Community How the FGC community SHOULD treat people

[Argentus]

Oh my god seriously.

I make a thread trying to show a community members better actions, and instead the thread is derailed into throat jumping with false assumptions.
Way to go fgc.

Well since everyone would rather play accuse and defend, I guess let's do that instead.

To start

I no longer renounce juggles entirely, as I did what, 6-7 years ago? They just aren't my style. I've even incorporated a few. But I still prefer ground game over air game. Far far far more rewarding to me.

I understand the want for juggles, but I still believe that there isn't really a need for them. As in, it would do the FGC good to have a high profile fighter that had more realistic physics and gravity. It is my goal to prove that all tools are equally important.

Next, I bitch/vent. A lot. I know this, its in my nature, I have a temper, I'm working on it. Its why I just don't wear a mic, and just try to step away and let things go. What sets me off isn't if I win or lose, its that I get frustrated when I can't figure out what to do.

Next, I AM improving in my chosen approach, and I'm very proud of that fact.

I id accept and integrate relevant advice, such as when I asked how I'm supposed to followup 9p. Its only...."silly" advice that I disregard, like when people try to tell me to stop grappling with grapplers.

On people getting angry, aside from my angry venting...why? I do not directly insult anyone(without good cause). Why does it matter to you if I out the controller down while I wait on juggles to end? Your Goal is guaranteed damage either way. Why is the air game praised but the ground game damned? Why the hypocrisy?

Also, the "using tools in the game for maximum damage"response us an empty Argument so long as people are refusing to even entertain the notion of a fighter without juggles. It reveals people are unwilling to adapt or consider other options.

Some of the things Argentus says are not only incorrect, but borderline offensive. I can very easily see a person... actually, most people in just about ANY competitive scene attacking him for what he does.

A person does everything in their power to win within the games established rules. This is fair, and is the very core of the intended design behind the fighting game genre. It's how we as players evolve into better players, and make the game more interesting the deeper we go. This is not opinion, it is an established fact.

Not everyone wants to accept that. Argentus struggles with it, while on one hand he wants to win, but on the other hand calls things like juggles "boring", even going so far as to put down his controller and walk away from his opponent during a match. That's disrespectful to an incredible degree, but he does things like this on a regular basis. It's pretty much impossible not to get pissed off at a person like Argentus when he does something like that.

He has trouble because he wants things both ways. He wants the satisfaction of winning, but he wants to play his game and not the one that the rest of us are playing. Hence the disrespectful actions.

So more than likely, somebody tried to help Argentus out, Argentus said or did something offensive, and that person got pissed off enough to start making pictures insulting him.

So while I too, still want to help Argentus, my sympathy is at an all time low.

While this does explain a lot of the aggression I get if that's what people truly thibk but its just plain wrong in so many ways. Please don't misinform people.

Here's the thing.

Why limit yourself and your character because of style preference?

If your playing to win and master your character I would say one never reaches that level until the can pull off everything the character can do flawlessly when the situation calls for it.

That's always been my point and my goal.

T

Regarding Mila in particular.

Her damage output is one her strengths but not using juggles your in theory "nerfing" her.

I'm theory yes. In practice people forget her main strength is actually being able to mount off anything, plus versatility.



I'm soaosososososososososotired of people putting words in my mouth that's not what this thread was for godfuckingdammit

 

[Argentus]

@Rikuto @CyberEvil
Sorry for the rant. Very angry at how the thread got derailed almost right off the bat. Feel free to relock it or delete it. I made the thread in an effort to promote some good will in the community, but its obvious nobody is interested in that.

 

[Awesmic]

All I know when I tried helping out when it came to Argentus, I felt like he didn't have to go out on a limb to call me an egomaniac or a "wanna be elitist" indirectly because that is not what I am. I could have easily responded back with a post ragging him, but I didn't. I tried to help him.

To be fair, he indirectly called me that on one point as well, but...

The reason why that I even posted on juggles which originated in the MK thread that I made for us MK fans was to make sure that people weren't misinformed about fighting games, particularly juggles. I'm honestly tired of being quiet for this type of scenario. He's not the only one that has done this, but like I said that's ok. I just know how to tolerate because of how the internet can be. This is when the whole entire fiasco originated tbh. Not only did I try to reason with him, but I tried to tell him what would happen to him by just flat out trying to disregard facts with his opinions.

...For some reason, when I said something similar, he didn't disregard it.

My guess is that the company you kept around you that liked your posts (some of whom are quite more abrasive than you were) led to that assumption on his part that you were an elitist at the appointed time. He's been over that ever since.

It's not the fact that I don't respect his opinion, nor was it anyone else's. As a matter of fact, I can name 4 people that was insulted in other threads. I hardly go past character forums & when I do or did, I found quite a few. I just didn't care to participate in those threads. So yes, he's had his share of it plenty of times. There are no victims here. I just wanted to point that out. It's the fact that you're giving out the wrong perspective to other players about juggles/combos. Even force techs & okizeme in some threads (ground game). Yes, his post can be found insulting, now that I think about it, going back to the thread, when I tagged him in with my 2 posts that I made to him & Nameless-Sama, none of them were insulting towards him, but he responded with a long post, upset with him stating "Oh you're saying that I can't play without juggles?!". The next one after that I ended up telling him why players were going to read & then question him, but he responded with "That means I've backed them into a corner". He's not getting the responses that he's getting because of his opinion. Hell, I even asked Brute to lock the thread for his sake because tons of people came in wanting explanations or wanting to make silly ass jokes towards him.

Now that you mention it, I did make one rather lengthy post about the importance of force techs and its legitimacy in that particular thread. He didn't feel insulted about that.

But that was so long, long ago.

Not only that, he indirectly criticizes players. Not just in DOA, but other's as well. By telling people that his way is a better way & he's going to break that mentality. Play the way that you guys want to, but don't insult or disrespect other players in the community by telling them how YOU like to play the game. Players are going to use everything given to them in the game. That's what makes it up. That's the main reason why he gets the type of responses that he gets from people.

I was never criticized about how I played by him, much less insulted.

I did, however, feel a tad bothered when he occasionally makes no effort to fight back whatsoever. But that was the extent of the problems I had with him personally. He doesn't do that as often anymore, but still...

However, he also may not mean to offend anyone, but it's the way that he posts & how it comes off to people. It's like he doesn't think before he posts. Just posts without any thought of how it may be received by peers around him.

At least he speaks his mind... something I wish I can do without worrying about what others will think.

However, I understand your point regardless.

@Rikuto @CyberEvil
Sorry for the rant. Very angry at how the thread got derailed almost right off the bat. Feel free to relock it or delete it. I made the thread in an effort to promote some good will in the community, but its obvious nobody is interested in that.

If I am to be called a nobody, know that your words didn't completely fall on deaf ears.

I have an idea which may ease that mental struggle you have as an aspiring player. If you care to hear more, send a PM.

 

[Argentus]

To be fair, he indirectly called me that on one point as well, but...


...For some reason, when I said something similar, he didn't disregard it.

My guess is that the company you kept around you that liked your posts (some of whom are quite more abrasive than you were) led to that assumption on his part that you were an elitist at the appointed time. He's been over that ever since.


Now that you mention it, I did make one rather lengthy post about the importance of force techs and its legitimacy in that particular thread. He didn't feel insulted about that.

But that was so long, long ago.


I was never criticized about how I played by him, much less insulted.

I did, however, feel a tad bothered when he occasionally makes no effort to fight back whatsoever. But that was the extent of the problems I had with him personally. He doesn't do that as often anymore, but still...


At least he speaks his mind... something I wish I can do without worrying about what others will think.

However, I understand your point regardless.


If I am to be called a nobody, know that your words didn't completely fall on deaf ears.

I have an idea which may ease that mental struggle you have as an aspiring player. If you care to hear more, send a PM.

Apologies for the generalizations. When I first tried to step into the fgc I....was conditioned to be very defensive with my opinions.


And yes I'm interested hearing.

 

[Tenryuga]

Argentus the fighting game you describe exists already. It is called UFC. That's cool that you prefer mechanics like that but it's not really a refusal to adapt that makes people not want to play a fighting game that doesn't have combos. It's more so at this point it is like a step backward because this isn't the era of simplistic fighting games that lacked frame data and had one button for punch and another for kick.There is also the fact that some of us play games because we like how you can have things that are not realistic happen in them. No normal person could survive the combo on the lower level of scramble that incorporates the powerblow triggered dangerzone and stage dangerzone. But we get to see shit like that cuz its a game and its fuckin awesome.

 

[Jyakotu]

I can kind of sympathize with Argentus to a certain extent. When I play Tekken Tag Tournament 2, I prefer to do Solo and get a lot of shit for it. I also get more shit because I do not like to rely on Bound for my combos, even though that's basically what the game requires. However, I just sort of deal with it and even sometimes, I do use basic combos that rely on Bound. The thing is, I never force my view on anyone, because I see at high level play that Bound is the best way to maximize damage. Tag is the name of the game, thus, more people would expect you to use a team instead of going Solo with a single character. I'll be honest, yes, I am too lazy to practice for Tag 2. The sheer amount of mechanics and match ups I'd have to study to be even remotely competitive just doesn't feel like it's worth my time. However, I still enjoy Tekken Tag Tournament 2 and will not lash out at people who have adapted to the mechanics. But if I can still win without relying on using a tag team or Bound, then I feel even more satisfied with my skills. Fighting games are about adapting and sometimes, we refuse to adapt, but still continue to play because we genuinely enjoy the series.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

Um okay...the hell did I wander into?

In all seriousness I'm seeing alot of points and counterpoints being tossed around and I honestly don't see where this is all headed to in the end.

Argentus basically wants to play the game he wants but from what everyone else, including the well-known points the pros stated, you have done some pretty screwed up things to not earn you brownie points which then I can see why some people are coming off as "hostile".

In my crappy experience of playing online, you sadly have to get ready to play by a whole different set of rules and tactics because no one gives a shit about honor or decency online. From Street Fighter 4 to Blazblue, you will have people do whatever it takes for you to win and they will rag on you if they feel personally disrespected by an action(I honestly believe I have the low ass approval rating on XBL BECAUSE people don't like me beating corpses despite it's something I do), especially if it can be seen as really disrespectful.

You have Mila which is not a truly juggle needed character, but all out removing any level of juggle potential is still a bad idea. Hell, I play Helena, NyoTengu and Momiji and not playing them with Juggle potential is just utter foolishness.
It's your choice to play how you like it's ALSO the opponents' choice in how they react to your choice. If you hate juggles yet decide to leave the stick because I got in a big combo with NyoTengu, I would be utterly livid just like someone would be if they hate corpse beating after the round is over despite me being so accustomed to it after Soul Calibur.

That's choice my friend, you need to live it and love or hate it and walk away.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

^You should add me on XBL, since you live in Nevada. I'd like to play you.

 

[His Reverence]

Also, the "using tools in the game for maximum damage"response us an empty Argument so long as people are refusing to even entertain the notion of a fighter without juggles. It reveals people are unwilling to adapt or consider other options.

lol

Argentus. We ought to play. With her juggles, my Ayane will make you feel like Rose.

 

[Argentus]

Um okay...the hell did I wander into?

In all seriousness I'm seeing alot of points and counterpoints being tossed around and I honestly don't see where this is all headed to in the end.

Argentus basically wants to play the game he wants but from what everyone else, including the well-known points the pros stated, you have done some pretty screwed up things to not earn you brownie points which then I can see why some people are coming off as "hostile".

In my crappy experience of playing online, you sadly have to get ready to play by a whole different set of rules and tactics because no one gives a shit about honor or decency online. From Street Fighter 4 to Blazblue, you will have people do whatever it takes for you to win and they will rag on you if they feel personally disrespected by an action(I honestly believe I have the low ass approval rating on XBL BECAUSE people don't like me beating corpses despite it's something I do), especially if it can be seen as really disrespectful.

You have Mila which is not a truly juggle needed character, but all out removing any level of juggle potential is still a bad idea. Hell, I play Helena, NyoTengu and Momiji and not playing them with Juggle potential is just utter foolishness.
It's your choice to play how you like it's ALSO the opponents' choice in how they react to your choice. If you hate juggles yet decide to leave the stick because I got in a big combo with NyoTengu, I would be utterly livid just like someone would be if they hate corpse beating after the round is over despite me being so accustomed to it after Soul Calibur.

That's choice my friend, you need to live it and love or hate it and walk away.

As I said, I still use some juggles. All its ever been is me trying to defend myself when people get mad at me for not focusing on juggles.

That and I rage when I can't move. Working on that second part.

lol

Argentus. We ought to play. With her juggles, my Ayane will make you feel like Rose.

I'm pretty sure I have played you before.

 

[His Reverence]

I'm pretty sure I have played you before.

Have you? What is your PSN?

 

[Rikuto]

While this does explain a lot of the aggression I get if that's what people truly thibk but its just plain wrong in so many ways. Please don't misinform people.

I'm simply stating how I've seen every conflict between you and another individual break out over the last two years. It could be wrong in this case, but history has shown me it probably isn't.

I'm glad to hear you're improving, though.

 

[lotr9690]

@Argentus I'm sorry to see that you were harassed. I think that I would benefit from not relying on juggles as much as I do. Lately I've been trying to play with Mila and Bayman as a way to get some insight with regards to DOA's ground game. I have to say, all of Bayman's combos ending in 's animation is very satisfying. I played 8 games using Bayman and I didn't lose once. I don't think I can use Bayman and Mila all the time because I'm not 100% comfortable with that strategy, but I can absolutely see that play style is appealing and just as legitimate as juggling. You do you, man

SF4 might be credited with reviving the FGC, but it has caused a greater divide that people do not realize. It's sad when there is in-fighting in a community that is already struggling to begin with. The DOA community has it's negatives, but I overall stick with this community because of how passionate the people are about the game. With that said, we all need to remember that we have a common interest and it is DOA. Petty arguments do not matter, but the game in which we play does. DOA is one of the only two 3D fighting games that is surviving and going to current gen and PC. In order to keep DOA from fading away, we need to step up and speak out against those harrassing players, be it casual or competitive. We all are Fighters and as such, we need to focus on helping each other improve the scene and the game.

I agree. It would behoove us all to take a more cooperative approach when playing this game. I'm not sure why there is so much animosity between people. If live events seemed more welcoming I would have no problem going to events when I'm in the US. Over here (Japan) it's just as competitive but people are more respectful and more comfortable. There's a lot less anxiety and that might have something to do with having so many arcades, you know? We're used to dealing with people. I don't think I've ever had this caliber of drama at the arcade. Some will say, "because there's more casuals!" This is not true. Not only do pros frequent arcades there is also gambling and betting etc. etc.

So I guess what I really mean to say is... when you're playing DOA5U/LR pretend that you are at an arcade. Be friendly; it's okay to friendly tease but don't harass people. If you want to improve your skill with a game you have to the time and effort in. If you want to have a pleasant, competitive climate for the DoA community you have to put the time and effort in, as well.

 

[Rikuto]

Lot of useful stuff you said there that could've been said without coming across that way, BlankOctober.

Feel free to try again.


And for the record, we don't throw anyone out because they feel a certain way. Even if they are completely and utterly wrong. We do throw them out if they are the constant cause of infighting and trouble, however. Try to remember that when addressing your peers.

 

[BlankOctober]

I stand by my now deleted statement.

 

[Rikuto]

Well then it's a pretty good thing I deleted it.

Might want to take some time to reflect on that though.

 

[Tempest]

Has Argentus tried playing a super heavy weight? Not too much juggling going on there, on both sides.

 

[Awesmic]

Has Argentus tried playing a super heavy weight? Not too much juggling going on there, on both sides.

He plays Leon as a secondary, which is close enough.

 

[Xhominid The Demon Within]

^You should add me on XBL, since you live in Nevada. I'd like to play you.

I gotta go buy a XBL Gold card for that, if you have a PS3, I recently got Core Fighters so there's that.

 

[VirtuaKazama]

I don't want to hear any non-competitive player insult the competitive spirit and I don't want to see competitive players using "casual" as a form of insult. Regardless of our reasons for playing the game we are all playing a FIGHTING game. A game in which the goal is to deplete your opponents life-bar to secure victory. As such we will use everything that is available to us to achieve that result because we are not SCRUBS.

SCRUBS are the players who will say things to demean and insult another players style when they take losses. SCRUBS are the players who come up with excuses for everything that inconveniences them. Choosing not to juggle is not scrubby. Some characters in this game like Hitomi can win rounds through pure mix-up and whiff punishment. What's scrubby is choosing not to use juggles for nonsensical reasons or some warped code of "honor" and "skill" then questioning a players ability when you lose to someone who is maximizing damage.

Players have an issue with Argentus not because he is a casual but because he is SCRUB-MINDED and not only refuses to accept basic advice that will only aid his gameplay but also criticizes others and plays the victim when said players call him out for being SCRUB-MINDED. Yes you are free to play the game however you want. Just don't try to advertise your style of play as good, better or even more ideal than others when it's clearly been shown and proven that it is not; Especially when you've been losing alot and making no form of progession as a player using said style of play.

This speaks the truth right here.

I've been reading "From Masher to Master: The Educated Video Game Enthusiast's Fighting Game Primer" and I came across the chapter called "Don't Want No Scrubs" (Shout out to TLC). Patrick Miller, the author of the ebook, made a definition of the scrub:

"The Scrub is the guy who walks into the arcade and thinks he’s hot
shit even though no one has ever seen him around before. He’s the guy
who enters the tournament and refuses to play his competition characters
(or even the fighting games he’s entered entirely) because he
doesn’t want anyone to learn how to “counter” his super-secret techniques.
He may yell at you for throwing him repeatedly, or doing the
same move over and over, because it’s “cheap.” He’s never met you, but
he thinks he could probably beat you, and if you won, well, it’s because
he isn’t used to the arcade sticks, or his hands were cold, or he ate too
much pizza and got grease all over the buttons. (Ew.) And he probably
does way too many wakeup DPs/supers/etc.

Note that I am describing the Scrub mentality (also known as
“Scrubbiness”) independent of any estimation of his actual skill. Scrubs
can learn combos, scrubs can learn matchups, and scrubs can become
quite good at fighting games — good enough to beat you, and even beat
top players every now and then. “Scrub” is not an estimation of one’s
skill, but rather one’s way of thinking about fighting games."

Truth is this (and I'm bouncing off of what Tenryuga said): everyone has a different style of how to play the game. You hate juggling, fine I respect it. But telling other people not to juggle... that's not gonna happen.