MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
So what the game was hated by everyone and it's still guessing. Hell even though top 4 said the game was trash.
I think DOA players need to see this.
- Thread starter MasterHavik
- Start date
JKe SMoker
Member
So why did we nerf the guessing/reading game if we all think it's what defines DOA and we don't care what people think?
Needs more guaranteed damage guys or else this game won't be respected herpderp.
Needs more guaranteed damage guys or else this game won't be respected herpderp.
Honestly as long as "holds" are in this game the fgc will moan about it. It's pretty annoying. But honestly I don't care what they think go back to your fighter. What's annoying is when so called players that's supposed to be part of this community is trying so hard to change DOA to be more like Tekken/VF. Why you start playing the game for in the first place if you prefer those? I feel instead of trying to change something successful for what it is into something it wasn't meant to be, how about you play what makes you feel more comfortable? No one is stopping you. But instead of trying to change the game mechanic to please people who doesn't play it in the first place, how about this community get off it's butt and make a competitive scene? That's the only thing that will make a difference.
They nerfed it because ppl like them bitch about "fighting curves" & counter holds taking up a lot of damage.So they dumbed it down to draw in other crowds. It actually makes the game even MORE COMPETITIVE than it was. Because you can't just CH your way to wins. Just like you can't just pick up a ninja in this game & win.
And they CAN'T be like VF & Tekken. They've got their own style of play. VF is a little bit similar with the mechanics. Tekken has a juggle system but they don't have a counter system like DOA. The thing all got in common is they're 3D fighters. I think it's stupid as fuck to have a war between the 3 when they all good games. I wish people would quit comparing them to each other because everytime you do, there's always somebody in the crowd that starts it off by saying "Tekken's better" or "DOA's better" or "They stole this from VF". What makes it worse half of them don't even own a single damn game of 2 or the 3 but own 1 & still make it like theirs is better. Plus they prolly don't even know shit about them because they haven't played them in a day of their life.
Edit: If you do own all 3 & know about them & like them, obviously I'm not talking to you.
Ultimately, it's up to us to build the community up & support the game the best way we can. Whether if it's showing up at a nearby tournament or traveling to one or for the ones who can't travel & don't have a FG scene, building a scene around your area & host you own tournaments. Go out & recruit as well. I'm not a pro gamer & I haven't been able to travel in recent years to a tournament, but that's what "we" have to do & quit mopping & gripping about it.
Just like the ones who are crying about their characters:learn to adapt. If you don't like your character, hell there's more than 1 character. Try them all out. I'm still learning the game to the full extent rather than just a casual fighter because this is my 1st fighting game I'm looking to take serious. That's what we have to do. Becoming good is not gonna happen overnight. Just have to grind it out & learn the game.
And they CAN'T be like VF & Tekken. They've got their own style of play. VF is a little bit similar with the mechanics. Tekken has a juggle system but they don't have a counter system like DOA. The thing all got in common is they're 3D fighters. I think it's stupid as fuck to have a war between the 3 when they all good games. I wish people would quit comparing them to each other because everytime you do, there's always somebody in the crowd that starts it off by saying "Tekken's better" or "DOA's better" or "They stole this from VF". What makes it worse half of them don't even own a single damn game of 2 or the 3 but own 1 & still make it like theirs is better. Plus they prolly don't even know shit about them because they haven't played them in a day of their life.
Edit: If you do own all 3 & know about them & like them, obviously I'm not talking to you.
Ultimately, it's up to us to build the community up & support the game the best way we can. Whether if it's showing up at a nearby tournament or traveling to one or for the ones who can't travel & don't have a FG scene, building a scene around your area & host you own tournaments. Go out & recruit as well. I'm not a pro gamer & I haven't been able to travel in recent years to a tournament, but that's what "we" have to do & quit mopping & gripping about it.
Just like the ones who are crying about their characters:learn to adapt. If you don't like your character, hell there's more than 1 character. Try them all out. I'm still learning the game to the full extent rather than just a casual fighter because this is my 1st fighting game I'm looking to take serious. That's what we have to do. Becoming good is not gonna happen overnight. Just have to grind it out & learn the game.
JKe SMoker
Member
Again why does making lifebars smaller and more guaranteed damage make a game more competitive? Why nerf counters if it's only a 25% chance to hit and it puts you at risk of getting huge damage? Oh right because on the lifebars that we CHOSE it did alot of damage.
With the lifebars all I can compare it to is skipping to the last part of a match where 2 players have low hp. It's not fun to play like that I want some kind of health-bar that keeps me from getting screwed over by 1 combo and a random counter.
As said before the top players in DOA4 we're always consistent, even on largest life.
With the lifebars all I can compare it to is skipping to the last part of a match where 2 players have low hp. It's not fun to play like that I want some kind of health-bar that keeps me from getting screwed over by 1 combo and a random counter.
As said before the top players in DOA4 we're always consistent, even on largest life.
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
Because everyone sucks at defense and small/smallest will help you become at defense.
The counters shouldn't bother you. And guaranteed damage is only when somebody does something that's unsafe, if they go about punishing you the right way, then you gonna lose damage. It depends on how unsafe your move is. Doesn't have anything to do with smaller health bar
JKe SMoker
Member
All it does is punish whoever gets hit first. That's not what DOA is about and that's not what I like about this game. I like the longer games where you learn to read your opponent.
Just imagine you playing vs a noob. With small life the noob has a way bigger chance of beating you than in large life because there is no reading. The mindgames and the feel of reading your opponent is the only reason I prefer DOA over another fighting game so why reduce that?
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Because you're not supposed to try to get hit.
It sounds to me like you actually bank on it, or simply don't know how to avoid it. You have that exact kind of reckless abandon I want to see get punished from this. What you're doing... is not a good thing. That's not how you're supposed to play a fighter, Smoker.
It sounds to me like you actually bank on it, or simply don't know how to avoid it. You have that exact kind of reckless abandon I want to see get punished from this. What you're doing... is not a good thing. That's not how you're supposed to play a fighter, Smoker.
JKe SMoker
Member
Well yeah I think reading your opponent requires more time than what you have on small or smallest. I don't think your a better player just because you hit someone first. I can agree that "normal = normal and that's how the game is supposed to be" even though I would like bigger life bars for the reasons I mentioned earlier.
I think it has some potential for training yourself to get in that first hit or being more cautious but I don't think those 2 are the things that make people wanna play this game.
Rikuto
P-P-P-P-P-P-POWER!
Your mistake is assuming that the game begins after the first stun.
You're not supposed to constantly adapt after you've been stunned. You're supposed to die. If you get out, if you get out, it's because you either made an exceptional read, you reacted to a slow telegraphed stun extender/launcher, or you were lucky. This is how it's supposed to be.
This is how it HAS to be, because its the only thing giving relevance to the entire 3D movement game that happened beforehand... the part that is actually controllable through human reaction, movement technique and natural intuition.
You're instead playing the in-stun adaptation game as the core game. That's the way the Japanese do it. And that's the reason we destroy them.
You're not supposed to just rush to the stun and then roll the dice. That's not a fighting game, thats gambling.
You're not supposed to constantly adapt after you've been stunned. You're supposed to die. If you get out, if you get out, it's because you either made an exceptional read, you reacted to a slow telegraphed stun extender/launcher, or you were lucky. This is how it's supposed to be.
This is how it HAS to be, because its the only thing giving relevance to the entire 3D movement game that happened beforehand... the part that is actually controllable through human reaction, movement technique and natural intuition.
You're instead playing the in-stun adaptation game as the core game. That's the way the Japanese do it. And that's the reason we destroy them.
You're not supposed to just rush to the stun and then roll the dice. That's not a fighting game, thats gambling.
He's right.
Play some other fighters, especially 2D ones. Some characters in GG, P4A and BB have oki good enough that one hit will kill you because the risk-reward is so skewed. You have to predict right to just to stay alive, not to get damage. P4A and MvC3 have legit kill combos. Getting hit is supposed to be very, very bad.
Play some other fighters, especially 2D ones. Some characters in GG, P4A and BB have oki good enough that one hit will kill you because the risk-reward is so skewed. You have to predict right to just to stay alive, not to get damage. P4A and MvC3 have legit kill combos. Getting hit is supposed to be very, very bad.
JKe SMoker
Member
But the in-stun adaption game is what makes DOA .. well DOA right?
I mean I get it it's more random if you can hold out of a stun but there's a good chance you screwed yourself over doing that. There was always the option to just launch them instead of letting them play that guessing game it was less reward for less risk.
And I don't get why you feel that someone deserves to lose just because they got hit once. I mean getting hit is a bad thing but why does it have to be such a huge deal that once you are back up standing any random counter or attack would probably kill you?
Besides that I think this puts tier lists on a higher priority. If getting the first hit is a must than everyone should play long range chars with safe poke attacks.
I mean I get it it's more random if you can hold out of a stun but there's a good chance you screwed yourself over doing that. There was always the option to just launch them instead of letting them play that guessing game it was less reward for less risk.
And I don't get why you feel that someone deserves to lose just because they got hit once. I mean getting hit is a bad thing but why does it have to be such a huge deal that once you are back up standing any random counter or attack would probably kill you?
Besides that I think this puts tier lists on a higher priority. If getting the first hit is a must than everyone should play long range chars with safe poke attacks.
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
Trust me man this will help out some lower tier characters a lot.
Everyone that could played the stun -> launch or the CH launch game in DOA4 because they didn't want to guess 2-3 more times for +20 damage. It's just not very efficient. How does it make it DOA when it wasn't really feasible in the first place? And DOA4 was the one that introduced increasing stun threshold = increasing launch height. In DOA3 and earlier there was pretty much one launch height, and it hurt. In DOA5 you can't spam holds in-stun, and there's more ways in general to get outside of that stun guessing.
Because it diminishes the meaning of getting hit. All that work properly spacing, timing, predicting, lead up to that hit. It better damn well be worth it, in a way that puts you in a favourable position. Why put in so much work for that hit when you just have to guess again like nothing ever happened? This is why in DOA5 more characters can get actual damage off of whiff punishes and environmental knockback. In DOA4 you got hit onto a wall, who cares you can counter. If you got knocked down on whiff punish, you lose ~30-40 damage and now have a wakeup kick with invincibility, or you can get up and counter. There is a reason these concepts are important to a fighting game.
Murakame
Active Member
I personally I think the holds are a great thing. DOA feels like an actual fight to me due to holds because in real martial arts and in the movies people don't get hit 10 times in a row. They get hit like 2 or 3 times then they dodge the next hit or counter attack. IMO the holds add to what make DOA fights dynamic. I think the people that dislike holds need to get the thought of "If I hit something it has to become a combo" out of their head. They need to recall how combos were discovered: on accident in one of the classic street fighter games.
As for the health bars I think normal setting is fine but largest is pushing it. Fights last longer than they should. I can't say anything about it on smallest because I have yet to play on smallest. It sounds fun though so I'll definitely try it.
As for the health bars I think normal setting is fine but largest is pushing it. Fights last longer than they should. I can't say anything about it on smallest because I have yet to play on smallest. It sounds fun though so I'll definitely try it.
MasterHavik
Well-Known Member
dude fuck a real fight. Sigh..... this why DOA is still miles away from VF and Tekken. they have some type of hold in their games, but it isn't everything like it is here.
Murakame
Active Member
How do they work in those games?
