DOA5U Kasumi's match video and critique thread

[Chapstick]

Hmm ... looks pretty normal timed for me, considering that it gives a huge frame advantage (+40 or so?)

I think you're thinking of 6H+K, H+K in stun is +23, +15 on fastest stagger escape. 9K is 18 frames. I'm not sure if the frame data thing takes the 5 frames to turn around in account to the advantage, but if not that gives you +20 on fastest. So if you don't do that 9K immediately it isn't guaranteed. It didn't look like Ael did it immediately to me, plus online can be a little weird with frames.

 

[tokiopewpew]

I think you're thinking of 6H+K, H+K in stun is +23, +15 on fastest stagger escape. 9K is 18 frames. I'm not sure if the frame data thing takes the 5 frames to turn around in account to the advantage, but if not that gives you +20 on fastest. So if you don't do that 9K immediately it isn't guaranteed. It didn't look like Ael did it immediately to me, plus online can be a little weird with frames.

Yeah, I think I had 6H+K in my mind then, haven't checked it before I wrote it, my bad. Then it's surely how you said, and true, frame data can be a bit more weird online.

 

[Tenryuga]

Yeah it probably could have been latency. has been confirmed guaranteed after .

 

[UprisingJC]

Yeah it probably could have been latency. has been confirmed guaranteed after .

9K after H+K is guaranteed, but PKK7K6P+KKK is not. It depends on how fast your opponent slow escapes.
If ur opponent slow escapes fast enough, 9K after H+K won't connect, which means that 9K is the critical starter and simultaneously bounces Kasumi's backturned opponent, and you have to do PKK7KP+K instead of PKK7K6P+KKK.

 

[Ael]

Alright, thanks for the advice and critiques, Ten and Tokyo Pewpew.

@Ten, I'll try to stop the 4P > throw and the 66K. I think, since I'm still new to her, I just use 66K to get a critical stun on the opponent, which is bad since it's unsafe and whiffs easily. I'll definitely work on that, as well as watch AP's Kasumi beginner video. I'll be messing around more with 4P / 3K / PK and 66PP. However, 66PP feels awkward for me so it's definitely something to get used to. Interestingly, Ayane is distance and range while Kasumi is upclose and pokes so I'll have to work around Kasumi's spacing.

@ Tokyo Pewpew, actually, I messed up the timing for that, tbh. Still getting used to muscle memory for her moves. A smaaaall delay can change things dramatically. lol So my opponent managed to block it. And, thanks for the input in using Kasumi's other kick launchers. I still haven't found myself comfortable with 33K or 3H+K and their follow-ups so I'll tweak around my mixups. H+K is the easier option for right now.

Thanks again, guys. I'll come back stronger.

 

[UprisingJC]

Alright, thanks for the advice and critiques, Ten and Tokyo Pewpew.

@Ten, I'll try to stop the 4P > throw and the 66K. I think, since I'm still new to her, I just use 66K to get a critical stun on the opponent, which is bad since it's unsafe and whiffs easily. I'll definitely work on that, as well as watch AP's Kasumi beginner video. I'll be messing around more with 4P / 3K / PK and 66PP. However, 66PP feels awkward for me so it's definitely something to get used to. Interestingly, Ayane is distance and range while Kasumi is upclose and pokes so I'll have to work around Kasumi's spacing.

@ Tokyo Pewpew, actually, I messed up the timing for that, tbh. Still getting used to muscle memory for her moves. A smaaaall delay can change things dramatically. lol So my opponent managed to block it. And, thanks for the input in using Kasumi's other kick launchers. I still haven't found myself comfortable with 33K or 3H+K and their follow-ups so I'll tweak around my mixups. H+K is the easier option for right now.

Thanks again, guys. I'll come back stronger.

Against Ayane, use 9K as one of ur whiff punishers cuz Kasumi's 66K has a terrible hitbox, making it evaded by Ayane's 4P. On the other hand, Ayane often goes back-turned, if 9K hits her when she's back-turned, she'll be bounced just like how 9K after H+K does.

I recommend using 33K for most of the time as it's faster than 3H+K is and you can do higher juggle damage after launching ur opponent with it than you do with 3H+K.

 

[Ael]

Alright, that's good advice to know about Ayane. Being that Ayane excels at keeping Kasumi out, 9K will come in handy when Ayane whiffs in her BT mode, I would think. On another note, I just look at the frame data a bit after you said that 33K is fastest of the three moves. 33K is 16i, H+K is 17i and 3H+K is 18i so that's actually important to know to see which launcher should be used. Thanks for the advice again!

On a side note, I just started reading JDE's breakdown for Kasumi and testing things out as I go. Wooooow. Kasumi fishes for hi counter strikes when she does certain moves or string delays that makes her moves safe despite their frames. Never realize she has a lot of them. I think this will make my perspective of her fighting style more fun.

 

[Chapstick]

However, 66PP feels awkward for me so it's definitely something to get used to. Interestingly, Ayane is distance and range while Kasumi is upclose and pokes so I'll have to work around Kasumi's spacing.

Make sure you 6P+K on the guard break, you didn't do it in your vid. You're negative if you don't but you have some + (small amount I forget how much) if you do. Personally, a lot of times I P+K instead of 6P+K because people like to attack if they're guessing you'll try to 6P+K~T.

On the topic of 33K, I saw Panic do something interesting in one of his vids. He used 33K to crush a low wake up kick. It gives you a nice launch and works pretty well, I never thought of using it as a crush before.

 

[Tenryuga]

Alright, that's good advice to know about Ayane. Being that Ayane excels at keeping Kasumi out, 9K will come in handy when Ayane whiffs in her BT mode, I would think. On another note, I just look at the frame data a bit after you said that 33K is fastest of the three moves. 33K is 16i, H+K is 17i and 3H+K is 18i so that's actually important to know to see which launcher should be used. Thanks for the advice again!

On a side note, I just started reading JDE's breakdown for Kasumi and testing things out as I go. Wooooow. Kasumi fishes for hi counter strikes when she does certain moves or string delays that makes her moves safe despite their frames. Never realize she has a lot of them. I think this will make my perspective of her fighting style more fun.

Yeah string delay is critical to Kasumi as well as free cancelling your strings. Be sure to use both in tandem because if you lean more toward string delay the delay attempts will become obvious and you will be the one getting counter blown instead of your opponent. If you use a free cancel offense more often than you should you also put yourself at risk of being counter blown because Kasumi's frames on block are terrible on most of her moves. This is the unsafety most players are referring to when they say she is unsafe not just the amount of moves she can be throw punished for.

It is unwise for someone to try to throw punish Kasumi for free canceling because of her speed and the threat of a delayed followup or followup in general. Not sure if you have heard the term "respectable followups" before but that applies here. Kasumi has a lot of moves in her strings that put you in a shitty situation if you do try to do something stupid and that is where her offense comes from. As long as your opponent is afraid of getting caught by a delayed attack or string followup you can keep them blocking for days. If they start doing this that is when you introduce tick throws and her lows to open them up.

 

[tokiopewpew]

A smaaaall delay can change things dramatically.

That's so true, happens to me a lot. xP

And, thanks for the input in using Kasumi's other kick launchers. I still haven't found myself comfortable with 33K or 3H+K and their follow-ups so I'll tweak around my mixups. H+K is the easier option for right now.

You can check a lot of opportunities for launchers and combos here too:
http://www.freestepdodge.com/wiki/kasumi-strategies-doa5u/

 

[tokiopewpew]

On the topic of 33K, I saw Panic do something interesting in one of his vids. He used 33K to crush a low wake up kick. It gives you a nice launch and works pretty well, I never thought of using it as a crush before.

Yes, it works very good, I use it a lot (adopted from Shade Swifteye ). It's also not too dangerous, since you get just hit out of the air if the opponent does a mid wake-up kick.

 

[Ael]

Make sure you 6P+K on the guard break, you didn't do it in your vid. You're negative if you don't but you have some + (small amount I forget how much) if you do. Personally, a lot of times I P+K instead of 6P+K because people like to attack if they're guessing you'll try to 6P+K~T.

Soooo, interesting. Haha. I really don't know what to follow-up after the guard break from 66PP aside from 6P+K > KK so yeah, I'll work on that.

Yeah string delay is critical to Kasumi as well as free cancelling your strings. Be sure to use both in tandem because if you lean more toward string delay the delay attempts will become obvious and you will be the one getting counter blown instead of your opponent. If you use a free cancel offense more often than you should you also put yourself at risk of being counter blown because Kasumi's frames on block are terrible on most of her moves. This is the unsafety most players are referring to when they say she is unsafe not just the amount of moves she can be throw punished for.

It is unwise for someone to try to throw punish Kasumi for free canceling because of her speed and the threat of a delayed followup or followup in general. Not sure if you have heard the term "respectable followups" before but that applies here. Kasumi has a lot of moves in her strings that put you in a shitty situation if you do try to do something stupid and that is where her offense comes from. As long as your opponent is afraid of getting caught by a delayed attack or string followup you can keep them blocking for days. If they start doing this that is when you introduce tick throws and her lows to open them up.

Alright, so Kasumi is big risks, high rewards, don't get too predictable, learn her mixups and work with making her poking safe. Once you advance, you can start utilizing her tick throws and her lows once you corner your opponent or make them respect her delays and free cancel. Got it. It'll take some work and a lot of studying, but it seems fun. Thanks again for the advice!

And, thanks for the link, Tokyo Pewpew. I'll take a look at that also.

 

[phoenix1985gr]

A couple of days ago i fought a Kasumi online that after h+k used k3k that put me in a stun similar to 66p from vanilla dont know if its guarranteed though so you just test it out

 

[tokiopewpew]

A couple of days ago i fought a Kasumi online that after h+k used k3k that put me in a stun similar to 66p from vanilla dont know if its guarranteed though so you just test it out

Hmm ... not sure what you mean with that, I can't remember from vanilla exactly.
Have you been already stunned when he/she used ? That doesn't work for me, because the second kick from would have let you fall on the ground. same goes for .

If hit's as first move on counter-hit, then Kasumi is able to follow up with to reach stun level 2 and keep the opponent turned around. Then you can follow up with to get stun level 3 (doesn't work when the opponent is stagger escaping). This would also work with instead. However, firstly, it's not easy to hit the opponent with on counter-hit (imo) and secondly, it may be that the opponent is out of range for then.

That's just my what I tried, maybe I forgot something and someone else can check this.

 

[phoenix1985gr]

sry i did a mistake it wasnt after h+k it was after 66t-t

 

[tokiopewpew]

sry i did a mistake it wasnt after h+k it was after 66t-t

Oh, in this case, I would say it's not guaranteed on paper, because Kasumi's 66T~T gives her +10 advantage while the first kick from her K3K needs 11 frames. However, practically, it's highly questionable if someone can prevent her from still doing it.

 

[UprisingJC]

Oh, in this case, I would say it's not guaranteed on paper, because Kasumi's 66T~T gives her +10 advantage while the first kick from her K3K needs 11 frames. However, practically, it's highly questionable if someone can prevent her from still doing it.

Stop Kasumi from doing 66T~T > K3K?

Just use moves not too slow and leading into a crouching status.

Ex: Bayman‘s backturned 2K, Kasumi‘s backturned 4p or 2p

 

[tokiopewpew]

Stop Kasumi from doing 66T~T > K3K?

Just use moves not too slow and leading into a crouching status.

Ex: Bayman‘s backturned 2K, Kasumi‘s backturned 4p or 2p

Hmm ... true, since K3K starts with a high attack, it's possible to avoid it with moves that lead into a crouching status. In this case, I guess this combination is not guaranteed, referring to phoenix1985gr's question.

 

[UprisingJC]

Hmm ... true, since K3K starts with a high attack, it's possible to avoid it with moves that lead into a crouching status. In this case, I guess this combination is not guaranteed, referring to phoenix1985gr's question.

Use moves INSTANTLY leading into a crouching status.

That is why I only mentioned Kasumi′s BT 2p and 4p. BT 2K doesn't lead her into a crouching status INSTANTLY.

 

[tokiopewpew]

Use moves INSTANTLY leading into a crouching status.

That is why I only mentioned Kasumi′s BT 2p and 4p. BT 2K doesn't lead her into a crouching status INSTANTLY.

Yeah right, I thought about this but did not mention it. I don't use 66T~T that much but if I do, I would still prefer doing 6PK after it as mid solution.