The official Virtua Fighter 5: Final Showdown thread

Radiance

Well-Known Member
I haven't played the game yet, nevertheless I'll still comment. I don't think it's half assed but I don't think it reached the peak potential VF5FS did. Could be COVID related, we'll never know. Upgraded graphics are cool, but it seemed to still be missing alot of stuff on launch that VF5FS had.

HOWEVER, it's hard to complain about a game that was free at launch for a few months, so I'll give it a pass. I could only imagine the blow back had they charged for a game that had no lobbies @ launch, lackluster customization options (when FS had both), no rollback, and exclusive to PS (FS was also multi-platform at launch).

It's great that they're trying to bring in a new crowd. Unfortunately, it's still VF; the game comes with the title of having a steep learning curve that's only going to draw in a competitive scene. Whatever Namco is doing with Tekken, I think AM2 should look at and take note. Tekken is a complex game yet Harada is somehow able to grasp both the competitive and casual fan base whereas VF is supported by only it's competitive fan base really. I don't think Sega is going to gamble investing into a new iteration of VF if they don't think the game is going to generate revenue.

Maybe they'll pull a SCVI where alot assets were reused so production probably didn't cost much yet it was a success which will pave the way to SCVII which will probably have a higher budget.
 
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KasumiLover

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I think VF wants to cater to newcomers but at the same time they don't want to alienate their core fanbase that put in work to master the game, so they stuck to just a visual overhaul and new music.

Some idiot here actually made a status about VF earlier today saying that they didn't get why VF was considered hard because they mained "EZ" mode chatacters like Vanessa and Lion who are not easy by any means, maybe compared to the other characters but they're not not super easy but I ignored them since I don't really think camels with two positive thumb expressions is smart anyway. The game itself is harder than usual fighting games that have a comeback mechanic but VF doesn't have that, and the easier characters like Pai aren't as beginner friendly either in the long run. VF is always gonna be a tougher game to get into but at least now they released it in a more simple remake so people can try to get into it
 

VirtuaKazama

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I think VF wants to cater to newcomers but at the same time they don't want to alienate their core fanbase that put in work to master the game, so they stuck to just a visual overhaul and new music.

Some idiot here actually made a status about VF earlier today saying that they didn't get why VF was considered hard because they mained "EZ" mode chatacters like Vanessa and Lion who are not easy by any means, maybe compared to the other characters but they're not not super easy but I ignored them since I don't really think camels with two positive thumb expressions is smart anyway. The game itself is harder than usual fighting games that have a comeback mechanic but VF doesn't have that, and the easier characters like Pai aren't as beginner friendly either in the long run. VF is always gonna be a tougher game to get into but at least now they released it in a more simple remake so people can try to get into it

Technically, the only comeback mechanic that VF has are ring-outs.
I haven't played the game yet, nevertheless I'll still comment. I don't think it's half assed but I don't think it reached the peak potential VF5FS did. Could be COVID related, we'll never know. Upgraded graphics are cool, but it seemed to still be missing alot of stuff on launch that VF5FS had.

HOWEVER, it's hard to complain about a game that was free at launch for a few months, so I'll give it a pass. I could only imagine the blow back had they charged for a game that had no lobbies @ launch, lackluster customization options (when FS had both), no rollback, and exclusive to PS (FS was also multi-platform at launch).

It's great that they're trying to bring in a new crowd. Unfortunately, it's still VF; the game comes with the title of having a steep learning curve that's only going to draw in a competitive scene. Whatever Namco is doing with Tekken, I think AM2 should look at and take note. Tekken is a complex game yet Harada is somehow able to grasp both the competitive and casual fan base whereas VF is supported by only it's competitive fan base really. I don't think Sega is going to gamble investing into a new iteration of VF if they don't think the game is going to generate revenue.

Maybe they'll pull a SCVI where alot assets were reused so production probably didn't cost much yet it was a success which will pave the way to SCVII which will probably have a higher budget.

It was COVID-related.

As I said before, the project was made one month before the pandemic hit and they had to meet a deadline. Mind you, the Work at Home ruling didn't go into effect until May 2020, something that Japan is not used to doing compared to other countries because they're used to working at an office.
 

Derock

Well-Known Member
Some idiot here actually made a status about VF earlier today saying that they didn't get why VF was considered hard because they mained "EZ" mode chatacters like Vanessa and Lion who are not easy by any means, maybe compared to the other characters but they're not not super easy but I ignored them since I don't really think camels with two positive thumb expressions is smart anyway. The game itself is harder than usual fighting games that have a comeback mechanic but VF doesn't have that, and the easier characters like Pai aren't as beginner friendly either in the long run. VF is always gonna be a tougher game to get into but at least now they released it in a more simple remake so people can try to get into it

Is that where I heard this quote @Camel with 2 thumbs was referring to: "you need 400 IQ to play VF" stigma came from? We talked about it because I never even heard of this before from players. I'm not sure if that's from people who used this stigma that "doesn't know or how to play the franchise in general". Does anyone forgot the quote, "easy to learn, hard to master"? Mostly majority of the VF aren't that easy per say, unless they talking about the command lists. Of course, you can master their moves in training but during gameplay, it's a totally different story. As @VirtuaKazama said, ring-outs are the comeback mechanic but its risky like Soul Calibur's ring-outs (memories of Taki spam-flipping to the edge of the ring back in SC1!)

Honestly if that stigma exist, I think that's the cause of why many Western players, especially the US players, are not keen on jumping into VF, despite its praises over the years. But it's the same as any fighting game in general, if its not Street Fighter.
 

Radiance

Well-Known Member
Still I'd be surprised if Sega ever provided the funds for a VF6. At this point, I believe they're only consistently updating VF5 for the Japanese scene. The game just lives and does well there compared to anywhere else.
 

KasumiLover

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Premium Donor
Is that where I heard this quote @Camel with 2 thumbs was referring to: "you need 400 IQ to play VF" stigma came from? We talked about it because I never even heard of this before from players. I'm not sure if that's from people who used this stigma that "doesn't know or how to play the franchise in general". Does anyone forgot the quote, "easy to learn, hard to master"? Mostly majority of the VF aren't that easy per say, unless they talking about the command lists. Of course, you can master their moves in training but during gameplay, it's a totally different story. As @VirtuaKazama said, ring-outs are the comeback mechanic but its risky like Soul Calibur's ring-outs (memories of Taki spam-flipping to the edge of the ring back in SC1!)

Honestly if that stigma exist, I think that's the cause of why many Western players, especially the US players, are not keen on jumping into VF, despite its praises over the years. But it's the same as any fighting game in general, if its not Street Fighter.
I don't like or want to bring him up but yeah that's what I was referring to, I thought what he said wasn't smart and was ignorant(but most of what I see him post is that anyway hence why I ignore him in general) because VF has always been seen as a harder game to get into because of how the game's mechanics are far less gimmicky and more bare bones and to the point unlike day DOA. DOA has always had comeback gimmicks like danger zones and now the break system and whether people think it's depending on a good read, holds and the other types of defensive parries are tehnically comeback mechanics for even new players since you don't really need to make a smart read, a new player who is completely confused can mash the right hold and get easy damage from it without even knowing what was coming.

VF doesn't have that besides the specific reversals and parries that some characters either have or don't like Pai, and none of the characters imo are generally beginner friendly since they all have a sort of unique element that adds difficulty like the stance transitions, on hit moves and I think some characters like Sarah even have multi hitting moves that need to be timed properly, basically every character imo in VF has a learning curve of some sort. Ring outs I can see as a comeback but only some stages have it and it's also possible to easily ring out yourself too

And yeah, newer players I think are hesitant to try VF because the game doesn't cuddle you or have anything really to help narrow it down although the tutorial imo is really good and I learned alot about the game I didn't know before because of it. Other games don't really have that same stigma with them because they usually are easier to play and have simple mechanics to help out, even SF has those new defensive mechanics they recently added and there's plenty of characters who are more than easy to use, same with SC and DOA too as of late and Tekken also(although I think it's also somewhat steeper to learn depending on how you slice it) since Tekken had Leroy and Fahk who were very stupid easy characters to win with and some characters like Julia and Xiaoyu are leagues ahead of characters like Lili even tho they have far more to work with and don't really have much weaknesses while a Lili would struggle.
 

Force_of_Nature

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I don't like or want to bring him up but yeah that's what I was referring to, I thought what he said wasn't smart and was ignorant(but most of what I see him post is that anyway hence why I ignore him in general) because VF has always been seen as a harder game to get into because of how the game's mechanics are far less gimmicky and more bare bones and to the point unlike day DOA. DOA has always had comeback gimmicks like danger zones and now the break system and whether people think it's depending on a good read, holds and the other types of defensive parries are tehnically comeback mechanics for even new players since you don't really need to make a smart read, a new player who is completely confused can mash the right hold and get easy damage from it without even knowing what was coming.

VF doesn't have that besides the specific reversals and parries that some characters either have or don't like Pai, and none of the characters imo are generally beginner friendly since they all have a sort of unique element that adds difficulty like the stance transitions, on hit moves and I think some characters like Sarah even have multi hitting moves that need to be timed properly, basically every character imo in VF has a learning curve of some sort. Ring outs I can see as a comeback but only some stages have it and it's also possible to easily ring out yourself too

And yeah, newer players I think are hesitant to try VF because the game doesn't cuddle you or have anything really to help narrow it down although the tutorial imo is really good and I learned alot about the game I didn't know before because of it. Other games don't really have that same stigma with them because they usually are easier to play and have simple mechanics to help out, even SF has those new defensive mechanics they recently added and there's plenty of characters who are more than easy to use, same with SC and DOA too as of late and Tekken also(although I think it's also somewhat steeper to learn depending on how you slice it) since Tekken had Leroy and Fahk who were very stupid easy characters to win with and some characters like Julia and Xiaoyu are leagues ahead of characters like Lili even tho they have far more to work with and don't really have much weaknesses while a Lili would struggle.

TBH, the reason why most people don't want to learn VF is that despite being more difficult to get into, it provides basically no casual appeal whatsoever. VF5US's difficulty to learn is perfectly fair and balanced. The game is heavily system mechanical & match-up knowledge based, though gets balanced out by the smaller roster of only 19 characters (I.e you can focus on developing your character and roster match-up easier than, say... Tekken 7). The command training and frame data box are good too.

A big issue with VF5US is that the game doesn't do enough to hold casuals' interest or to motivate them to want to improve at the game. DOA6 has Combo Challenges & Quest Mode for instance (along with a crapton of unlockables), on top of the excellent prolific tutorial modes, and Move Details box. Tekken 7 has a crapton of sample combos, and Treasure battle to unlock stuff. SCVI has an excellent Libra of souls RPG mode (on top of an excellent character creation mode). It also doesn't help that something like DOA6 & SCVI look miles better than VF5US (Tekken 7 admittedly looks kinda meh). Releasing on just PS4 limited appeal even further.
 

KasumiLover

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TBH, the reason why most people don't want to learn VF is that despite being more difficult to get into, it provides basically no casual appeal whatsoever. VF5US's difficulty to learn is perfectly fair and balanced. The game is heavily system mechanical & match-up knowledge based, though gets balanced out by the smaller roster of only 19 characters (I.e you can focus on developing your character and roster match-up easier than, say... Tekken 7). The command training and frame data box are good too.

A big issue with VF5US is that the game doesn't do enough to hold casuals' interest or to motivate them to want to improve at the game. DOA6 has Combo Challenges & Quest Mode for instance (along with a crapton of unlockables), on top of the excellent prolific tutorial modes, and Move Details box. Tekken 7 has a crapton of sample combos, and Treasure battle to unlock stuff. SCVI has an excellent Libra of souls RPG mode (on top of an excellent character creation mode). It also doesn't help that something like DOA6 & SCVI look miles better than VF5US (Tekken 7 admittedly looks kinda meh). Releasing on just PS4 limited appeal even further.
Yeah I think the difficulty to learn is balanced but besides that the game doesn't appeal to newcomers because it doesn't have the casual elements that appeal to them; the game doesn't really have a story or connections in game, the modes are usually just the vanilla stuff and the customization is good, but besides that there's not really any super appeal to new players, I myself only got in VF5 when I was 11 and when I played a demo, and back then the game did have that quest mode but even that was basic xD the training mode is fine imo too, although they could have offered maybe some in game rewards to complete the command training, and they kinda slacked with only making the harder moves be viewable if you want to see an example, and the game lacks sample combos to go by but that's ok since I usually just teach myself but for new players the short ones they offer aren't all that, but the tutorial imo is good

I think in general Sega caters more to their serious player base since they focus more on balance and such than anything else which makes sense since that's the main crop who buys their game. Visually the game is better than vanilla 5 but it's mainly the stages, the characters at times look awkward and rough like Sarah looks weirdly shaped at times and her head seems a bit small but VF has always tried to go for realism so eh, even Tekken imo looks generally better and their models look rougher xD But like I said way back Sega probably doesn't know what they want to do with the game now anyway, they haven't even made balance changes, so I don't think they should even think about a VF6 unless they are gonna make some noteworthy changes to characters and juggles and maybe other mechanics
 

Derock

Well-Known Member
Yeah I think the difficulty to learn is balanced but besides that the game doesn't appeal to newcomers because it doesn't have the casual elements that appeal to them; the game doesn't really have a story or connections in game, the modes are usually just the vanilla stuff and the customization is good, but besides that there's not really any super appeal to new players, I myself only got in VF5 when I was 11 and when I played a demo, and back then the game did have that quest mode but even that was basic xD the training mode is fine imo too, although they could have offered maybe some in game rewards to complete the command training, and they kinda slacked with only making the harder moves be viewable if you want to see an example, and the game lacks sample combos to go by but that's ok since I usually just teach myself but for new players the short ones they offer aren't all that, but the tutorial imo is good

On bolded, funny as you said that but a big problem with that is that there is a story but SEGA doesn't want to dive into it deeply so we can see the connections and motives and its there in the manuals of the previous games and/or supplemental materials. And we had taken other media, i.e. the anime, to consideration that did give us a story back in VF2 with certain liberties and following shonen tropes (Akira being a "Crouching Moron, Hidden Badass" and heavy eater and Pai being a Tsundere).

The following is the supposed VF storyline:

-The main antagonist is a group called Judgment 6/J6 (I believed the group names are based on tarot cards), the ones who kidnapped Kage-maru's mother, Tsuchikage, and turn her into Dural and started the V-Dural production. They also kidnapped the following characters into assassins:
  1. Sarah, before the events, she was investigating Jacky's car accident but was then kidnapped. During VF1 and 2, they made her into an assassin to kill Jacky but failed. Jacky succeeded in saving her after 2. By 3 onward, Sarah, recovering from the amnesia, still has the desire to defeat her brother in combat, guessing to be the better sibling, while helping him taking down J6.
  2. Vanessa, she was adopted by a man named Lewis, in which she adopted his last name but the man was killed. She was hired as a bodyguard for Sarah during 4 but then was suddenly kidnapped during the event. Before 5, it seems she doesn't have any memory of what happened and trying to find out why.
  3. Goh, he was kidnapped as a child and made into an assassin from that point. However, he failed his assignments but knows someone is out there to kill him.
  4. Jean, he was Lion's friend that was later kidnapped and became an assassin.
- This usually involved Kage as a major protagonist (along with Jacky and Sarah) as stated before, he is desperately trying to save his mother. He succeeded after winning the 3rd Tournament but the effects of being Dural did a total to his mother's health. Then she was kidnapped again in 4 and when he fought Dural in 4, found out that Dural was a fake.

- Shun's storyline is that he's looking for a missing student of his who got involved with J6, keep leaving him cryptic messages.

- Lion's storyline involved with his father being in cahoots with J6. Also not realizing his friend, Jean, is a killer assassin.

- Akira, unfortunately is never involved in the main plot, despite being the "Ryu" of the series. However, he is a major rival for Kage since 3.

- Same with Pai and Lau as it is always a family drama. Before the events, Lau was obsessed of perfecting his Koen-ken techniques, abandoning his family, with his wife died of overwork. Pai was pissed off with him about that, however she's stayed in Hong Kong and began her successful career as an action movie star. During the tournaments, Pai lost to her father 3 times (her canon win is against Jeffrey in 2). Before 4, Lau developed an incurable disease and began looking for a successor. Pai believed she can become his successor but eventually, he chose Lei-Fei, not knowing that the monk was sent to kill him! It almost happened if Pai hadn't intervened. And Eileen is just a fangirl for Pai.

- Wolf is a friendly rival with Akira. In 3 and 4 events, he was receiving weird dreams of an bad event that was about to happen but never came into fruition around 5, as he's now became a rival to El Blaze.

-Aoi is childhood friends with Akira but she got her ass whooped by Brad, who is a ladies' man, in 4. She was the one who invited him to the 5th tournament to try to beat him (or become a tsundere/love interest to him).

- Jeffrey's storyline ALWAYS involve with a shark. I can't remember but I think something happened to the shark and J6 got involved, and he was PISSED!

Forgot Taka-Arashi, but I think it's involved with sumo promotion.

Here's the official tournament winners of the games:
VF1 - Lau
VF2 - Akira
VF3 - Kage
VF4 - I believed its Shun, as the final round was Kage Vs. Shun but then *Dural* intervened.
 
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KasumiLover

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On bolded, funny as you said that but a big problem with that is that there is a story but SEGA doesn't want to dive into it deeply so we can see the connections and motives and its there in the manuals of the previous games and/or supplemental materials. And we had taken other media, i.e. the anime, to consideration that did give us a story back in VF2 with certain liberties and following shonen tropes (Akira being a "Crouching Moron, Hidden Badass" and heavy eater and Pai being a Tsundere).

The following is the supposed VF storyline:

-The main antagonist is a group called Judgment 6/J6 (I believed the group names are based on tarot cards), the ones who kidnapped Kage-maru's mother, Tsuchikage, and turn her into Dural and started the V-Dural production. They also kidnapped the following characters into assassins:
  1. Sarah, before the events, she was investigating Jacky's car accident but was then kidnapped. During VF1 and 2, they made her into an assassin to kill Jacky but failed. Jacky succeeded in saving her after 2. By 3 onward, Sarah, recovering from the amnesia, still has the desire to defeat her brother in combat, guessing to be the better sibling, while helping him taking down J6.
  2. Vanessa, she was adopted by a man named Lewis, in which she adopted his last name but the man was killed. She was hired as a bodyguard for Sarah during 4 but then was suddenly kidnapped during the event. Before 5, it seems she doesn't have any memory of what happened and trying to find out why.
  3. Goh, he was kidnapped as a child and made into an assassin from that point. However, he failed his assignments but knows someone is out there to kill him.
  4. Jean, he was Lion's friend that was later kidnapped and became an assassin.
- This usually involved Kage as a major protagonist (along with Jacky and Sarah) as stated before, he is desperately trying to save his mother. He succeeded after winning the 3rd Tournament but the effects of being Dural did a total to his mother's health. Then she was kidnapped again in 4 and when he fought Dural in 4, found out that Dural was a fake.

- Shun's storyline is that he's looking for a missing student of his who got involved with J6, keep leaving him cryptic messages.

- Lion's storyline involved with his father being in cahoots with J6. Also not realizing his friend, Jean, is a killer assassin.

- Akira, unfortunately is never involved in the main plot, despite being the "Ryu" of the series. However, he is a major rival for Kage since 3.

- Same with Pai and Lau as it is always a family drama. Before the events, Lau was obsessed of perfecting his Koen-ken techniques, abandoning his family, with his wife died of overwork. Pai was pissed off with him about that, however that when she's stayed in Hong Kong and began her successful career as an action movie star. During the tournaments, Pai lost to her father 3 times (her canon win is against Jeffrey in 2). Before 4, Lau developed an incurable disease and began looking for a successor. Pai believed she can become his successor but eventually, he chose Lei-Fei, not knowing that the monk was sent to kill him! It almost happened if Pai hadn't intervened. And Eileen is just a fangirl for Pai.

- Wolf is a friendly rival with Akira. In 3 and 4 events, he was receiving weird dreams of an bad event that was about to happen but never came into fruition around 5, as he's now became a rival to El Blaze.

-Aoi is childhood friends with Akira but she got her ass whooped by Brad, who is a ladies' man, in 4. She was the one who invited him to the 5th tournament to try to beat him (or become a tsundere/love interested to him).

- Jeffrey's storyline ALWAYS involve with a shark. I can't remember but I think something happened to the shark and J6 got involved, and he was PISSED!

Forgot Taka-Arashi, but I think it's involved with sumo promotion.

Here's the official tournament winners of the games:
VF1 - Lau
VF2 - Akira
VF3 - Kage
VF4 - I believed its Shun, as the final round was Kage Vs. Shun but then *Dural* intervened.
Yeah I know the story lore and all of that but you wouldn't know the story unless you actually read the manuals that come with the game or Google it which is VFs problem xD with Tekken and SF and SC they have dedicated modes to the story and characters even interact with one another but in VF that's not the case which I meant, the story in VF just feels artificial and hollow imo since it's not followed in game, the game's intros are really the only way I can get some substance of a story since once you get past the main menu and select your character, it's like the lore and story go out the window xD

I hope in VF they make a dedicated story mode so we can actually see what happens instead of reading a manual to see what's occured but I doubt it, especially if they keep reusing the old voice clips since I doubt they'll be able to get all the VAs to reprise their roles, but they could actually work on getting new VAs since most of the English ones in VF suck imo, Sarah is the only character who speaks English that has a good performance, Brad and Blaze sound cheesy and Lion and Jacky sound campy at times. Vanessa idk, her old VA clips just tries too hard to sound tough and it doesn't mesh well with her new VA who tones down the aggression but it's way too obvious they changed her voice. And I find it weird they haven't invested in more hurt/damage voice clips, everyone only has one and that is jarring when other fighters have at least a dozen different grunts and pain sounds for their fighters
 

Derock

Well-Known Member
I hope in VF they make a dedicated story mode so we can actually see what happens instead of reading a manual to see what's occured but I doubt it, especially if they keep reusing the old voice clips since I doubt they'll be able to get all the VAs to reprise their roles, but they could actually work on getting new VAs since most of the English ones in VF suck imo, Sarah is the only character who speaks English that has a good performance, Brad and Blaze sound cheesy and Lion and Jacky sound campy at times. Vanessa idk, her old VA clips just tries too hard to sound tough and it doesn't mesh well with her new VA who tones down the aggression but it's way too obvious they changed her voice. And I find it weird they haven't invested in more hurt/damage voice clips, everyone only has one and that is jarring when other fighters have at least a dozen different grunts and pain sounds for their fighters

Actually, last year, I brought up (not on this thread) that there ARE hurt/damage voice clips for all of the characters and these was hidden since 4. There were bunch of hidden quotes (and this was coming from listening to Pai and Sarah's files). If your remember VF4, the voice direction wanted Pai's VA, Minami Takayama, to sound like "an old/mature woman". They used her VF3 battle grunts but hidden in VF5, there were battle grunts for "the old woman" tone and even certain quotes using the regular tone (VF3 and VF5). Sarah had 3 VAs and was using VF3 battle grunts with a mixture of VF5 but there are hidden voice grunts by her VA from 4.

EDIT: Interesting enough about the story, for those who played Project X Zone, Akira and Pai knew about J6 and the V-Dural Project. Kage joined the sequel in 2.
 
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VirtuaKazama

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Actually, last year, I brought up (not on this thread) that there ARE hurt/damage voice clips for all of the characters and these was hidden since 4. There were bunch of hidden quotes (and this was coming from listening to Pai and Sarah's files). If your remember VF4, the voice direction wanted Pai's VA, Minami Takayama, to sound like "an old/mature woman". They used her VF3 battle grunts but hidden in VF5, there were battle grunts for "the old woman" tone and even certain quotes using the regular tone (VF3 and VF5). Sarah had 3 VAs and was using VF3 battle grunts with a mixture of VF5 but there are hidden voice grunts by her VA from 4.

EDIT: Interesting enough about the story, for those who played Project X Zone, Akira and Pai knew about J6 and the V-Dural Project. Kage joined the sequel in 2.

In addition to that, VF4 was supposed to be more story-oriented since it had a lot of hidden audio clips that was meant for that. It was cut since they were running out of time during development because they were trying to get VF.Net working.
 

VirtuaKazama

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This was just announced today through TGS 2021. More customization items are coming to VF5US.

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DestructionBomb

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As @VirtuaKazama said, ring-outs are the comeback mechanic but its risky like Soul Calibur's ring-outs
Technically, the only comeback mechanic that VF has are ring-outs.

Just passed by and recently checked the posts, but ring outs were never really considered comeback mechanics by the way. Both players have access to it that is not tied to a threshold or a requirement to a specific player.

A comeback mechanic is battle flags that triggers in the form of a mechanic that either -benefits them specifically- or -losing player removes something on the opposite player-, and not the player who's on the life lead / winning. Reason for this is because the winning player also has access to the ring out feature, doesn't favor anyone based on triggering a battle flag. If the winning player doesn't have access to it and only the losing player does where the ring gates would only open for that specific player then essentially it would be labeled as a comeback mechanic, or rather comeback feature considering ring outs are always active and not having to trigger something in battle as a flag.

If you meant in a -general- sense, a player could "comeback" from close to dying via a ring out, but the feature is also allowed for the winning player. In history for technicality, ring outs were never considered actual comeback mechanics. Obviously it's common to comeback from losing using ring outs, but it was never technically labeled as that because winning players did it too even with health leads.

(unless there was a game where the winning player doesn't have access to it until they also trigger the requirements to do it as well).
 
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VirtuaKazama

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Just passed by and recently checked the posts, but ring outs were never really considered comeback mechanics by the way. Both players have access to it that is not tied to a threshold or a requirement to a specific player.

A comeback mechanic is battle flags that triggers in the form of a mechanic that either -benefits them specifically- or -losing player removes something on the opposite player-, and not the player who's on the life lead / winning. Reason for this is because the winning player also has access to the ring out feature, doesn't favor anyone based on triggering a battle flag. If the winning player doesn't have access to it and only the losing player does where the ring gates would only open for that specific player then essentially it would be labeled as a comeback mechanic, or rather comeback feature considering ring outs are always active and not having to trigger something in battle as a flag.

If you meant in a -general- sense, a player could "comeback" from close to dying via a ring out, but the feature is also allowed for the winning player. In history for technicality, ring outs were never considered actual comeback mechanics. Obviously it's common to comeback from losing using ring outs, but it was never technically labeled as that because winning players did it too even with health leads.

(unless there was a game where the winning player doesn't have access to it until they also trigger the requirements to do it as well).

...yeah, I can't argue with that. I was gonna say something, but yeah.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention: VF3tb is on Fightcade with Rollback Netcode. The rollback for this game is amazing from my understanding and it comes with a command list provided by VFDC.
 
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