Team NINJA Social Media Updates for DOA6

Jyu_Viole_Grace

Well-Known Member
I mean Momiji was the literal definition (or equivalent) to the house plant sitting in a corner where she's "just there" within the competitive format. Most of the JPN players didn't like playing her along with the character mostly being played by the casual audience because she's cute, yet lacks that sense of energy or impact vs majority of the cast that have a better shine behind it. Might even be safe to say that Momiji is literally a casual character for everyone that anyone can use.

Gen Fu takes the cake on the biggest snooze and putting people to sleep when it comes to boredom imo, but Gen Fu was at least actually pretty potent+had an impact. Only issue I guess was that he wasn't played by many people, but after seeing Gen Fu in action, wouldn't blame people.

Momiji is like Tira, a popular character among casual playes that don't tend to be the kind of "tournament character" (lack of tools for matchups) or a braindead character like Rachel (even after the nerfs).

Tournaments isn't a good metric to know which characters are popular for most people in niche franchises like DOA. People tend to go to tournaments to win not to represent the characters they like.

Then there's that kind of situations like right now with DOA6 where even if Ayane is really strong, you barely find Ayane players in tournaments, only a few ones. If we follow the tournament representation logic, Ayane isn't popular anymore.
 

Brute

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Momiji is like Tira, a popular character among casual playes that don't tend to be the kind of "tournament character" (lack of tools for matchups) or a braindead character like Rachel (even after the nerfs).
Right. Because you need a massive, glowing brain to play Momiji.
 

Jyu_Viole_Grace

Well-Known Member
Right. Because you need a massive, glowing brain to play Momiji.

You will need more dedication with her than with Rachel.

Rachel isn't braindead because she's easy, she's braindead because she's easy and really strong which wasn't Momiji case.

If you just want to sign up to a tournament for a game that isn't your main game, you won't go for dedicated characters like Momiji, you will go for characters like Rachel.
 

Brute

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If you just want to sign up to a tournament for a game that isn't your main game, you won't go for dedicated characters like Momiji,
That's because I have taste, and if I picked Momiji, I'd have to worry about extra execution errors due to the involuntary cringes I'd be subjecting myself to.

You will need more dedication with her than with Rachel.
So you need 6 minutes in the training room instead of 5? What a difference.

Not sure what criteria you're using to define what constitutes a "dedicated character," but if I were to sign up for a tournament in a game that "wasn't my main game," you can bet your butt I'd be going in with a niche character hoping to use the relative lack of MU knowledge/experience to my advantage. I'd pick Zasalamel before Nightmare if I signed up for a SCVI tournament.
 

deathofaninja

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Premium Donor
News Team
You will need more dedication with her than with Rachel.

Rachel isn't braindead because she's easy, she's braindead because she's easy and really strong which wasn't Momiji case.

If you just want to sign up to a tournament for a game that isn't your main game, you won't go for dedicated characters like Momiji, you will go for characters like Rachel.

Dedicated characters like Momiji? Huh? Yeah and that's why Lopedo won TFC 2013 in a Rachel mirror final, and why some of the biggest names like: Blackberry, Kwiggle and Sonic Fox pocketed her as not only their best heavy but also used the character as much as their mains. We can argue back and forth about whether or not Rachel is brain-dead or not... which hilariously enough you bring back up in the conversation even though Brute did not mention her. What's important is that she's fun to play.

Tournaments are a very good metric to determine popularity, because it gives proof of a what's working and what's not. A reason Momiji was never picked in tournaments is because she didn't work. Rachel proved herself and Momiji didn't do anything because she was considered by many at the time to feel like an incomplete character. With all her popularity I expected her to win at least one tournament, and she did not.

I like Momiji... I hope for Momiji... but she's not my number one ninja, and there are other characters that look very similar to her. Rachel is blonde but she still stands out like the star she is. I guess we will find out soon:


The pass is being detailed at the VSF tournament. Be sure to check out the home page often for the tournament results and news.
 
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DestructionBomb

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What's wrong with a character having an appeal for the casual audience?

I suffer from having mostly IRL friends not that much interested in FG and the few times I managed to play with them DOA5LR, Momiji was often among the fighters chosen repeatedly (but interestingly, Kasumi (default choice) and Bass(!) were the absolute favorite picks from my non-FGC friends).
Momiji is like Tira, a popular character among casual playes that don't tend to be the kind of "tournament character" (lack of tools for matchups) or a braindead character like Rachel (even after the nerfs).

Then there's that kind of situations like right now with DOA6 where even if Ayane is really strong, you barely find Ayane players in tournaments, only a few ones. If we follow the tournament representation logic, Ayane isn't popular anymore.

It comes down to the effort placed on the characters. Has nothing to do with nerfs, tournaments or any of that sort. Balance isn't a topic here. The thing with Momiji is that the character didn't leave a milestone impact compared to most of the roster due to TN's lazy incompetence to work the character to impress people, look at Diego. Diego is nowhere near impressive which is a downfall to that character, he literally looks like the embodiment of TN's shenanigans or enforcing people to take a character to which they believe "appeals to the westerners" which is obviously just pure comedy. On top that a huge chunk of Momiji fans are mostly oblivious and just eat it up because as long as the character is in the game even if she's like watching grass grow, nothing else matters which is not a overall good look on inclusion.

It leaves the character not exactly memorable except for people's kink and desire. A good character is creating/including a character that separates itself entirely from the rest of the cast members where it feels actually different or refreshing even, and unfortunately Momiji does not fit that bill at all when she entered DOA. Take Aoi for example, characters like that leaves an individual in the state of "Holy crap, not the biggest fan of Aoi but this character was extremely well done and this was motion capped?? it all makes sense now on why people want her, everything checks out in the checkbook".

Momiji on the other hand felt typical, almost as if TN just didn't care whether the character left an impression or not for combat oriented reasons and animations, if she's just cute she's golden, which again, if that's all it is then that's a problem. Honoka is a prime example of a character design that is wasted on gimmicks and copy-pasted moves instead of incorporating an unique actual fighting style for the character. The term "Honoka-Fu" could of been something that is actually new, but TN knew that people would eat it up and sell well which sparks problems for DOA characters to not be as memorable compared to other fighting games out there, except like what? Hayabusa? everyone knows Hayabusa right? but yet that's the problem. They know him.


You will need more dedication with her than with Rachel.

Not really. I mean even I can play that character. Rachel isn't exactly a huge effort either, though she did leave a better impact than Momiji despite taking move samples from Spartan.

Tournaments have nothing to do with the character. It's the effort behind it. Marie Rose/Mila/Rig were pretty well done as an example.
 
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Jyu_Viole_Grace

Well-Known Member
That's because I have taste, and if I picked Momiji, I'd have to worry about extra execution errors due to the involuntary cringes I'd be subjecting myself to.

It's not taste, it's bias and phobias and everyone have that.

So you need 6 minutes in the training room instead of 5? What a difference.

Not sure what criteria you're using to define what constitutes a "dedicated character," but if I were to sign up for a tournament in a game that "wasn't my main game," you can bet your butt I'd be going in with a niche character hoping to use the relative lack of MU knowledge/experience to my advantage. I'd pick Zasalamel before Nightmare if I signed up for a SCVI tournament.

I will guess you don't think that everything that defines a character is just combo execution, because damage isn't Momiji issue. In one single minute you won't find all the tech you need to bring a character like Momiji to a tournament with top players.

If you want to bring a niche character to a SC VI tournament, bring Voldo. But then you will have to work extra hard to be able to defeat top players using beasts like Siegfried, Ivy or Azwel.

Dedicated characters like Momiji? Huh? Yeah and that's why Lopedo won TFC 2013 in a Rachel mirror final, and why some of the biggest names like: Blackberry, Kwiggle and Sonic Fox pocketed her as not only their best heavy but also used the character as much as their mains. We can argue back and forth about whether or not Rachel is brain-dead or not... which hilariously enough you bring back up in the conversation even though Brute did not mention her. What's important is that she's fun to play.

Tournaments are a very good metric to determine popularity, because it gives proof of a what's working and what's not. A reason Momiji was never picked in tournaments is because she didn't work. Rachel proved herself and Momiji didn't do anything because she was considered by many at the time to feel like an incomplete character. With all her popularity I expected her to win at least one tournament, and she did not.

I like Momiji... I hope for Momiji... but she's not my number one ninja, and there are other characters that look very similar to her. Rachel is blonde but she still stands out like the star she is. I guess we will find out soon:

You are saying it, she is a really good heavy character and that's the reason why people played her and not other heavy/grappler character like Bass, not just because "she's fun". If that would be the case, people wouldn't change mains from a game to another if they are still in the roster. When money is in the table "for fun" isn't an option to a lot people.

Tournaments isn't a good metric to determine popularity, it's a good metric to determine what's meta. Just look at all games and most used characters, they change from one iteration to another and it isn't because people stopped liking these characters. People don't love Goku GT and Dragon Ball GT, people use Goku GT because he's a braindead character even if in truth Beerus or C17 are way more popular Dragon Ball characters than him.

And that's what happened with Momiji. You can like her for whatever reason but as character for high-level play, she was just a worse Hayabusa. Why would yo play with her instead with Hayabusa?.

I don't have anything against Rachel but the reason why her was more used in tournaments in comparison with Momiji is obvious and it happens in all fighting games.

No, you don't. Even I can play that character. Rachel isn't exactly a huge effort either, though she did leave a better impact than Momiji despite taking move samples from Spartan.

Again, tournaments have nothing to do with the character. It's the effort behind it. Marie Rose/Mila/Rig were pretty well done as an example.

Marie Rose is a perfect example. Sonic Fox used to play her in DOA5LR and he tried her when Koei gave him a DOA6 key to play the game.

I watched his stream and he started playing Marie Rose but then he tried NiCO. Guess which character he played in tournaments. Isn't Marie Rose fun to play anymore?, nope, NiCO was just way better and that's why he changed Marie Rose.
 
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deathofaninja

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
News Team
Watch some of the DOA6 tournaments in Japan. Marie Rose is no joke. People are still sleeping on that character. Meanwhile NiCO is a puzzle everyone has solved.
 

Jyu_Viole_Grace

Well-Known Member
Watch some of the DOA6 tournaments in Japan. Marie Rose is no joke. People are still sleeping on that character. Meanwhile NiCO is a puzzle everyone has solved.

I'm not saying she is a bad character, I'm saying that NiCO with way less effort bring better results and this logic will be always presented in FG (and competitive games overall, just change characters for decks or whatever) when it comes to pick characters.

All FG have to deal with it and Momiji had to deal with it back in DOA5.

Do you think if she is braindead and top tier en DOA6 no one will play with her?, she would gain players from nowhere. It always happens.
 

DestructionBomb

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I mean, Momiji wasn't even that big of an issue though, she was just extremely lackluster in display at times (which people seem to avoid this part for some reason, this is important).

it's literally no different than an office plant that just sits there to which a certain demographic group deemed that plant special when you can also get that plant across 100,000+ stores. See where the problem is? lol.
 
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deathofaninja

Well-Known Member
Premium Donor
News Team
I think it's rude to call Rachel braindead... I don't care how you meant it. At this point I don't know what you are trying to defend but I will try to break it down and you can tell me where I'm wrong:

"Momiji is super popular, and she shouldn't have to deal with the stresses of being super popular at tournaments too... infact they don't count or mean anything... but maybe a couple hundred votes in a DOAX3 popular contest or a Gamefaqs poll do matter. That shows the real effort for this dedicated character!"

There was nothing to dedicate to the character other than time behind the camera after she loses.
 

Ninoasker

Well-Known Member
Momiji and Rachel fans getting their panties on a twist over which character will get in even tho both are clearly gonna be DLC

Meanwhile us Leon fans being used to Leon not getting into the game until years later when a new version of the game comes out and not even batting an eye if this ends up actually happening
28889
 

Jyu_Viole_Grace

Well-Known Member
I think it's rude to call Rachel braindead... I don't care how you meant it. At this point I don't know what you are trying to defend but I will try to break it down and you can tell me where I'm wrong:

"Momiji is super popular, and she shouldn't have to deal with the stresses of being super popular at tournaments too... infact they don't count or mean anything... but maybe a couple hundred votes in a DOAX3 popular contest or a Gamefaqs poll do matter. That shows the real effort for this dedicated character!"

There was nothing to dedicate to the character other than time behind the camera after she loses.

I'm not defending her, I'm just arguing why a character doesn't appear in tournaments as much as another character and that tournaments can never be taken as metric to know which characters are popular for most people because most people don't play in tournaments and picking characters can be biased due prizes (and not because people is greedy, traveling not being free has a lot to do).

Maybe you think I'm some kind of Momiji fanboy but if it was for me the next character would be Ein but he isn't as popular as Momiji/Rachel or even Leon and I know it.
 

Dionysus

Well-Known Member
After an argument like that I find myself hoping neither Momiji or Rachel is in.
#MomijiGang might not like it but she'll be a big disappoint if they pull another Mai bringing her other with sparse adjustments or nerfs, since she was never as well-made as Mai to start with.
 
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