struggle, but the tools that Hitomi possesses alleviates ALOT of those challenges.
Sachertorte
New Member
No Christie player that mashes mindlessly offline will win anything against a competent player
I have no idea how to start, I'll answer force_of_nature, but the reason I don't how where or how to start is because I'm literally pissing myself laughing at the concentrated load of crap I'm reading there.
For you to say that Christie is more complex and has a lot of techniques how do I take some this deluded seriously ?
But wait, even better she is HARDER to use than Hitomi?
Come the **** on this guy can't be serious, I have a hard time thinking there is anyone with brains here who can this kind of statement seriously.
You talk a lot of stuff, but here is what I see:
-You don't play Hitomi
-You play ninjas (so your opinion is hereby biased)
-You just parrot the same stuff we see everywhere
-And you end up with the 1000th message : " Look that pro player did it, so Hitomi is great"
I mean who cares?
And for the love of god, I don't give two flying , you know what, about Ein, stop with this , I don't see how Ein is relevant on the subject, just because that one guy brought it up out of nowhere now everyone is talking about how he is bad or whatever.
So let's start with the complex character, that is so hard to play that every single scrub in this game picks her right away when they see how cheap and overpowered she is.
Literally, the whole play with Christie is just to mash out anything you possibly want while mixing up between her low sweeps or PK sidesteps.
Just take her low punch that is unavoidable it's only 14 ******* frames and here is the best thing : She is the only one who has a whole low punch string follow-up.
2PPP ? 14~18 frames being active on the very first ones? Who are we kidding here?
I've seen so many people spam out that shit whenever they are in difficulty, and why not? I mean it works, it even counters mid because it's too fast for what it is and I have yet to see someone counter or hold it when they can.
Your game is so balanced, that it counts low punch as a "low" when they should be mids, but whatever.
I have picked christie myself and win against A+ rank people, because I'm telling you, it's so easy to lose against Christie scrubs in this game, when you actually play in an honest way and respect your opponent you will just get hit by people mashing or grabbing when you expect it the least.
And the reason I win is because not only she is fast but her delay strings are easy to perform too, I can just fool everyone into holding mids (since they expect mostly mids with Christie) And throw.
Her CB combos can be done by inputting only 2 simple as shit strings that even the lowest noob can perform, it's takes no freaking skill to do so.
Christie is a character that demands absolutely no skill AT ALL, you can win with her by simple mash and easy combos you can learn and execute in one hour because they are so assisted you don't even need to learn how to cacnel, recovery is as fast as execution with her, which means that you won't have to put in strict timing when mashing, anything works.
She is the character every tournament player uses, since they know how strong and easy she is, she has moves that go through stuff that wouldn't work in normal times, sorry but being a "fast" character is not an excuse, it just means that she is braindead and allow for bullshit to apply itself.
I'm not going to discuss even more about you saying that Ninjas aren't scrub characters, when their whole point in the cast is to help beginners get in the game and win without proper training, they are the literal Shotos of Dead or Alive.
All I see is people who don't play Hitomi telling me that no she is fine and that Christie isn't op blah blah blah.
Casually, the few people who use her, seem to agree with me, how is that for a fact ?
So how is that? I'd like to know more of the Hitomi players, people who play Hitomi, since she is so easy to use there should be many more right?
Hitomi is a character that you cannot win by using gimmicks or mashing, it simply is impossible, her simple strings are super predictible and limited, her fastest moves are most of the time highs.
Her mid strikes are averagely slow for what they should be, when I need to answer unsafe moves from the other guy I have to use 16 frames mids?
You think I'll get away with that against mashers and mid hold mashers?
Most of her long range attacks and mid punches have ridiculously low execution frames, at times you are just forced to mash highs but you end up losing to lows in that case because high punches aren't good for punishing moves and whiffs.
What I'm trying to say is that sadly, the only way to play Hitomi is to be serious, like completely respecting your opponent and going in mix-ups and throw games.
If I'm using Tina which is my sub, I know how I beat mashers who won't ever guard, I have an answer for this.
Hitomi, most of her moves will lose, that's the only way I can put it, her frames aren't balanced the way they should and I think it is because of ninja players who whined too much about her in the past.
I have stacked some replays of the kind of BS I'm talking about, I'm just thinking of a way to show it so that I can prove my point with serious stuff.
I have wirtten already too much and I have much more to say, and answer XZero, which for him, no offense meant but the only thing I picked from your post is :
"Most mashers will not be hitting lows and more often than not will be using punches"
Either you don't know what you're talking about, or we do not understand each other.
I'm not saying her parry will not work, but what advice is this? you think it's the solution to the problems, I just need to spam her parry?
That move is for precise reading, the kind of read you won't do against characters like Hayaboosa or Christie.
And again Hitomi is a simple character, she doesn't have many tools, when playing here it is important to throw a lot, I can even tell that you don't want to combo too much with her but rather using setups.
I'm talking basics here.
I have no idea how to start, I'll answer force_of_nature, but the reason I don't how where or how to start is because I'm literally pissing myself laughing at the concentrated load of crap I'm reading there.
For you to say that Christie is more complex and has a lot of techniques how do I take some this deluded seriously ?
But wait, even better she is HARDER to use than Hitomi?
Come the **** on this guy can't be serious, I have a hard time thinking there is anyone with brains here who can this kind of statement seriously.
You talk a lot of stuff, but here is what I see:
-You don't play Hitomi
-You play ninjas (so your opinion is hereby biased)
-You just parrot the same stuff we see everywhere
-And you end up with the 1000th message : " Look that pro player did it, so Hitomi is great"
I mean who cares?
And for the love of god, I don't give two flying , you know what, about Ein, stop with this , I don't see how Ein is relevant on the subject, just because that one guy brought it up out of nowhere now everyone is talking about how he is bad or whatever.
So let's start with the complex character, that is so hard to play that every single scrub in this game picks her right away when they see how cheap and overpowered she is.
Literally, the whole play with Christie is just to mash out anything you possibly want while mixing up between her low sweeps or PK sidesteps.
Just take her low punch that is unavoidable it's only 14 ******* frames and here is the best thing : She is the only one who has a whole low punch string follow-up.
2PPP ? 14~18 frames being active on the very first ones? Who are we kidding here?
I've seen so many people spam out that shit whenever they are in difficulty, and why not? I mean it works, it even counters mid because it's too fast for what it is and I have yet to see someone counter or hold it when they can.
Your game is so balanced, that it counts low punch as a "low" when they should be mids, but whatever.
I have picked christie myself and win against A+ rank people, because I'm telling you, it's so easy to lose against Christie scrubs in this game, when you actually play in an honest way and respect your opponent you will just get hit by people mashing or grabbing when you expect it the least.
And the reason I win is because not only she is fast but her delay strings are easy to perform too, I can just fool everyone into holding mids (since they expect mostly mids with Christie) And throw.
Her CB combos can be done by inputting only 2 simple as shit strings that even the lowest noob can perform, it's takes no freaking skill to do so.
Christie is a character that demands absolutely no skill AT ALL, you can win with her by simple mash and easy combos you can learn and execute in one hour because they are so assisted you don't even need to learn how to cacnel, recovery is as fast as execution with her, which means that you won't have to put in strict timing when mashing, anything works.
She is the character every tournament player uses, since they know how strong and easy she is, she has moves that go through stuff that wouldn't work in normal times, sorry but being a "fast" character is not an excuse, it just means that she is braindead and allow for bullshit to apply itself.
I'm not going to discuss even more about you saying that Ninjas aren't scrub characters, when their whole point in the cast is to help beginners get in the game and win without proper training, they are the literal Shotos of Dead or Alive.
All I see is people who don't play Hitomi telling me that no she is fine and that Christie isn't op blah blah blah.
Casually, the few people who use her, seem to agree with me, how is that for a fact ?
So how is that? I'd like to know more of the Hitomi players, people who play Hitomi, since she is so easy to use there should be many more right?
Hitomi is a character that you cannot win by using gimmicks or mashing, it simply is impossible, her simple strings are super predictible and limited, her fastest moves are most of the time highs.
Her mid strikes are averagely slow for what they should be, when I need to answer unsafe moves from the other guy I have to use 16 frames mids?
You think I'll get away with that against mashers and mid hold mashers?
Most of her long range attacks and mid punches have ridiculously low execution frames, at times you are just forced to mash highs but you end up losing to lows in that case because high punches aren't good for punishing moves and whiffs.
What I'm trying to say is that sadly, the only way to play Hitomi is to be serious, like completely respecting your opponent and going in mix-ups and throw games.
If I'm using Tina which is my sub, I know how I beat mashers who won't ever guard, I have an answer for this.
Hitomi, most of her moves will lose, that's the only way I can put it, her frames aren't balanced the way they should and I think it is because of ninja players who whined too much about her in the past.
I have stacked some replays of the kind of BS I'm talking about, I'm just thinking of a way to show it so that I can prove my point with serious stuff.
I have wirtten already too much and I have much more to say, and answer XZero, which for him, no offense meant but the only thing I picked from your post is :
"Most mashers will not be hitting lows and more often than not will be using punches"
Either you don't know what you're talking about, or we do not understand each other.
I'm not saying her parry will not work, but what advice is this? you think it's the solution to the problems, I just need to spam her parry?
That move is for precise reading, the kind of read you won't do against characters like Hayaboosa or Christie.
And again Hitomi is a simple character, she doesn't have many tools, when playing here it is important to throw a lot, I can even tell that you don't want to combo too much with her but rather using setups.
I'm talking basics here.
UpSideDownGRUNT
Well-Known Member
Excuse me, but I use Hitomi and she's a solid mid tier character, she could a couple buffs here and there maybe but she is in NO WAY weak or in a bad way.
Christie isn't brain dead to use and every example you gave was ONLINE... So you mashed your way past a A+ what is that supposed to mean? Rank means absolutely nothing online because literally anyone can boost their way to diamond.
And if you don't play offline then you can't really have any say in who is weak or strong because online takes frames and throw them out of the window.
Christie isn't brain dead to use and every example you gave was ONLINE... So you mashed your way past a A+ what is that supposed to mean? Rank means absolutely nothing online because literally anyone can boost their way to diamond.
And if you don't play offline then you can't really have any say in who is weak or strong because online takes frames and throw them out of the window.
TLDR.
U Mad bro?
@UpSideDownGRUNT pretty much summed up my position. The reason I know Christie is harder to use than Hitomi is because I'VE USED BOTH CHARACTERS BEFORE. However, I won't deny that Christie's tools are stronger than Hitomi's because Christie technically requires more skill to utilize properly. If you're losing to mashing, it's on you to learn how to deal with it. No one else's responsibility. I know how this game is played offline. If you don't understand how Ein relates to Hitomi then you're probably playing her in a limited way. You also seem to get pissy whenever someone brings up someone that has success with Hitomi and only seem to care about the scrubs that also struggle with her. Your ignorance of the ninjas is also hilarious if you've tried Hayabusa or Ayane. I already made the disclaimer that for online play, you need to throw the rule book out the window. I'd be happy to help you out, but you seem more content on whining than contributing something productive. So this seems like a case of "learn2play". I can give some hints for Hitomi:
- Her movement & Korean Back-dash are godlike
- Her 2 deathfists: 236P/Running P & 46P are godlike (236K isn't too bad either thanks to its deceptive range and safety on block)
- Her lows are really good. 2H+K, 1P, 2P, or hell even stuff like PP2K~ can be a handy low poke.
- 9H is incredibly handy against punch heavy characters like Christie forcing them to have to use kicks or lows more often
- 3H+K is an amazing low crush move that becomes abusable due to being safe on block
- 2P+K~ is a solid high crush Mid.
- 3K~ & 6H+K are decent mid-range Mid K pokes
- 6T is an amazing reset grab
- 33T does devastating damage at a wall.
- Hell her wall damage in general is pretty damn good
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Tempest
Well-Known Member
If you're having trouble with certain match-ups, uploading replays and asking for help would probably be a better idea than making threads like this.
Lulu
Well-Known Member
The good news is she has a Tiny Hurtbox so thats a nice advantage..... just for that I'l bump her up one spot on the tierlist.
He's trolling just ignore him LMAO.
While I would also disagree to the statement @Force_of_Nature did when saying Christie is harder to use as Hitomi, I also think you guys should not make that much comparisions to a character who is (almost) indisputable one of the best in the game when talking about Hitomis strengths and weaknesses. Im pretty sure that everyone here knows that the list of characters that top 8 matches and (especially) finals of tournaments were won with would look significantly different if Christie wouldn't be in the game. She might be harder to use when it comes to execution and combos, but surely not when it comes to mind game, offensive and defensive.
Anyway, what I want to point out is that just because Christie is being used by many top players while Hitomi isn't does not mean that she's not a viable tournament character as someone stated above. As comparison, Kasumi is placed in the top 5 or top 10 in the tier list of most players as well, way higher as Hitomi, though the total count of them being used in tournaments is certainly almost the same. There might not be many players using her, but some of them can still reach top 8 with her convincingly and also did so in the past. That means, just because you've seen Hitomi at the lower end of some tier list or being conspicious by her absence in tournaments you've watched doesn't mean you cannot do great with her.
Are you sure that you know her toolset? I already pointed that out in my last posts: she has a couple of moves that are faster than that, therefore no, you don't need to answer with 16 frame attacks or slower. If you're using the wrong things in the wrong situation, then you won't get anywhere, as you might agree.
Therefore, I think it's pretty obvious and easy to understand that you cannot and should not use attacks with a speed of 16 frames or above for retaliation or counter-hit attempts when being in the defense. If you do so, you will get beaten out easily indeed, especially online.
Hitomi has 6P as mid punch and 6K as mid kick, both are 13 frames. She has a 10 frame high punch and a 14 frame high kick. She has a 14 frame low punch that will evade highs and even give her +1 advantage on normal hit, making her speeds partially equal to the fastest characters in the game. Beside those attacks, she can make use of her parry as well as of normal holds.
6K2K is 13 -> 20 frames. Her 2H+K is 19 frames and grants advantage on normal hit due to causing a light stun. These two are equally fast as Kasumi's low openers or pressure tools, and this character is one of the fastest in the game (Hitomis 2H+K is even faster as all of them). So I don't see where she is slow af, @Kirito. You guys should simply stop complaining about speed.
And these things are everything she needs at close range. Having 13 frame mids is not "averagely slow" and becomes equally dangeous to other strikers if you consider how easy she can get (minor) advantage by using her lows. Thereby, it doesn't matter how most of her xxx tools are. You could have 100 or more additional moves that would hit the on the same level but are slower or more unsafe, you are supposed to use the one that serves your purpose best. And if you only got one, then you're gonna use this one. Don't try to be a fancy mix up master by thinking you need to use every single entry of your move list in one match. The only thing you need to is being effective.
Asking if you would get away with those against mid hold mashers is kinda superflous because your opponent has to make the same guess on the hit level and hit type as you do when going for the strike. Hitomi has it actually pretty good in this situation since both of her preferred mid counter hit tools are the same speed (see above). And if you lose to mid hold mashers, then you obviously did not make enough use of Hitomis large high strike arsenal, which you mentioned by yourself.
Anyway, what I want to point out is that just because Christie is being used by many top players while Hitomi isn't does not mean that she's not a viable tournament character as someone stated above. As comparison, Kasumi is placed in the top 5 or top 10 in the tier list of most players as well, way higher as Hitomi, though the total count of them being used in tournaments is certainly almost the same. There might not be many players using her, but some of them can still reach top 8 with her convincingly and also did so in the past. That means, just because you've seen Hitomi at the lower end of some tier list or being conspicious by her absence in tournaments you've watched doesn't mean you cannot do great with her.
Are you sure that you know her toolset? I already pointed that out in my last posts: she has a couple of moves that are faster than that, therefore no, you don't need to answer with 16 frame attacks or slower. If you're using the wrong things in the wrong situation, then you won't get anywhere, as you might agree.
Therefore, I think it's pretty obvious and easy to understand that you cannot and should not use attacks with a speed of 16 frames or above for retaliation or counter-hit attempts when being in the defense. If you do so, you will get beaten out easily indeed, especially online.
Hitomi has 6P as mid punch and 6K as mid kick, both are 13 frames. She has a 10 frame high punch and a 14 frame high kick. She has a 14 frame low punch that will evade highs and even give her +1 advantage on normal hit, making her speeds partially equal to the fastest characters in the game. Beside those attacks, she can make use of her parry as well as of normal holds.
6K2K is 13 -> 20 frames. Her 2H+K is 19 frames and grants advantage on normal hit due to causing a light stun. These two are equally fast as Kasumi's low openers or pressure tools, and this character is one of the fastest in the game (Hitomis 2H+K is even faster as all of them). So I don't see where she is slow af, @Kirito. You guys should simply stop complaining about speed.
And these things are everything she needs at close range. Having 13 frame mids is not "averagely slow" and becomes equally dangeous to other strikers if you consider how easy she can get (minor) advantage by using her lows. Thereby, it doesn't matter how most of her xxx tools are. You could have 100 or more additional moves that would hit the on the same level but are slower or more unsafe, you are supposed to use the one that serves your purpose best. And if you only got one, then you're gonna use this one. Don't try to be a fancy mix up master by thinking you need to use every single entry of your move list in one match. The only thing you need to is being effective.
Asking if you would get away with those against mid hold mashers is kinda superflous because your opponent has to make the same guess on the hit level and hit type as you do when going for the strike. Hitomi has it actually pretty good in this situation since both of her preferred mid counter hit tools are the same speed (see above). And if you lose to mid hold mashers, then you obviously did not make enough use of Hitomis large high strike arsenal, which you mentioned by yourself.
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Lulu
Well-Known Member
LoL.... he sounded sincere to me.... maybe its because I don't cross paths with him all that often.
