Anti-Rachel strats, tips, and tricks thread.

[Rikuto]

Her vortex is pretty linear and predictable, especially if they're trying to knock you down in one string.

It's not linear. All parts of her vortex track. The launch throw, the OH, 4PP, 1P, whatever. If Rachel is doing anything outside of these moves, then it is highly situational and probably unnecessary.

As for predictable, so what? Even if she does things in a 50/50 fashion, she supplements the odds in her favor by introducing random factors which are unnecessary, but favorable enough to justify even in a worst case scenario.

Hell, even her holds go into her blender. You gonna tell me you regularly have DOA matches where you don't get held? Shit can't be avoided.

Bitch broke, lulz.

 

[Rawbietussin]

She's slow? She seems rather faster for a super heavyweight than those guys who are placed with her in their weight class category, even faster than some of the middleweights too.

 

[Rikuto]

She is the fastest heavy in the game, bar none. And she has the best tracking, best throws, best holds, and best on-demand sit down stun. And a blender.

Nothing wrong with her character design though. Good for the game. Take it up the ass... for science!

 

[StrikerSashi]

Nothing would be wrong with the game if every character had tools that were as good as her's. I don't mind the okizeme at all. What I mind is that she can skip stun game entirely and still do good damage AND go back into that same oki situation.

 

[Rawbietussin]

And they say Sarah was broken, she lost her throne and tiara to the Vigoorian.

 

[iHajinShinobi]

Have you guys actually tried playing patiently against Rachel, at all? Yes, her vortex is troublesome but she has to hit you to even get this going. No one seems to be making her play out of her comfort zone yet (CQC) and seem to try staying so close when you can keep her at a distance to make her get impatient and throw shit at you to whiff or run in with 66K or 66P.

Also Genfu can fight every character in this game just fine now (including Rachel, Sarah and Helena).

Rachel is fearsome once the vortex has started but that's only when it's started.

 

[d3v]

It's not linear. All parts of her vortex track. The launch throw, the OH, 4PP, 1P, whatever. If Rachel is doing anything outside of these moves, then it is highly situational and probably unnecessary.

As for predictable, so what? Even if she does things in a 50/50 fashion, she supplements the odds in her favor by introducing random factors which are unnecessary, but favorable enough to justify even in a worst case scenario.

Hell, even her holds go into her blender. You gonna tell me you regularly have DOA matches where you don't get held? Shit can't be avoided.

Bitch broke, lulz.

That's still hella better than any real vortex in the games where the term came from. 50/50, how about 90/10 with Mags/Psylocke resets or 70/30 with most SSFIV vortexes.

 

[Rikuto]

Nothing would be wrong with the game if every character had tools that were as good as her's. I don't mind the okizeme at all. What I mind is that she can skip stun game entirely and still do good damage AND go back into that same oki situation.

Am I the only one who seems to disagree with this?

If every character could do what she could do, then yes it would be balanced.

It'd also be completely mindless. That is not a game I would play, ever. Not without throw breaks to keep that shit in check.

Not even VF, Tekken, or SC make that kind of wakeup situation a reality. I feel like people are embracing this dumb shit out of a desire to fit in or something. It is not a good thing.

That's still hella better than any real vortex in the games where the term came from. 50/50, how about 90/10 with Mags/Psylocke resets or 70/30 with most SSFIV vortexes.

2D fighters are played differently than 3D fighters. They are more reaction based and akin to physical sports. 3D fighters are more reliant on mind games with a reaction-based backbone. It's chess on steroids.

When you remove the chess aspect by introducing stuff like this, you run into problems. You can't hold it to the same standard because it isn't the same. If a vortex is going to exist in a proper 3D fighter there has to be some kind of reason it is there. Some justifiable reason it was earned, and why that character has access to it when other characters do not have it.

 

[d3v]

Am I the only one who seems to disagree with this?

If every character could do what she could do, then yes it would be balanced.

It'd also be completely mindless. That is not a game I would play, ever. Not without throw breaks to keep that shit in check.

Not even VF, Tekken, or SC make that kind of wakeup situation a reality. I feel like people are embracing this dumb shit out of a desire to fit in or something. It is not a good thing.

You got knocked down. You're supposed to be at a very big disadvantage when you get knocked down.

 

[Rikuto]

You got knocked down. You're supposed to be at a very big disadvantage when you get knocked down.

I play Astaroth. Are you seriously going to try and lecture me on ground game? Lots of people consider him ridiculous.

He isn't even close to this.

 

[SilverForte]

At least with astaroth you can break his throws.

 

[MasterHavik]

Is this a serious question? Practically everyone in the roster has safe lows on NH and all of Rachels lows are unsafe on block just like most of the cast. Of all the things to complain about, her lows being + on NH is one of the silliest ones.

He actually has a point......

 

[Rikuto]

At least with astaroth you can break his throws.

ding ding ding, you got it.

And one of his options, though painful as it may be, does NOT give him a favorable wakeup situation. Which is where mindgames come in.

Mindgames are absent here, which is why Rachel is a bullshit character. All roads lead to death.

 

[MasterHavik]

Man I kind of can't wait for TFc...will it be the game where Rachel walks over everyone...maybe gen fu...maybe alpha.

 

[Rikuto]

pfft. It'll be Bayman, obviously...

 

[d3v]

I play Astaroth. Are you seriously going to try and lecture me on ground game? Lots of people consider him ridiculous.

He isn't even close to this.

I mained Chun in 3S and Jin in T4. Are you seriously trying to lecture me on who is "broken?"

 

[MasterHavik]

pfft. It'll be Bayman, obviously...

you're the only one that uses him man.

 

[Brute]

Am I the only one who seems to disagree with this?

If every character could do what she could do, then yes it would be balanced.

It'd also be completely mindless. That is not a game I would play, ever. Not without throw breaks to keep that shit in check.

Finally someone came out and said this.

Fucking hell I was going to starve to death waiting for it.

 

[StrikerSashi]

I'm not saying I want every character to be an okizeme power house. I just want everyone to be good at what they do. I very much do NOT want okizeme on every character.

I play 2D, though, where 4 way mixups are a reality. Plus, I think of invisible mixups as mind games too.

 

[Rikuto]

I mained Chun in 3S and Jin in T4. Are you seriously trying to lecture me on who is "broken?"

3S is a 2D fighter so that checks, and Tekken 4 was universally hated for the very reasons you just described.

The things you are talking about here... they are not good in 3D fighters. They happen sometimes, but they are not something that is good unless there is a justifiable reason for them to be there. If the mind game is absent, everything falls apart.

In 2D fighters you can fall back on reflexes, or the failure of your opponents to save you from a bad matchup. You also tend to have much higher mobility in those games to shoulder the burden.

The noose is tighter in a 3D fighter. You can't hold it to the same standard for situations like these.