"I'm no pushover sweetie." - The DOA5 Sarah General Discussion Thread

[BLACKSTAR]

Thing is that even if you enter flamingo on block in VF, even if you're at frame advantage, a low jab is still fast enough to beat out your (FL)3K crumple. That's why you really need that 4K to stuff lows regardless of frame adv/disadv...
This happens with all her transitions into flamingo except for maybe a max range 4K. Entering flamingo with 4K gives you the most frame advantage, and it seems to be the case again in DOA5 as well

you mentioned the thing with lows. if the opponent (in VF) is going to threaten you with a low while in FL, and you read it, you KNOW it's going to be a 2P. pretty much nobody has a fast low outside of 2P -- everything else low that they can do will likely be beaten out everytime (part of the reason FL is scary in VF). so, in my mind, if they are bold enough to 2P me, I'm gonna go for the FL P+K and BLOW HIM UP with a 70+ combo. 2P'ing my FL is high-risk/somewhat-low-reward for them because the only thing they will get is knocking me out of FL, while they risk getting at least a third of their life taken away from them.

Now FL 4K pretty much requires the same yomi to execute successfully, though its somewhat more safe to use (FL P+K probably won't be punished before you can flip out (IMO) if you don't spam it/they don't expect it). So it's the same requirement with less reward in my eyes. But FL 4K is better to use in lower health (50% or below) since it's safer, when you just want some space, when you've already blown your FL P+K cover, or ESPECIALLY when you're near a wall (where you can hit them with a 100+ dmg combo for their troubles)


But then again, DOA might change the entire use of FL, since DOA seems more mixup heavy. And these stupid Sarah nerfs arent helping my outlook (they are actually making me worried). Holdable Just Frame K's? How stoopid is that?! that's screaming 'plz don't use me @ high lvl' for one of Sarah's best FL options

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

you mentioned the thing with lows. if the opponent (in VF) is going to threaten you with a low while in FL, and you read it, you KNOW it's going to be a 2P. pretty much nobody has a fast low outside of 2P -- everything else low that they can do will likely be beaten out everytime (part of the reason FL is scary in VF). so, in my mind, if they are bold enough to 2P me, I'm gonna go for the FL P+K and BLOW HIM UP with a 70+ combo. 2P'ing my FL is high-risk/somewhat-low-reward for them because the only thing they will get is knocking me out of FL, while they risk getting at least a third of their life taken away from them.

Now FL 4K pretty much requires the same yomi to execute successfully, though its somewhat more safe to use (FL P+K probably won't be punished before you can flip out (IMO) if you don't spam it/they don't expect it). So it's the same requirement with less reward in my eyes. But FL 4K is better to use in lower health (50% or below) since it's safer, when you just want some space, when you've already blown your FL P+K cover, or ESPECIALLY when you're near a wall (where you can hit them with a 100+ dmg combo for their troubles)


But then again, DOA might change the entire use of FL, since DOA seems more mixup heavy. And these stupid Sarah nerfs arent helping my outlook (they are actually making me worried). Holdable Just Frame K's? How stoopid is that?! that's screaming 'plz don't use me @ high lvl' for one of Sarah's best FL options

Trust me she's really good in DOA5.. her damage output from juggles is beastly... and boy can she juggle ..

in VF I tended to avoid (FL)P+K because you're still risking being in the opponents face and the timing of the P+K itself is very strict .. (FL) 4K always felt right.. Dont get me wrong though, a successful (FL) P+K is far more rewarding I agree.. but being too close to the opponent and waving your leg around... its too damn risky ... you're vulnerable to a throw... and in DOA (FL) P+K is considered a HOLD.. meaning throws will deal HI COUNTER damage (150% damage). now think of that with one of Bass or Tina's crazy damage throws .. Yup, not pretty. Plus as you already know, you cant block in flamingo .. so its fucked... I think (FL) 4K with jump frames is essential ..

I don't consider her NERFED.. I just consider her strategies in DOA... different...
Think of this ... with a game heavily dependent on HOLDs... her baiting becomes a lot more lethal.. for example .. canceling her 3KK by doing 3KKH (into flamingo)... If the opponent holds .. you own them... BADLY .. that's just one example...

Trust me .. shes good..

Update:
You CAN HOLD out of her just frame 4PKK (on both normal hit and critical stun)
you CANNOT HOLD out of her (FL) P2KKK just frame !!!! (on both normal hit and critical stun!! ) .. THIS IS AWESOME !!!!

Trust me she's really good in DOA5.. her damage output from juggles is beastly... and boy can she juggle ..

in VF I tended to avoid (FL)P+K because you're still risking being in the opponents face and the timing of the P+K itself is very strict .. (FL) 4K always felt right.. Dont get me wrong though, a successful (FL) P+K is far more rewarding I agree.. but being too close to the opponent and waving your leg around... its too damn risky ... you're vulnerable to a throw... and in DOA (FL) P+K is considered a HOLD.. meaning throws will deal HI COUNTER damage (150% damage). now think of that with one of Bass or Tina's crazy damage throws .. Yup, not pretty. Plus as you already know, you cant block in flamingo .. so its fucked... I think (FL) 4K with jump frames is essential ..

I don't consider her NERFED.. I just consider her strategies in DOA... different...
Think of this ... with a game heavily dependent on HOLDs... her baiting becomes a lot more lethal.. for example .. canceling her 3KK by doing 3KKH (into flamingo)... If the opponent holds .. you own them... BADLY .. that's just one example...

Trust me .. shes good..

Update:
You CAN HOLD out of her just frame 4PKK (on both normal hit and critical stun)
you CANNOT HOLD out of her (FL) P2KKK just frame !!!! (on both normal hit and critical stun!! ) .. THIS IS AWESOME !!!!

2nd update:
ok this is fucked ...
(FL) P+K only beats LOW PUNCHES in DOA .. ok that's a fucking nerf ...its fucking useless .. HARDLY ANYONE DOES LOW PUNCH IN DOA...

in VF5FS (FL)P+K beat all LOWs ... (punches and kicks)

 

[ScattereDreams]

(FL) P+K only beats LOW PUNCHES in DOA .. ok that's a fucking nerf ...its fucking useless .. HARDLY ANYONE DOES LOW PUNCH IN DOA.

Bait it well

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

Bait it well

there's no baiting in the matter its too risky to be in flamingo after a knockdown now ...
and unless you're fighting like Ayane, Kasumi, or possibly bayman .. I dont think its likely to have a Parry specific to fucking LOW P ever connect ...

Her defense in Flamingo stance is extremely poor with no LOW crush, no MID P attack (same as VF), and now no punish for LOW K .. and her MID kicks in flamingo are extremely slow ..

I don't understand why they would do something stupid like that ..


after knockdown you had the 50/50 of either punishing the low in VF or going for the Moonsault over all wakeups. Now .. its just shit .. no mixup ..you're better off getting out of flamingo .. at least you can hold..

 

[BLACKSTAR]

Trust me she's really good in DOA5.. her damage output from juggles is beastly... and boy can she juggle ..

in VF I tended to avoid (FL)P+K because you're still risking being in the opponents face and the timing of the P+K itself is very strict .. (FL) 4K always felt right.. Dont get me wrong though, a successful (FL) P+K is far more rewarding I agree.. but being too close to the opponent and waving your leg around... its too damn risky ... you're vulnerable to a throw... and in DOA (FL) P+K is considered a HOLD.. meaning throws will deal HI COUNTER damage (150% damage). now think of that with one of Bass or Tina's crazy damage throws .. Yup, not pretty. Plus as you already know, you cant block in flamingo .. so its fucked... I think (FL) 4K with jump frames is essential ..

Allow me to be a little blunt. If you're getting thrown in FL stance EVER, then you are doing something WAAAY wrong. Not you meaninig 'you', of course, just in general. From my experience with VF Sarah, actions in when getting into FL stance are nearly instant -- you plan in advance, and when you use 4K/P+K/4P+K/whatever, you check your opponent's state during the last contact of the move (blocked or not) and fire off your FL stance move. There is no waiting, and there's never any time for your opponent to figure out what to do, or let alone look for a throw attempt. The opponent literally takes a guess and runs with it. Now usually in FL, you do P2KKK, 2K->P+G,3K,4K,whatever. Throwing in a FL P+K somewhere in between (where you are making a read), the opponent wont have time to react safely if it whiffs (the animation isn't that long IMO).

For example, say like 20 seconds in a VF match I do 4K-->FL, then do FL P+K and it whiffs. As long as I wasn't stupid enough to spam it out already, the opponent doesn't know it's coming, so when he sees it whiff, he cannot react to it until the animations nearly finished. It's not a free punish for him in this case, but it is a 50/50. Throwing would still be a bad idea for the opponent in this case, because if I end up doing FL K immediately, they are smacked with a CH and would end up at -12. It's not a free throw punish at all IMO. The only way he can throw punish me from FL P+K is if he anticipated it while I was entering in FL stance. Even then if his read is wrong, he risks a CH.

And btw, the move in VF is like a 25f window. It's a pretty big window, and if FL stance is being used properly, your opponent should be too scared of a CH from the FL stance to dare delay an attack. Simply put, they will attack or they wont.

Now I'm probably making the move sound better than it is, which is not what I'm trying to do. Its still a big risk, and an obvious red flag on whiff. But by masking your intentions, it's a very powerful and useful tool, I think, which would technically be slightly above 'gimmick status'. And I've certainly never felt trapped into being forced to use FL 4K to cover my options

But at the end of the day, if TN makes FL P+K sabaki LPs only, then the move will be useless in DOA5 anyway..... :/ It feels like TN is trying to neuter the VF characters in order for them to fit in DOA without making every other character look free

 

[Steady G]

2nd update:
ok this is fucked ...
(FL) P+K only beats LOW PUNCHES in DOA .. ok that's a fucking nerf ...its fucking useless .. HARDLY ANYONE DOES LOW PUNCH IN DOA...

in VF5FS (FL)P+K beat all LOWs ... (punches and kicks)

Hmmm not quite. Im pretty sure Tina and Hitomi players would punch low haha. Remember their panic move? 1P or 3P (depending on which side they are on, left or right)

 

[Chaos]

Judging by watching some videos, Sarah looks REALLY scary to fight against. what ever you do, DO NOT COUNTER HOLD WHEN YOUR BACK IS AGAINST A WALL!!!

 

[EMPEROR_COW]

snip

This is all understandable in VF.. this is DOA...
without a Jump move in FL stance ... DOA's offensive holds say hello... beating all your FL options .. ALL OF THEM.. except for maybe 2H+K as thats the only move that puts her in crouch in FL stance...

She NEEDS her (jump) property in FL 4K

and she needs the damn FL P+K Sabaki to work like it did in VF .. anti LOW P AND anti LOW K .. now its just useless and for taunting...

 

[DrDogg]

I told Cow what was up on Twitter, but since he's also complaining here I guess I'll add my $0.02. Sarah is fine how she is. If Cow wants her to play exactly like VF5:FS Sarah, he should be playing VF5:FS.

As it stands, Sarah can defend against low attacks while in FL. She doesn't have as many options to do so in DOA5 compared to VF, but her opposition doesn't have the same options as VF5 characters either. It balances out well, and Cow complaining about it is pretty ridiculous.

If you can't get around low attacks with Sarah in FL in DOA5, you're not playing Sarah right. This isn't VF5:FS and VF players are going to have to understand that. Akira can't be played identical to his VF5:FS counterpart, but he has all the tools he needs to be top tier in DOA5. Sarah is the same way. Complaining in this manner is petty at best.

 

[Doa_Eater]

As far as VF5FS is concerned more then half the cast is scarier then Sarah, i believe she's a solid mid which is not the case in DOA5.

 

[Steady G]

I honestly don't care if Sarah doesn't have this, that, or the other. The bottom line is that im going to MAIN her and I just have to work with whatever Team Ninja gives me. I'm pretty sure that I will find a way to make Sarah a top tier charcater. So all I have to say is when you see CrazySteady online, and I pick Sarah... You better plan out your strategy wisely because I will not be holding back! Haha I'm am TOOO EXCITED for this game! Ahhhhhh! Just a couple more weeks left!

 

[kupo]

That's my "dood" SteadyG LOL
We just have to wait a little bit more and see what she's really made off. Can't wait haha

 

[Steady G]

That's my "dood" SteadyG LOL
We just have to wait a little bit more and see what she's really made off. Can't wait haha

Haha yeah just a little bit more and I like your picture BTW.. =]

 

[DR2K]

This is all understandable in VF.. this is DOA...
without a Jump move in FL stance ... DOA's offensive holds say hello... beating all your FL options .. ALL OF THEM.. except for maybe 2H+K as thats the only move that puts her in crouch in FL stance...

She NEEDS her (jump) property in FL 4K

and she needs the damn FL P+K Sabaki to work like it did in VF .. anti LOW P AND anti LOW K .. now its just useless and for taunting...

I wish my main character had half as many tools to bitch about.

Doesn't Sarah still have her back flip out of flamingo? I would imagine the air properties would stuff OH, which aren't universal. Guess she'll have to approach some match ups differently.

 

[onelasttime]

I actually can't fucking WAIT to try out Sarah

 

[synce]

Played a few Sarahs today... Unsurprisingly the most annoying character to fight against. You can forget about countering, just block and pray for an opening

 

[Tenren]

Played a few Sarahs today... Unsurprisingly the most annoying character to fight against. You can forget about countering, just block and pray for an opening

so far that would be pai for me. Seem like you can mash away and get away with so much. Sarah does seem a lil faster to me then in VF. I don't think Ill main her as I did in VF but will be a good pocket character lol

 

[Dave]

Ugh. I thought I would be just fine with her coming into this game, but you really do need to practice because things did change with her moves list. I need to do more training. I find getting in and out of flamingo a pain. I think I'm so used to VF5's way that I just don't think.

 

[NoctisLuna]

New to doa and trying to learn Sarah. Any idea on what things i should focus on learning?

 

[BLACKSTAR]

New to doa and trying to learn Sarah. Any idea on what things i should focus on learning?

I'm in the same boat as you. I found this link really helpful though, for DOA basics.
http://www.freestepdodge.com/thread...training-suggestion-for-aspiring-players.166/

As for learning Sarah, it's really awkward for me, I know that. Seems like coming from maining VF5:FS Sarah to playing DOA5 Sarah is like going from VF3 Sarah to VF5 Sarah -- the playstyles are totally different, and its like starting all over again