Momiji General Discussion

[Force_of_Nature]

Momiji is arguably one my best characters right now. As a matter of fact, right now she is top 2. I just hate that whenever that I try to practice her through the online netcode, my inputs are non-existent. For an example, when I low throw punish, instead of getting 2T (just taking the throw damage) I get a launching 1T (because I haven't found anything that works from it), it's pretty irritating. Also, when I would start holding mid kicks, I was supposed to get a 6PK out of it but instead, it would get blocked. Not to mention the guard breaks lol

Then after breakable objects, instead of getting a 236P+KPP684T (which is inescapable), I got held like 3 times last night. Realistically, if you're hitting buttons like that, you're eating more damage. I'm not here to complain though. It's just annoying how online rewards piss-poor play & dysfunctional for players who want to use it for practice properly aka learning experience. I try to tolerate it because I enjoy my friends as they do me & talk to them as well & don't post a lot here because there's really no point in complaining about it since everyone who knows DOA that online is bad.

Has anybody found a follow up from the low throw punish (1T)? That was one of the questions that I had. The other was ways to use tech from hard knockdowns (1PK & 2H+K).

This is incredibly frustrating because the holds that only give you frame advantage instead of damage. It doesn't help that Momiji has the reputation as a "mashy, jump spamming bitch" online. Christie's another one who's impossible to use right online. Guess what works for both characters? Mindless mashing -_-.

I noticed that DOA online always benefits the worse player.

 

[synce]

I think everyone will agree that DOA has one of the worst netcodes ever but Momiji is not a mash friendly character online or offline, and you definitely can't lump her with Christie whether we're talking play style, lag tactics, tiers, whatever. Personally I've never played a good Momiji or even an annoying one because many online players lack the fundamentals necessary. They just play her like most DOA characters (mid into critical, stun stun stun etc)

 

[Force_of_Nature]

I know Momiji and Christie are not "mash-friendly" offline, but online lag definitely helps out their mashing. My point is that DOA online punishes people for trying to play characters correctly such as Momiji, Christie or Ayane, and rewards people that mash more or spam unsafe moves that can't get punished properly in lag.

The way how most people play Momiji or Ayane online is annoying as hell and would get blown up offline.

 

[J.D.E.]

I think everyone will agree that DOA has one of the worst netcodes ever but Momiji is not a mash friendly character online or offline, and you definitely can't lump her with Christie whether we're talking play style, lag tactics, tiers, whatever. Personally I've never played a good Momiji or even an annoying one because many online players lack the fundamentals necessary. They just play her like most DOA characters (mid into critical, stun stun stun etc)

The problem is that people don't bother to flesh characters like Momiji out. If they did, then they would know that Momiji's offense revolves around fishing out holds for throw damage, & the stun > launch game. She's a very balanced character. Far from low tier. Has great crush variety along with good footsies/spacing game. People just mash with her online & don't care to actually dig deep into the character. It's even worse that online rewards this kind of play because it's a terrible example for all of the characters & what they're actually capable of.

Edit: Christie is very mash friendly online. I've seen Christie's do some unsafe shit numerous amount of times & mash out of disadvantage with jabs beginning with PPP etc & still the player who tries to punish gets CH'd.

 

[Kuga]

Edit: Christie is very mash friendly online. I've seen Christie's do some unsafe shit numerous amount of times & mash out of disadvantage with jabs beginning with PPP etc & still the player who tries to punish gets CH'd.

Every barely punishable move is like almost safe online. It's not only Christie. But this does not apply to punishing only. What actually pisses me off the most is when im doing uninterruptable custom, and im getting abared to sh#t. This basically makes this game mashing competition sometimes 'just to be sure for frametrap to work like it should'.

 

[JKT]

Quick question, and sorry if this has been mentioned before - what moves are best to use against characters that are all up in your face, like Kasumi?

 

[Kuga]

It aint that simpe. Its not a question of selection of moves but rather a situation in which moves with speecific characteristic can be used (like crushes). No all in one solution here man. Gotta study opponents habits and FD of his character.

 

[Xernuht]

Quick question, and sorry if this has been mentioned before - what moves are best to use against characters that are all up in your face, like Kasumi?

Kasumi is really annoying to deal with. At 9/11/12, she's fitting faster or as fast on all levels, and her long strings can tie you up. Thing is, she's unsafe if you block anything, and it only gets worse as you sink further into her strings. If you can, try to use 5T/6T to punish her string ends and use 1P and 2P to catch her if she's getting jab-happy. Once you've gone on the offense, try to play it safe: the 9-frame jab must be respected.

 

[JKT]

It aint that simpe. Its not a question of selection of moves but rather a situation in which moves with speecific characteristic can be used (like crushes). No all in one solution here man. Gotta study opponents habits and FD of his character.

That's true, but I thought there may be some go-to moves for situations where a character is always in your face. But ok I'll take note of what you say of course ^_^. Thanks!

Kasumi is really annoying to deal with. At 9/11/12, she's fitting faster or as fast on all levels, and her long strings can tie you up. Thing is, she's unsafe if you block anything, and it only gets worse as you sink further into her strings. If you can, try to use 5T/6T to punish her string ends and use 1P and 2P to catch her if she's getting jab-happy. Once you've gone on the offense, try to play it safe: the 9-frame jab must be respected.

Thanks! for the advice! I see I was wrong in not respecting her frames properly. I try to throw after a string, but it doesn't work a lot of the time. Guess because its online things just don't register properly :\. But I know I don't block enough and hold way too much whenever I'm caught in a stun, which is a failure on my part. I don't do enough 2P's too. Speaking of which, when I do do 2P, I'm not sure what to follow it up with lol.

Must remember to do as you say next time ^_^!

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Kasumi is really annoying to deal with. At 9/11/12, she's fitting faster or as fast on all levels, and her long strings can tie you up. Thing is, she's unsafe if you block anything, and it only gets worse as you sink further into her strings. If you can, try to use 5T/6T to punish her string ends and use 1P and 2P to catch her if she's getting jab-happy. Once you've gone on the offense, try to play it safe: the 9-frame jab must be respected.

When fighting Kasumi with Momiji, you should be doing all that you can to keep her out of your face, Momiji has a much greater effective range than Kasumi along with great movement. If Kasumi is constantly in Momiji's face, that's a losing battle for Momiji. Though on the bright side, both character's 2P's are the same speed with Kasumi's being -1 on hit and Momiji's being 0 on hit.

 

[Tenryuga]

Momiji can't really pressure kasumi with 2P. You have to be more defensive than offensive with your followups when it connects. Use your jab to beat her mids and crushes to beat her highs. You can also try 2p > SS or 2P > hold.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Yeah, that's what I suspected. Momiji can't do much to Kasumi in point blank range unless she guesses correctly. Her objective should be like Ein's against faster characters: Seeking an escape route to create space and breathing room.

 

[JKT]

Thanks for elaborating more on this guys! I'm really learning a lot from this ^_^. I have a long way to go DX!

 

[Force_of_Nature]

No problem! The more you know...

 

[Saber]

If Kasumi is using highs a lot, 6P+K. It's an amazing high crush tool and you can start stun-launch which will reverse momentum.

 

[JKT]

@Saber Thanks! I don't do enough 6P+Ks. It seems slow to pull off, or is that just me?

Also, I remember you had a "Momiji Breakdown" post: http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/momiji-breakdown-work-in-progress.3426/

Is that still being worked on, or is that complete?

 

[Saber]

@Saber Thanks! I don't do enough 6P+Ks. It seems slow to pull off, or is that just me?

Also, I remember you had a "Momiji Breakdown" post: http://www.freestepdodge.com/threads/momiji-breakdown-work-in-progress.3426/

Is that still being worked on, or is that complete?

Still in progress. Haven't got time to rearrange everything and rework my points since I've been busy with Marie Rose () but I'll try to finish it up sometime soon. Momiji hasn't changed much in each patch so that should make things easier.

6P+K is of moderate speed (15f high), but if you think you're going to get CH either way, it's an option worth going for since it'll at least stop her highs.

 

[JKT]

Still in progress. Haven't got time to rearrange everything and rework my points since I've been busy with Marie Rose () but I'll try to finish it up sometime soon. Momiji hasn't changed much in each patch so that should make things easier.

6P+K is of moderate speed (15f high), but if you think you're going to get CH either way, it's an option worth going for since it'll at least stop her highs.

Its ok - I understand it takes a lot of time to do a guide, so don't worry ^_^. And Marie Rose is a lot of fun to use as well. I hope to be a good Momiji and Marie Rose player (maybe Kasumi too lol).

Ok it seems I'm missing out from using 6P+K enough. Thanks for the tips!

 

[J.D.E.]

Kasumi is really annoying to deal with. At 9/11/12, she's fitting faster or as fast on all levels, and her long strings can tie you up. Thing is, she's unsafe if you block anything, and it only gets worse as you sink further into her strings. If you can, try to use 5T/6T to punish her string ends and use 1P and 2P to catch her if she's getting jab-happy. Once you've gone on the offense, try to play it safe: the 9-frame jab must be respected.

Momiji is fine against Kasumi. However, you can forget about outpoking her or fist fighting with her. That's not going to happen. You have the crush variety though (but she isn't freely crushable either). You'll have to play the spacing & keep off game with her. 7K 4K, 44K, 3K variants, 214P, & then your whiff punishers.

Yeah, that's what I suspected. Momiji can't do much to Kasumi in point blank range unless she guesses correctly. Her objective should be like Ein's against faster characters: Seeking an escape route to create space and breathing room.

Hah! I guess we're twins now! LOL #SailorMarsfans

 

[JKT]

Thanks JDE for the useful tools to utilise ^_^