Characters Thoughts on the ninjas?

Argentus

Well-Known Member
I dont know against which people you play btw where you from or which platform but it depends always how strong your opponent with the character.

It's more the fact that if I lose to a christie, its because they were good/outplayed me/I misread the counters. They got a legit win.

Whereas when I lose to say, kasumi, hayabusa or ayane, its because I'm held in the air for 5 seconds every time they land a jab, spamming unreadable teleports, or op buzzsaw juggle nonsense, respectively. Just pure bs, where I can't even move, let alone fight back.
 

Nate

Active Member
Hayate is a red mage. Knows a little white magic, knows a little black magic; excels at neither, and has some parlor tricks of his own. He's not your tank, he's not your DPS... yup, not the healer, either. He's just... THAT GUY. His attacks are plain and post-block/hit it's easy for an opponent to evaluate the situation, unlike other characters/ninjas, with lots of fancy footplay. Give Hayate an OH... like make 236T an OH... ;)
 

Nameless Sama

Well-Known Member
For me are the Ninjas in the safe zone because If I think about very good Helena Players ......... Helena is going to my nerves I mean she my nr1 hate character. Kokoro and Rachel are coming next her.
 

Jyakotu

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Kasumi is boring. Ryu is cool looking, but annoying to fight. Hayate is plain as well and Ein is much cooler. Ayane is the best ninja.
 

Brute

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Kasumi is boring. Ryu is cool looking, but annoying to fight. Hayate is plain as well and Ein is much cooler. Ayane is the best ninja.
Ryu more annoying to fight than Ayane? I don't think that's a very popular opinion, lol
 

Jyakotu

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Ryu more annoying to fight than Ayane? I don't think that's a very popular opinion, lol
Yes, I hate fighting Ryu the most because I'm the most unfamiliar with him and I run into a lot of terrible Ryus. Most PS3 players use the no mix-up mix-up on me and I somehow fall for it. I know what to expect with Ayane, even if the player is godly with her. Lol
 

Chapstick

Well-Known Member
Kasumi is boring. Ryu is cool looking, but annoying to fight. Hayate is plain as well and Ein is much cooler. Ayane is the best ninja.
Kasumi and Hayate are indeed pretty plain, but I think Kasumi's continuing history of suffering (it's like they hate their own poster girl) gives her a reason to be. She's quiet but strong because she needs to be as a runaway ninja and the times she does show emotions, it's her built up desperation or anger coming out. That's how I see it, but she's one of my faves so it could be me reading too much into everything.
 

FatalxInnocence

Well-Known Member
That's like saying it's naive to believe that Anakin was seduced by the dark side based only on the Star Wars movies, despite an absurd amount of overwhelming evidence pointing to that.

DOATEC clones Kasumi and messes with Hayate likely because of their association with Raidou, who was from the Mugen Tenshin, not Hayabusa clan. Or because let's be real for a minute: those dumbshits couldn't capture Ryu if they tried. He is called "The Singular Super Ninja," as in he's the only one. He canonically whoops Kasumi's ass. He can come back from the dead. I'm not sure what other evidence you need. It sounds like you're just a Kasumi fanboy who doesn't want to admit that Ryu is obviously far more powerful canonically (and yes, I'm a Ryu fanboy, but seriously, the intrinsic and extrinsic evidence all points to him being the most badass ninja ever).


*5 years later*

Ahahahaha, Sorry been a little busy lately. I'm a Kokoro fanboy actually =P but I know she's not the strongest in DOA universe. I wouldn't even bother attempting to argue that point. I wouldn't argue Hayate or Ayane being the strongest either, but you're cutting Kasumi severely short. Whether or not people find her boring, there is no evidence against her being "Far less powerful".

But like I stated, if they've labelled Ryu as the strongest ( Officially, and not some cheesy title like "Singular super ninja" cause let's be real, super doesn't mean the best. *cough* superman *cough* ) then yes, you're right.
 

Brute

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Of course I'm right. Hayabusa is a walking pillar of badass, OP ninja. No equals or superiors. Singular Super Ninja.
 

AkaShocka

Well-Known Member
My opinion is a DOA without Ryu is like a trash. I cant imagine A DOA game without Izuna Drops adn ryu of course
-_-
DOA would be a lot better without Ryu. He has his own game he can stay there.

Anyway. I do agree that the ninjas have the total advantage over the other characters. Now don't come out me with the "OMG Leifang, Christie etc can do that too!" because Leifang and Christie don't teleport and they don't jump over you. Leifang has the Unshu and Christie has the jakhehio. Ok, Leifang Unshu parries and Christie's jakhehio evades very well. The ninjas (most likely talking about Kasumi and Ryu right here) can teleport right behind you, rape your back, and launch and do a half life combo. You can SS everything out of Leifang's Unshu (not the grab) and you'll be ok. Christie, pretty much everything from the jak is unsafe so thats a free throw punish. I'm not saying throw punish is the best option (which it pretty much is if you're the slower character with less tools) against Christie and the jakhehio because she goes up and down and is hard to read. But how many people play Christie correctly anyway? Meanwhile, Kasumi and Ryu teleport right behind you and get like twenty hundred guaranteed things. Ryu has the Izuna drop which they all spam "because its cool!" -_-.

Ayane and Hayate aren't all that bad to be honest. Ayane is just good at making you whiff moves and holds, thats the only annoying thing about her. Hayate just has good pressure and spacing, he isn't that bad also. Plus he's unsafe as hell so thats a plus.
Also the ninjas have like 2 or 3 holds that throw you into the stratosphere and get a kill combo and shit off of it.
 

UpSideDownGRUNT

Well-Known Member
A DOA game without Hayabusa is like having a DOA game without Kasumi. He was a part of the original cast and the original Ninja next to Kasumi a DOA game without either of those two characters just simply wouldn't be DOA.

Although tbf Hayabusa wasn't even originally supposed to be Hayabusa xD
 

KingGhidorah

Well-Known Member
-_-
DOA would be a lot better without Ryu. He has his own game he can stay there.

Anyway. I do agree that the ninjas have the total advantage over the other characters. Now don't come out me with the "OMG Leifang, Christie etc can do that too!" because Leifang and Christie don't teleport and they don't jump over you. Leifang has the Unshu and Christie has the jakhehio. Ok, Leifang Unshu parries and Christie's jakhehio evades very well. The ninjas (most likely talking about Kasumi and Ryu right here) can teleport right behind you, rape your back, and launch and do a half life combo. You can SS everything out of Leifang's Unshu (not the grab) and you'll be ok. Christie, pretty much everything from the jak is unsafe so thats a free throw punish. I'm not saying throw punish is the best option (which it pretty much is if you're the slower character with less tools) against Christie and the jakhehio because she goes up and down and is hard to read. But how many people play Christie correctly anyway? Meanwhile, Kasumi and Ryu teleport right behind you and get like twenty hundred guaranteed things. Ryu has the Izuna drop which they all spam "because its cool!" -_-.

Ayane and Hayate aren't all that bad to be honest. Ayane is just good at making you whiff moves and holds, thats the only annoying thing about her. Hayate just has good pressure and spacing, he isn't that bad also. Plus he's unsafe as hell so thats a plus.
Also the ninjas have like 2 or 3 holds that throw you into the stratosphere and get a kill combo and shit off of it.

Only ninja I honestly almost loathe currently has to be Momiji. She seems to have it best as far as the ninja are concerned. Virtually everything she does is safe, so when you think it's safe to do something to retaliate Momiji's like "Bitch, get out." next thing you know, you're getting fucked hard in a combo that takes almost all your damn health.
 

AkaShocka

Well-Known Member
Only ninja I honestly almost loathe currently has to be Momiji. She seems to have it best as far as the ninja are concerned. Virtually everything she does is safe, so when you think it's safe to do something to retaliate Momiji's like "Bitch, get out." next thing you know, you're getting fucked hard in a combo that takes almost all your damn health.
Exactly. Thats what I mean. I didn't want to drag Momiji in because she pisses me all the way off. And you are right, everything she doe is safe. Safe and fast is terrible especially is you are using characters like Tina or Bass who are slow and rely more on throw punishes. But here come the people who use her "No, she is very unsafe and is actually slow, but her pressure makes her seem fast" I can't believe someone said that to me. Its annoying when I'm Christie with a 9 frame jab but Momiji's jab always beats me. Christie's jakhehio is most useful vs Momiji when Momiji is doing that jumping shit.
Momiji is annoying as hell. I agree with you. She never calms the fuck down either. Due to everything she has is safe, anyone can literally spam with her a get away with it. Christie and Kasumi spammers get throw punish easily, but Momiji spammers...........

People complain about Rachel but Rachel isn't all that bad. Rachel lacks a bit in tracking and she is slow. Aisde from that Rachel can't space well. Rachel isn't even all that bad. But hey, if it isn't a character without an Izuna drop or bullshit frames to get away with, no one likes the character.
 

Brute

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I do agree that the ninjas have the total advantage over the other characters.
Well, you're wrong. The ninjas have varying playstyles and advantages/disadvantages, and are not universally above or below the roster at large.

Now don't come out me with the "OMG Leifang, Christie etc can do that too!" because Leifang and Christie don't teleport and they don't jump over you. Leifang has the Unshu and Christie has the jakhehio. Ok, Leifang Unshu parries and Christie's jakhehio evades very well. The ninjas (most likely talking about Kasumi and Ryu right here) can teleport right behind you, rape your back, and launch and do a half life combo.
Okay first of all, Ryu can teleport behind you one of two ways: 1) via a free teleport with insane recovery so that if you get hit by something from it you deserve any sort of shameful follow-up imaginable 2) Via the ongyoin parry, which also has a fair amount of recovery frames. Also, given that everyone crushes from BT and is a good bit away from you (having done an attack that you parried which provides them notable lurch more often than not) you're a good bit away and your fast mids don't possess a whole lot of range. Thus, you get nothing guaranteed off of it. The best follow-up I've seen used consistently is 33P4 which is not going to net you a half-life combo (or anything close, unless the environment is really helping you out). From that you evade high/mid, as long as your timing is good.
Christie evades all high, and mid-low non-tracking, and has a bunch of mix-ups. If you evade an attack with JK you can get a solid punish consistently, unlike Ryu's gimmick parry. Such follow-ups include stuns and other dangerous set-ups. Lei Fang's got ridiculous stuff I won't get into.
As far as half-life combos go, sans environment, PBs, PLs, etc. Ryu has no NH half-life combos. Can he net more than Christie? Probably (a Christie main can correct me; Ryu gets about 138 max with incredibly impractical set-ups). Now, BT options do net the CH options, but so will JK evade-bait punishing. And, considering Ryu's speed and mix-up options, he should net higher damage than Christie and Lei-fang. It would be absurd if he didn't.

You can SS everything out of Leifang's Unshu (not the grab) and you'll be ok. Christie, pretty much everything from the jak is unsafe so thats a free throw punish. I'm not saying throw punish is the best option (which it pretty much is if you're the slower character with less tools) against Christie and the jakhehio because she goes up and down and is hard to read.
Well duh if you're getting your JK stuff blocked it's unsafe, just like if your opponent turns around with Ryu's teleport and blocks you're gonna be unsafe. We're looking at consistent damage capability and Christie's JK has it, no doubt.

But how many people play Christie correctly anyway?
How many people play Ryu correctly?

Meanwhile, Kasumi and Ryu teleport right behind you and get like twenty hundred guaranteed things.
Oh please, enlighten me as to what options are guaranteed from Ryu's ongyoin parry. Seriously, I'm dying to know.

Ryu has the Izuna drop which they all spam "because its cool!" -_-.
Sure is. Suck it.

Ayane and Hayate aren't all that bad to be honest. Ayane is just good at making you whiff moves and holds, thats the only annoying thing about her. Hayate just has good pressure and spacing, he isn't that bad also. Plus he's unsafe as hell so thats a plus.
Kasumi is also unsafe as hell. So is Ryu, save for the ongyoin mix-up.
Ayane is good at way more than making you whiff. She has godly crushes, insane mix-up with strings, delays and cancels, gets solid damage off of minimal launches and is better at getting behind you than Ryu is. If you don't believe me, you need to fight better Ayane's. 6P9-type strings are everywhere, and her placement gives her better follow-ups. "She has recovery." SO DOES RYU! She also has holds and other junk that leave you BT. And, btw, also has a stratosphere launch (psst: so does Hayate). Hayate's got a whole bunch of mix-ups including... wait for it... A MOTHER-FUCKING TELEPORT THAT LEAVES YOU BT.

"Oh, Ryu and Kasumi have a total advantage over the other characters. But Ayane and Hayate don't. They're fine."
C'mon man, cut the bullshit.

Also the ninjas have like 2 or 3 holds that throw you into the stratosphere and get a kill combo and shit off of it.
I know you're exaggerating for dramatic effect, but that's exactly why your argument sucks. Ryu's getting about 80 damage off of a "stratosphere launch," which is less than 1/3 of the damage you were talking about. When you stop exaggerating, all this stuff you complain about just don't seem that ridiculous.
 

AkaShocka

Well-Known Member
"Oh, Ryu and Kasumi have a total advantage over the other characters. But Ayane and Hayate don't. They're fine."
C'mon man, cut the bullshit.
Let me take care of this right here. Aside from Momiji, Ayane pisses me off the most from all the ninjas. I always gets upset about Hayate but he isn't that annoying. The teleporting is the one thing that makes me mad about Kasumi and Ryu. Ayane's everything pisses me off. You are right, I've should of gone into more detail about that but I didn't. My bad. I already made about 3 or 4 Ayane complaints and I'm not going back into it.

Well duh if you're getting your JK stuff blocked it's unsafe, just like if your opponent turns around with Ryu's teleport and blocks you're gonna be unsafe. We're looking at consistent damage capability and Christie's JK has it, no doubt.
How many times has anyone ever made a successful turn around after Ryu got behind them successfully and they didn't get to turn around due to the fact he got behind them as they were doing a string? This happened to me many times. I'm in the middle of a string and he goes behind me. What am i suppose to do? Randomly turn around after finishing a string that has 4 or 5 hits and hit him before he hits me or punishes me? He already got behind me on hit 3 so I'm suppose to magically know he was going to do it then? Kasumi, the same thing. Now its different if they teleport behind me on the last hit of a string. I have done strings that put me in BT and Ryu teleported and he didn't hit me first. But there are only so many strings like that and it will rarely happen.

Sure is. Suck it.
Hm. But when online players abuse normal throws its an issue. Weird.


I know you're exaggerating for dramatic effect, but that's exactly why your argument sucks. Ryu's getting about 80 damage off of a "stratosphere launch," which is less than 1/3 of the damage you were talking about. When you stop exaggerating, all this stuff you complain about just don't seem that ridiculous.
I agree with you on this 100%. I do seem to exaggerate a lot. But I'm was meaning at the start of the match I do one hit and I'm thrown into the air and get a lot of damage taken off. Then if I decide to do a wake up, that gets me thrown hit up too. This actually happened before. I was playing a Kasumi player (PANICITSTYLOR) and I started the match with a mid kick, got launch and did a wake up after he was done with it (yea its my fault knowing he just did a mid kick launch and got big damage and then doing a mid kick wake up) I did a mid k wake up and got the same thing. Panic usually doesn't play the wake up game so thats why I did the wake up, so it was really unexpected.

Kasumi is also unsafe as hell. So is Ryu, save for the ongyoin mix-up.
Ayane is good at way more than making you whiff. She has godly crushes, insane mix-up with strings, delays and cancels, gets solid damage off of minimal launches and is better at getting behind you than Ryu is. If you don't believe me, you need to fight better Ayane's. 6P9-type strings are everywhere, and her placement gives her better follow-ups. "She has recovery." SO DOES RYU! She also has holds and other junk that leave you BT. And, btw, also has a stratosphere launch (psst: so does Hayate). Hayate's got a whole bunch of mix-ups including... wait for it... A MOTHER-FUCKING TELEPORT THAT LEAVES YOU BT.
Kasumi and Christie are somewhat the same. Both fast, unsafe, mix ups, pressure etc etc. Kasumi has her teleport, jump thing, hoshninpo. Christie has the jakhehio. Both can crush very good and both are decent in the spacing game. Pretty much the same so far right? Now, when you fight a player who uses both of them correctly who will give you more trouble Kasumi or Christie? Kasumi due to her tools. She can jump over you, teleport behind you, her 66T T puts you in BT and she gets a free 6p6k (according to PANICITSTYLOR a Kasumi main) and can get a good launch off of that. Her hoshninpo evades highs. Christie's jakhehio evades all types of highs, tracking or not tracking. Thats about it and I think it evades a few tracking mids. In the spacing game, Christie only has a few options and a few things from her 3p+k. Kasumi has the hoshninpo and a few other things. They are pretty tied right here. Now, Kasumi has a mid kick hold that launches you high up and she can get good damage off of it. Same with her low kick hold. Christie's low p hold also throws you up high and she can get good damage off of it. They both have strings that put them in their stances. Like Kasumi's 9pk into hoshninpo and Christie's 6pp into jak. Now here's the tie breaker, Kasumi has the teleport parries and her normal teleport that just puts her behind you. That alone makes her harder to deal wit than Christie. Also, Kasumi has throws that give a decent launch. Christie doesn't. Kasumi also can backflip off of a wall and get damage from that. Christie can't do that, but thats just more of a extra thing just thrown in the game and is not actually dependable I believe.
 

Brute

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
Aside from Momiji, Ayane pisses me off the most from all the ninjas.
Ayane's everything pisses me off.
AkaShocka said:
Ayane and Hayate aren't all that bad to be honest.
I'm really confused about your placement/feelings on the ninjas now, but w/e xD

I always gets upset about Hayate but he isn't that annoying.
That's like an oxymoron. I don't see how a character making you upset is not annoying.

The teleporting is the one thing that makes me mad about Kasumi and Ryu.
It kinda makes me mad, too. I'd like to see Ryu with less gimmicky teleporting-type stuff and with more scary mix-ups for baits and opening people up. But from a gameplay perspective, Ryu's teleports aren't really Op or ridiculous. They're just annoying.

How many times has anyone ever made a successful turn around after Ryu got behind them successfully
A lot. lot lot lot.

they didn't get to turn around due to the fact he got behind them as they were doing a string? This happened to me many times. I'm in the middle of a string and he goes behind me.
As opposed to getting CH hit with a JK move or getting a guaranteed stun-hit from a Gen Fu/Lei Fang parry? You at least have the option to react very quickly, cancel your string and block/backdash/BT crush strike with Ryu's teleport. Those you don't get squat.

What am i suppose to do? Randomly turn around after finishing a string that has 4 or 5 hits and hit him before he hits me or punishes me? He already got behind me on hit 3 so I'm suppose to magically know he was going to do it then?
Not sure what you mean by this. He can't randomly teleport behind you on the third strike in a string since he can't block the preceding strikes whilst in ongyoin. You're supposed to take into account when he finishes one of his strikes and moves into ongyoin, his options become very slow, so he wants to bait that parry. You can risk a poke, or play it safe with a 2P. Or you can go for the HiC throw punish.
His ongyoin transitions come from very specific strings. Closest thing I can think of that you may be talking about is PP2K4H. That's really risky, though, and honestly most people would get a +NH low poke from that anyway. So having a super-unsafe move that I guess transitions for a mixup is not really a great option.

Hm. But when online players abuse normal throws its an issue. Weird.
Not sure what you mean here. I've never had an issue with 12 frame throws, since you're only going to get hit by them if you're hold spamming (which you can be buffered into with lag but that's a different issue), or just standing there doing nothing but holding the block button for an extended period of time.

I agree with you on this 100%. I do seem to exaggerate a lot. But I'm was meaning at the start of the match I do one hit and I'm thrown into the air and get a lot of damage taken off. Then if I decide to do a wake up, that gets me thrown hit up too. This actually happened before. I was playing a Kasumi player (PANICITSTYLOR) and I started the match with a mid kick, got launch and did a wake up after he was done with it (yea its my fault knowing he just did a mid kick launch and got big damage and then doing a mid kick wake up) I did a mid k wake up and got the same thing. Panic usually doesn't play the wake up game so thats why I did the wake up, so it was really unexpected.

Kasumi and Christie are somewhat the same. Both fast, unsafe, mix ups, pressure etc etc. Kasumi has her teleport, jump thing, hoshninpo. Christie has the jakhehio. Both can crush very good and both are decent in the spacing game. Pretty much the same so far right? Now, when you fight a player who uses both of them correctly who will give you more trouble Kasumi or Christie? Kasumi due to her tools. She can jump over you, teleport behind you, her 66T T puts you in BT and she gets a free 6p6k (according to PANICITSTYLOR a Kasumi main) and can get a good launch off of that. Her hoshninpo evades highs. Christie's jakhehio evades all types of highs, tracking or not tracking. Thats about it and I think it evades a few tracking mids. In the spacing game, Christie only has a few options and a few things from her 3p+k. Kasumi has the hoshninpo and a few other things. They are pretty tied right here. Now, Kasumi has a mid kick hold that launches you high up and she can get good damage off of it. Same with her low kick hold. Christie's low p hold also throws you up high and she can get good damage off of it. They both have strings that put them in their stances. Like Kasumi's 9pk into hoshninpo and Christie's 6pp into jak. Now here's the tie breaker, Kasumi has the teleport parries and her normal teleport that just puts her behind you. That alone makes her harder to deal wit than Christie. Also, Kasumi has throws that give a decent launch. Christie doesn't. Kasumi also can backflip off of a wall and get damage from that. Christie can't do that, but thats just more of a extra thing just thrown in the game and is not actually dependable I believe.
I don't know Kasumi well enough to comment. I was just talking about Hayabusa.
If she does indeed get guaranteed damage off of hers, that's crazy. That makes her teleport options much scarier than Ryu's (I mean it would anyway given her speed/lurch and the fact that it's a standard parry rather than an awkward stance one).
 

AkaShocka

Well-Known Member
I'm really confused about your placement/feelings on the ninjas now, but w/e xD
That's like an oxymoron. I don't see how a character making you upset is not annoying.
I meant "he's not that annoying" as in he doesn't annoy me as much as Ryu and Kasumi do. I do need to be more specific but my English isn't the best. I just get lucky because my iPad corrects my writing. I was trying to say Ayane and Hayate don't get on my nerves like Ryu and Kasumi. I am sorry for not being clear there. [/quote]


Not sure what you mean by this. He can't randomly teleport behind you on the third strike in a string since he can't block the preceding strikes whilst in ongyoin. You're supposed to take into account when he finishes one of his strikes and moves into ongyoin, his options become very slow, so he wants to bait that parry. You can risk a poke, or play it safe with a 2P. Or you can go for the HiC throw punish.
His ongyoin transitions come from very specific strings. Closest thing I can think of that you may be talking about is PP2K4H. That's really risky, though, and honestly most people would get a +NH low poke from that anyway. So having a super-unsafe move that I guess transitions for a mixup is not really a great option.
I was saying i fought many Ryu's (Godly, Gill, Ryu7) and he teleported behind me while i was doing a string. I guess he did the input as I was doing the string? I don't know. All I know is he blocked 2 hit and teleported on hit 3. I was Christie vs Ryu7. I did 6pp jak pkp and he teleported at jak p.
 

Brute

Well-Known Member
Standard Donor
I was saying i fought many Ryu's (Godly, Gill, Ryu7) and he teleported behind me while i was doing a string. I guess he did the input as I was doing the string? I don't know. All I know is he blocked 2 hit and teleported on hit 3. I was Christie vs Ryu7. I did 6pp jak pkp and he teleported at jak p.
He blocked two hits and then parried the third? That's just impossible. One of three things could have happened:
1) The first two strikes whiffed, and the third would have snagged his hitbox but he was in ongyoin and parried.
2) All the strikes whiffed, and he used a free teleport from ongyoin around the time of your final strike to get behind you
3) The first two strikes were blocked, then you waited a century for him to freely enter ongyoin stance and do the parry

He can't block in ongyoin and the free transition is too slow to do mid-string. Those are really the only possibilities I can think of, beyond the game glitching out or something.
 
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